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Old 05-16-2012, 12:19 AM
"Kevin O'Gorman"
 
Default Help! Steep learning curve ahead

I've got a web application that has been running in Apache for years
as a CGI program written mostly in Python.

I'm wanting to upgrade it to Ajax, and the main resource I have for
that is O'Reilly's book "Adding Ajax", which presents all examples
with PHP. I know nothing about PHP except the name and that it's
server side stuff embedded in the web pages. I know nearly nothing
about Javascript, but I have used a couple of tiny canned scripts.

-- I need to know if PHP is the right way to go before I commit to
learning all this. The pages are now being made by a Python program
of about 3000 lines, and uses a database (homegrown based on GDBM, but
likely to change to something relational, maybe Postgresql).

-- I need to know what resources I should consult for programming in
PHP (or whatever). For starters, how do I learn PHP (or whatever).

-- I need to know if there's anything more to adding PHP to my apache
than getting libapache2-mod-php5.

-- I just plain need advice. I'm flying solo here, since I'm retired
and this is a hobby.

--
Kevin O'Gorman, PhD

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Old 05-16-2012, 08:58 AM
Pasi Lallinaho
 
Default Help! Steep learning curve ahead

On 05/16/2012 03:19 AM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
> I've got a web application that has been running in Apache for years
> as a CGI program written mostly in Python.
>
> I'm wanting to upgrade it to Ajax, and the main resource I have for
> that is O'Reilly's book "Adding Ajax", which presents all examples
> with PHP. I know nothing about PHP except the name and that it's
> server side stuff embedded in the web pages. I know nearly nothing
> about Javascript, but I have used a couple of tiny canned scripts.
>
> -- I need to know if PHP is the right way to go before I commit to
> learning all this. The pages are now being made by a Python program
> of about 3000 lines, and uses a database (homegrown based on GDBM, but
> likely to change to something relational, maybe Postgresql).

PHP is very widely used with web applications. There's a neverending
debate if it's good or bad (just try Googling!), but I suppose it all
comes down to how you use it – bad programmers write bad code etc...
Personally, I think PHP is a good choice for a web application.

> -- I need to know what resources I should consult for programming in
> PHP (or whatever). For starters, how do I learn PHP (or whatever).

The PHP documentation [1] is simply said fantastic! Since PHP reads
close to english (all the function names and so!), the learning curve is
relatively light.

If you learn by reading books well, then get hold of a book. If web
documentation is fine, then you should be fine with the online PHP
documentation alone.

> -- I need to know if there's anything more to adding PHP to my apache
> than getting libapache2-mod-php5.

You should install the php5-package too.

> -- I just plain need advice. I'm flying solo here, since I'm retired
> and this is a hobby.

While you're at it, look at jQuery [2] too.

Cheers,
Pasi

[1] http://php.net/docs.php
[2] http://jquery.com/ (the site seems to be slow right now though)

--
Pasi Lallinaho (knome) » http://open.knome.fi/
Leader of Xubuntu and Shimmer Project » http://shimmerproject.org/
Graphic artist, webdesigner, Ubuntu member » http://xubuntu.org/


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Old 05-16-2012, 09:11 AM
Radomir Dopieralski
 
Default Help! Steep learning curve ahead

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 10:58 AM, Pasi Lallinaho
<pasi@shimmerproject.org> wrote:
> On 05/16/2012 03:19 AM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
>> I've got a web application that has been running in Apache for years
>> as a CGI program written mostly in Python.
>>
>> I'm wanting to upgrade it to Ajax, and the main resource I have for
>> that is O'Reilly's book "Adding Ajax", which presents all examples
>> with PHP. *I know nothing about PHP except the name and that it's
>> server side stuff embedded in the web pages. *I know nearly nothing
>> about Javascript, but I have used a couple of tiny canned scripts.
>>
>> -- I need to know if PHP is the right way to go before I commit to
>> learning all this. *The pages are now being made by a Python program
>> of about 3000 lines, and uses a database (homegrown based on GDBM, but
>> likely to change to something relational, maybe Postgresql).
>
> PHP is very widely used with web applications. There's a neverending
> debate if it's good or bad (just try Googling!), but I suppose it all
> comes down to how you use it – bad programmers write bad code etc...
> Personally, I think PHP is a good choice for a web application.
>
>> -- I need to know what resources I should consult for programming in
>> PHP (or whatever). *For starters, how do I learn PHP (or whatever).
>
> The PHP documentation [1] is simply said fantastic! Since PHP reads
> close to english (all the function names and so!), the learning curve is
> relatively light.
>
> If you learn by reading books well, then get hold of a book. If web
> documentation is fine, then you should be fine with the online PHP
> documentation alone.
>
>> -- I need to know if there's anything more to adding PHP to my apache
>> than getting libapache2-mod-php5.
>
> You should install the php5-package too.
>
>> -- I just plain need advice. *I'm flying solo here, since I'm retired
>> and this is a hobby.
>
> While you're at it, look at jQuery [2] too.
>
> Cheers,
> Pasi
>
> [1] http://php.net/docs.php
> [2] http://jquery.com/ (the site seems to be slow right now though)

