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Old 09-12-2012, 11:53 AM
Chris Bannister
 
Default Installation

On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 02:44:48PM +0200, lee wrote:
> Chris Bannister <cbannister@slingshot.co.nz> writes:
>
> > On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 09:06:33PM +0200, lee wrote:
> >>
> >> And where's the 40GB (or whatever size it is) Blueray image that has all
> >> the packages plus all the stuff from non-free plus a life system plus
> >> lots of documentation on it so that I can simply download that and boot
> >> and press a button and it just installs and works, without requiring
> >> internet access in the first place? --- The on-board ethernet card of my
> >> desktop doesn't work out of the box, so how the hell am I supposed to
> >> know what to do without a working computer that enables me to look for a
> >> solution?
> >>
> >
> > Mmmmm, now how much would you pay for that?
>
> Going by what they sold Suse in some book stores for many years ago, I
> would expect a price of about EUR 350--380 nowadays.

> If that was the only choice available, we'd just have to pay that.

Trouble is I forgot about the legalities of distributing non-free
software. IOW, lawyers fees may suck up any profit.


--
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the
oppressing." --- Malcolm X


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Old 09-12-2012, 12:11 PM
Andrei POPESCU
 
Default Installation

On Mi, 12 sep 12, 12:59:29, steef wrote:
> On 11-09-12 08:00, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
>
> >Unfortunately updates are turned off (of course), which makes those
> >systems easy prey for viruses/worms/etc. and they end up in botnets
>
> this is not true in my native tongue: dutch. i am in possession of a
> dvd with all hacked versions of W7, included all regular automated
> update_possibilities.

I stand corrected

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Old 09-12-2012, 12:33 PM
Chris Bannister
 
Default Installation

On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 04:19:35AM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> "If you want to rip audio CD's to MP3's with e.g. Sound Juicer, you want
> to have the "gstreamer0.10-lame" package from e.g.
> www.deb-multimedia.org." - http://wiki.debian.org/MultimediaCodecs

root@tal:~# apt-cache policy libmp3lame0
libmp3lame0:
Installed: 3.99.5+repack1-3
Candidate: 3.99.5+repack1-3
Version table:
*** 3.99.5+repack1-3 0
990 http://ftp.nz.debian.org/debian/ wheezy/main i386 Packages
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status

Although I had to jump through hoops to ensure the wheezy version was
installed instead of the 3rd party version.

(Just noticed it now when I was getting the info.)

Removing the repository is apparently not enough.

(Seems to be an abuse of epochs)

--
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the
oppressing." --- Malcolm X


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Old 09-12-2012, 12:57 PM
The Wanderer
 
Default Installation

On 09/12/2012 02:07 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:


On Ma, 11 sep 12, 12:29:42, Weaver wrote:


I am advocating the elimination of that lack of knowledge.


You are assuming the user is interested in learning. In my experience it is
rather the contrary.


While this is true, I suspect (based on my own experience) that even the sort of
user who isn't interested in learning is likely to be happier with seeing an
explanation than with being confused by a question they know nothing about.

Which is likely to be more off-putting to a user who's never heard of a
"partition" or a "filesystem" before: encountering a "now it's time to partition
your system" prompt with no explanation of what this means, or encountering one
with such an explanation?

Admittedly, not presenting the user with such a prompt at all would be less
off-putting than either, but we may not be able to avoid that unless we relegate
the ability to control partitioning/filesystems to the full expert install - and
there may well be people who would prefer to handle their own partitioning, but
would not be comfortable with all the details of the expert install process.

--
The Wanderer

Warning: Simply because I argue an issue does not mean I agree with any
side of it.

Every time you let somebody set a limit they start moving it.
- LiveJournal user antonia_tiger


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Old 09-12-2012, 01:35 PM
Andrei POPESCU
 
Default Installation

On Jo, 13 sep 12, 00:33:59, Chris Bannister wrote:
>
> Although I had to jump through hoops to ensure the wheezy version was
> installed instead of the 3rd party version.
>
> (Just noticed it now when I was getting the info.)
>
> Removing the repository is apparently not enough.

