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Old 07-19-2012, 10:56 PM
Benedek Imre
 
Default Creating Visual Guidelines for Xubuntu

Hi Guys,

I think all of us know how important is the identity of a brand. The brand identity visually appears through a graphic design. This graphic design has to be aesthetically well formed, pleasing, systematic and extended to every details.
The big brands always have a "Corporate Identity Book", what contains these graphic principles.
(Just a sample: http://brandcenterdl.adobe.com/Corpmktg/Brandmktg/Campaign_Assets/guidelines/corporate/corporate_brand_guidelines.pdf - this is Corporate Brand Guidelines of Adobe.)
Since I got in contact with Xubuntu, I experienced its visual appearance is a bit fragmented in media, it's not so unified as it should be.

Because of this I think we should create a Visual Guideline for Xubuntu.

In case of such brand as Xubuntu is, which is definitely 'worldwide', this kind of document should be very useful. If somebody would like to create an official online or offline document, presentation, learning material etc for Xubuntu anywhere in the world, should check this public guideline only, and he/she will be able to make it with appropriate, unified design.

Some examples what we should place into this document:
- Short introduction to the brand
- The logo
- How to use the logo (positioning, sizes, clear spaces etc)
- Usage examples (of the logo - good and bad examples)
- Using background picture for header
- Colors (RGB, CMYK, spot, accompanying colors)
- Typography (official and replacement typefaces, titles and subtitles, alignments etc)
- Creating layouts (sizes, proportions, columns etc)
- Creating presentations
- Creating tables and charts
- Creating online documents (using header and footer, font sizes and types, colors, general suggestions)
- Using pictures
- Creating banners
- CD/DVD labels and covers

We should also create template files for LibreOffice Writer and Impress, and we have to ensure the access of these files on the internet.

I think there are good funds, what we could rely on - these are:
- The existing logo
- Identity of Ubuntu
- Pasi's website theme

As I'm a graphic designer, I undertake this work - of course with your active contribution and with listening to your suggestions.

What do You think about all of these?

Sincerely, Imre
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Old 07-23-2012, 05:28 PM
Pasi Lallinaho
 
Default Creating Visual Guidelines for Xubuntu

On 07/20/2012 01:59 AM, Benedek Imre
wrote:




Hi there,



I think all of us know how important is the identity of a brand.
The brand identity visually appears through a graphic design. This
graphic design has to be aesthetically well formed, pleasing,
systematic and extended to every details.

The big brands always have a "Corporate Identity Book", what
contains these graphic principles.

(Just a sample:
http://brandcenterdl.adobe.com/Corpmktg/Brandmktg/Campaign_Assets/guidelines/corporate/corporate_brand_guidelines.pdf
- this is Corporate Brand Guidelines of Adobe.)

Since I got in contact with Xubuntu, I experienced its visual
appearance is a bit fragmented in media, it's not so unified as it
should be.



Because of this I think we should create a Visual Guideline for
Xubuntu.




I created one quickly around the Karmic cycle [1].



In case of such brand as Xubuntu is, which is
definitely 'worldwide', this kind of document should be very
useful. If somebody would like to create an official online or
offline document, presentation, learning material etc for Xubuntu
anywhere in the world, should check this public guideline only,
and he/she will be able to make it with appropriate, unified
design.




How much we wanted this to happen, it is just not happening.



Even if we had guidelines, people are not going to follow them as
strictly as we wanted (see above, we *had* one, but
older-than-Karmic logos still exist in active websites). What we
need is active people who are willing to contact people to change
logos and such. Creating guidelines for *these* people would be
good, though it actually exists at our website already at that scale
[2].



Some examples what we should place into this document:

- Short introduction to the brand

- The logo

- How to use the logo (positioning, sizes, clear spaces etc)

- Usage examples (of the logo - good and bad examples)

- Using background picture for header

- Colors (RGB, CMYK, spot, accompanying colors)

- Typography (official and replacement typefaces, titles and
subtitles, alignments etc)

- Creating layouts (sizes, proportions, columns etc)

- Creating presentations

- Creating tables and charts

- Creating online documents (using header and footer, font sizes
and types, colors, general suggestions)

- Using pictures

- Creating banners

- CD/DVD labels and covers




We actually have the logo colors available at our website [2]! We
can make the presentation more understandable – along with the
colors as they appear on your monitor.



We should also create template files for LibreOffice
Writer and Impress, and we have to ensure the access of these
files on the internet.




I think creating template files is more sensible than telling people
how to use the logo (including positioning, sizes and padding
spaces). Most people doesn't really want to go deep enough to either
care or understand about these guidelines.



I think there are good funds, what we could rely on -
these are:

- The existing logo

- Identity of Ubuntu

- Pasi's website theme




The Ubuntu Brand Guidelines [3] you point to are fine, but
seriously, I don't think we need a similar thing in all its
complexiness for Xubuntu.