I just want to add one link to the bunch:
http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/

--
Radomir Dopieralski, http://sheep.art.pl

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Old 05-16-2012, 09:22 AM
Pasi Lallinaho
 
Default Help! Steep learning curve ahead

On 05/16/2012 12:11 PM, Radomir Dopieralski wrote:
> On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 10:58 AM, Pasi Lallinaho
> <pasi@shimmerproject.org> wrote:
>> On 05/16/2012 03:19 AM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
>>> I've got a web application that has been running in Apache for years
>>> as a CGI program written mostly in Python.
>>>
>>> I'm wanting to upgrade it to Ajax, and the main resource I have for
>>> that is O'Reilly's book "Adding Ajax", which presents all examples
>>> with PHP. I know nothing about PHP except the name and that it's
>>> server side stuff embedded in the web pages. I know nearly nothing
>>> about Javascript, but I have used a couple of tiny canned scripts.
>>>
>>> -- I need to know if PHP is the right way to go before I commit to
>>> learning all this. The pages are now being made by a Python program
>>> of about 3000 lines, and uses a database (homegrown based on GDBM, but
>>> likely to change to something relational, maybe Postgresql).
>> PHP is very widely used with web applications. There's a neverending
>> debate if it's good or bad (just try Googling!), but I suppose it all
>> comes down to how you use it – bad programmers write bad code etc...
>> Personally, I think PHP is a good choice for a web application.
>>
>>> -- I need to know what resources I should consult for programming in
>>> PHP (or whatever). For starters, how do I learn PHP (or whatever).
>> The PHP documentation [1] is simply said fantastic! Since PHP reads
>> close to english (all the function names and so!), the learning curve is
>> relatively light.
>>
>> If you learn by reading books well, then get hold of a book. If web
>> documentation is fine, then you should be fine with the online PHP
>> documentation alone.
>>
>>> -- I need to know if there's anything more to adding PHP to my apache
>>> than getting libapache2-mod-php5.
>> You should install the php5-package too.
>>
>>> -- I just plain need advice. I'm flying solo here, since I'm retired
>>> and this is a hobby.
>> While you're at it, look at jQuery [2] too.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Pasi
>>
>> [1] http://php.net/docs.php
>> [2] http://jquery.com/ (the site seems to be slow right now though)
> I just want to add one link to the bunch:
> http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/
>

As I said, it's a neverending debate. This is why I didn't link to any
page on the internet, not for or against. Let's give the users the
possibility to choose their own tool.

We don't need a flamewar, so let this definitely be the last link sent
to the list on the subject of "is PHP good or bad".

Cheers,
Pasi

--
Pasi Lallinaho (knome) » http://open.knome.fi/
Leader of Xubuntu and Shimmer Project » http://shimmerproject.org/
Graphic artist, webdesigner, Ubuntu member » http://xubuntu.org/


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Old 05-16-2012, 10:53 AM
Chris Green
 
Default Help! Steep learning curve ahead

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 11:58:03AM +0300, Pasi Lallinaho wrote:
> > -- I need to know what resources I should consult for programming in
> > PHP (or whatever). For starters, how do I learn PHP (or whatever).
>
> The PHP documentation [1] is simply said fantastic! Since PHP reads
> close to english (all the function names and so!), the learning curve is
> relatively light.
>
Yes, it's excellent, I'm an old-time C programmer but now use Python as
my language of choice for scripts etc. when bash isn't enough. However
I find PHP pretty easy to use too (it's *very* C like in many ways) and,
as you say, the on-line documentation is very good indeed.

> > -- I just plain need advice. I'm flying solo here, since I'm retired
> > and this is a hobby.
>
Join the club! (i.e. I'm retired too)

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Chris Green

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Old 05-16-2012, 11:33 AM
Yhargla
 
Default Help! Steep learning curve ahead

Hello,

Le 16/05/2012 02:19, Kevin O'Gorman a crit :

I've got a web application that has been running in Apache for years
as a CGI program written mostly in Python.


Why don't you stick with python ? I think you can use Ajax with it, see
for example
http://kooneiform.wordpress.com/2010/02/28/python-and-ajax-for-beginners-with-webpy-and-jquery/
.



I know nearly nothing
about Javascript, but I have used a couple of tiny canned scripts.


AJAX is really about Javascript, there are libraries and frameworks that
will hide the engine, see for example Jquery, ExtJS ... But you'll have
to know basics of Javascript.



-- I need to know if PHP is the right way to go before I commit to
learning all this.


I don't see why you should choose another language. Programming is a
lazy people's job ! If you can do it simply, why do you try to make it
harder ?


Regards,

--
Yhargla
http://yhargla.free.fr/photo/


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