This will show you what else you have installed from it:

aptitude search ~S~i~Omultimedia

> (Seems to be an abuse of epochs)

Some think it is. IMVHO there is no reason to not have deb-multimedia
same as stable-backports, which is why I pin it to 100.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Old 09-12-2012, 01:55 PM
Andrei POPESCU
 
Default Installation

On Mi, 12 sep 12, 08:57:37, The Wanderer wrote:
>
> Admittedly, not presenting the user with such a prompt at all would be less
> off-putting than either, but we may not be able to avoid that unless we relegate
> the ability to control partitioning/filesystems to the full expert install - and
> there may well be people who would prefer to handle their own partitioning, but
> would not be comfortable with all the details of the expert install process.

One shortcut could be added: if the system has only one mass storage
device[1] display a simple prompt to choose between wiping everything
(and doing a all-in-one partition install without other questions asked)
or proceeding to partitioning as usual.

[1] more than one mass storage device can mean that the user has at
least some knowledge of partitions and also the risk of doing something
wrong is too big.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Old 09-12-2012, 02:08 PM
The Wanderer
 
Default Installation

On 09/12/2012 09:55 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:


On Mi, 12 sep 12, 08:57:37, The Wanderer wrote:


Admittedly, not presenting the user with such a prompt at all would be less
off-putting than either, but we may not be able to avoid that unless we
relegate the ability to control partitioning/filesystems to the full expert
install - and there may well be people who would prefer to handle their own
partitioning, but would not be comfortable with all the details of the
expert install process.


One shortcut could be added: if the system has only one mass storage
device[1] display a simple prompt to choose between wiping everything (and

doing a all-in-one partition install without other questions asked) or
proceeding to partitioning as usual.


But how do you phrase such a prompt so that it won't be confusing (or otherwise
off-putting) to our hypothetical "user who has no idea what a partition is"?

As I understand the discussion so far how to avoid putting off that hypothetical
user is precisely the issue at hand.


[1] more than one mass storage device can mean that the user has at least
some knowledge of partitions and also the risk of doing something wrong is
too big.


There's also the consideration that an "all in one partition" install isn't
necessarily the smartest thing in the first place - a separate /tmp/ at the very
least would seem like a good idea. But the question of what the default "the
user didn't want to handle partitioning at all" configuration should be is a
separate one, and I may not know as much about the subject as I think I do.

--
The Wanderer

Warning: Simply because I argue an issue does not mean I agree with any
side of it.

Every time you let somebody set a limit they start moving it.
- LiveJournal user antonia_tiger


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Old 09-12-2012, 02:21 PM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default Installation

On Wed, 2012-09-12 at 23:45 +1200, Chris Bannister wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 09:52:47PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > don't install German language packages. To post English output of
> > commands on a German mailing list wouldn't be good.
>
> Don't you mean German output?

That's what's needed for a German mailing list, but many mailing lists
are in English only. Just a few lists are in German.

> Anyway, to post English output if your locale is non-English, just
> prepend LC=C before the command.
>
> e.g % LC=C apt-cache policy zsh-beta

Yes, but how do I get German output, when I'm using English only? And
for GUI applications, how do I know what the menus are named etc.? I
would have to install language packages for each app. Why should I do
this? Just to join a German mailing list, with a small community, while
I anyway have to join many English mailing lists?

I tried to do the translation of Qtractor and perhaps I'll do it this
year or at the beginning of next year. However, I don't have much time
and it's very time consuming, because IMO many things are hard to
translate, the English words are much better, than German terms.

Regards,
Ralf

PS: libmp3lame0 is a replacement for gstreamer0.10-lame and it's in the
official repositories?


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Old 09-12-2012, 02:50 PM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default Installation

On Wed, 2012-09-12 at 09:09 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> "feel free to correct my English ...
... off-list"

Perhaps I'll add such a signature to mails I'll write in the future.
This is a good idea.

Regards,
Ralf



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Old 09-12-2012, 03:05 PM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default Installation

On Tue, 2012-09-11 at 23:16 -0400, Celejar wrote:
> Um, you snipped this line:
>
> "These extra packages provide support for a few rarely used codecs"

Even if you install all codecs that are available for Linux, you are not
able to join every video from the Internet.
Consumers need more codecs than are available for Linux. The "rarely" is
relatively.

> This hardly results in "a serious issue for all Linux distros".

Yes, consumers can't consume, but that's what they want.

> [snipped rest of message, which does not deal with actual codecs, but
> other software that some users may consider essential.]#

Yesno, there was also more about codecs. CD ripping!

Regards,
Ralf


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