As I'm a graphic designer, I undertake this work - of course with
your active contribution and with listening to your suggestions.



What do You think about all of these?



Sincerely, Imre



(I've posted this also on mailing list.)




For some reason, your mails tend to break my Thunderbird; I can't
see correct header information, and there is no padding between the
content and the window border. Can you try to send your mails in
plaintext in the future, assuming that'd fix the issue? Thanks.



Cheers,

Pasi



[1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Karmic/Guidelines

[2] http://xubuntu.org/marketingresources/

[3] http://design.canonical.com/the-toolkit/ubuntu-brand-guidelines/



--
Pasi Lallinaho (knome) » http://open.knome.fi/
Leader of Shimmer Project and Xubuntu »*http://shimmerproject.org/
Graphic artist, webdesigner, Ubuntu member » http://xubuntu.org/


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Old 07-29-2012, 06:56 AM
Santiago Roland
 
Default Creating Visual Guidelines for Xubuntu

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 07/23/2012 02:28 PM, Pasi Lallinaho wrote:
> On 07/20/2012 01:59 AM, Benedek Imre wrote:
>> Hi there,
>>
>> I think all of us know how important is the identity of a brand.
>> The brand identity visually appears through a graphic design.
>> This graphic design has to be aesthetically well formed,
>> pleasing, systematic and extended to every details. The big
>> brands always have a "Corporate Identity Book", what contains
>> these graphic principles. (Just a sample:
>> http://brandcenterdl.adobe.com/Corpmktg/Brandmktg/Campaign_Assets/guidelines/corporate/corporate_brand_guidelines.pdf
>>
>>
- - this is Corporate Brand Guidelines of Adobe.)
>> Since I got in contact with Xubuntu, I experienced its visual
>> appearance is a bit fragmented in media, it's not so unified as
>> it should be.
>>
>> Because of this I think we should create a Visual Guideline for
>> Xubuntu.
>
> I created one quickly around the Karmic cycle [1].
>
>> In case of such brand as Xubuntu is, which is definitely
>> 'worldwide', this kind of document should be very useful. If
>> somebody would like to create an official online or offline
>> document, presentation, learning material etc for Xubuntu
>> anywhere in the world, should check this public guideline only,
>> and he/she will be able to make it with appropriate, unified
>> design.
>
> How much we wanted this to happen, it is just not happening.
>
> Even if we had guidelines, people are not going to follow them as
> strictly as we wanted (see above, we *had* one, but
> older-than-Karmic logos still exist in active websites). What we
> need is active people who are willing to contact people to change
> logos and such. Creating guidelines for *these* people would be
> good, though it actually exists at our website already at that
> scale [2].
>
>> Some examples what we should place into this document: - Short
>> introduction to the brand - The logo - How to use the logo
>> (positioning, sizes, clear spaces etc) - Usage examples (of the
>> logo - good and bad examples) - Using background picture for
>> header - Colors (RGB, CMYK, spot, accompanying colors) -
>> Typography (official and replacement typefaces, titles and
>> subtitles, alignments etc) - Creating layouts (sizes,
>> proportions, columns etc) - Creating presentations - Creating
>> tables and charts - Creating online documents (using header and
>> footer, font sizes and types, colors, general suggestions) -
>> Using pictures - Creating banners - CD/DVD labels and covers
>
> We actually have the logo colors available at our website [2]! We
> can make the presentation more understandable – along with the
> colors as they appear on your monitor.
>
>> We should also create template files for LibreOffice Writer and
>> Impress, and we have to ensure the access of these files on the
>> internet.
>
> I think creating template files is more sensible than telling
> people how to use the logo (including positioning, sizes and
> padding spaces). Most people doesn't really want to go deep enough
> to either care or understand about these guidelines.
>
>> I think there are good funds, what we could rely on - these are:
>> - The existing logo - Identity of Ubuntu - Pasi's website theme
>
> The Ubuntu Brand Guidelines [3] you point to are fine, but
> seriously, I don't think we need a similar thing in all its
> complexiness for Xubuntu.
>
>>
>> As I'm a graphic designer, I undertake this work - of course with
>> your active contribution and with listening to your suggestions.
>>
>> What do You think about all of these?
>>
>> Sincerely, Imre
>>
>> (I've posted this also on mailing list.)
>
> For some reason, your mails tend to break my Thunderbird; I can't
> see correct header information, and there is no padding between the
> content and the window border. Can you try to send your mails in
> plaintext in the future, assuming that'd fix the issue? Thanks.
>
> Cheers, Pasi
>
> [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Karmic/Guidelines [2]
> http://xubuntu.org/marketingresources/ [3]
> http://design.canonical.com/the-toolkit/ubuntu-brand-guidelines/
>
> -- Pasi Lallinaho (knome) »
> http://open.knome.fi/ Leader of Shimmer Project and Xubuntu »
> http://shimmerproject.org/ Graphic artist, webdesigner, Ubuntu
> member » http://xubuntu.org/
>
>
>

In addition to this mail i wish to say some things that i believe
would make Xubuntu completely rock because it would mean a completely
replace for other Ubuntu desktops.

* Gmusicbruwser: Should be replaced by Banshee. It has better look and
feel (also name) and it supports many functions, and its better than
rhythmbox too. It shows album thumbs very nice and stuff and it is
fully GTK2 compatible

* Thunar: make available the "properties" function for
more-than-one-mouse-selected folders/items, and it should be capable
of showing free space in external devices like pendrives and stuff in
a more graphical way

* Thunar: make tabs available, the use of tabs is more than natural in
firefox, now thunderbird... thunar should have tabs too

* Thunar: The title text in folders and files should be aligned to
center and not to left, that breaks icon balance. It should be like
nautilus

* Thunar: more feedback when ejecting pendrives, like 50% opacity in
the icon or something

* Thunar: Should have an extension for handling encryption, like
seahorse-encryption extension for nautilus. Encryption is going to be
very common in the future, so i believe that is will be needed a lot.

* Parole: I think that parole need some tweaks, it cannot reproduce a
video, or it take like 20 secs to load a stupid mp4 20 MB file...
Window resoze breaks aspect ratio and many formats are not played even
with the xubuntu-restricted-extras installed. Totem used to be a fine
video player but it suffers some of the same issues of Parole. The
only video player that never, and i mean NEVER failed to reproduce a
single video is VLC, but VLC GUI is not as polished as GTK ones of
Totem or Parole. Maybe a retouched version of VLC should replace all
video players around, Parole in this case.

* Themes: Xubuntu should have a light theme by default and not trying
to imitate Ubuntu ambiance theme or others, light themes are better
for understanding, reading and it is well demonstrated that light
themes are better for the understanding of the mind. Thats why the
kindle is black text over white surface and not backwards, and Faenza
icon theme should be default, this icon set is the most unified and
smooth i've ever seen (but that is my opinion). BTW, xfce used to ship
with light theme in previous versions.

This is the most important things i think should be
reviewed/changed/discussed... etc, maybe i could comment a few more
things.

Off course someone will think, "hey, if you dont like Parole or
Gmusicbrowser, uninstall it and install whatever-favourite-player you
have in your box", but i ask, how many people really use Parole as
they everyday player? and how much people use VLC? You know what? I
use Parole many times and totem, but when im going to show some cool
video to a bunch of people, i use VLC because i know it will never
fail unless the file is corrupted or so.... and that should tell us
that VLC should be thy video player...

Off course someone will think, "hey, if you dont like Parole or
Gmusicbrowser, uninstall it and install whatever-favourite-player you
have in your box"... what about the people that install xubutu and
expect a completely fully functional OS out of the box.... that people
is the people that usually do not talk or not complain... they install
and they must have the best out of the box, because that is how
xubuntu will sky rocket up.

Finally i don't want to be miss understood here, i completely love
xubuntu and XFCE, and i think XFCE is the reason why i still using
ubuntu and still installing linux in ordinary people's PCs, because
XFCE kinda meet the essential needs without being the failure tha
meant in productivity other "new" and "so cool" desktops environments.

I would like to hear your opinion about this topics and i understand
that this discussions should be up always and always we should be
asking ourselves this kind of things. The fact that i love XFCE does
not mean that is perfect, it just mean that i will be sit on this
chair writing for half an hour about how can we get it better and better

Best regards to everyone

- --
Santiago Roland.-
- ---------------------
openPGP key: 04DF8076
http://is.gd/jKuIhW
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Old 07-29-2012, 09:16 AM
Eero Tamminen
 
Default Creating Visual Guidelines for Xubuntu

Hi,

On sunnuntai 29 heinkuu 2012, Santiago Roland wrote:
> * Gmusicbruwser: Should be replaced by Banshee.
...
> Maybe a retouched version of VLC should replace all
> video players around, Parole in this case.

It would help if these kind of proposals would be formulated according
to the selection criteria given in the Xubuntu Strategy document.



> * Themes: Xubuntu should have a light theme by default and not trying
> to imitate Ubuntu ambiance theme or others, light themes are better
> for understanding, reading and it is well demonstrated that light
> themes are better for the understanding of the mind.

While I don't have any contrary evidence, this sounds just as
your own opinion...

Could you point out the research studies or other non-anecdotal evidence
which gave these results?

(The studies should include information about the used display refresh
rates and how long people have looked at the display continuously.)


> Thats why the kindle is black text over white surface and not backwards,

Kindle uses electronic ink screen which has different display properties
from LCDs (and CRTs) used in computers where Xubuntu is installed.

Also, ebooks try to imitate books. Normal paper of course has
also different display properties from LCDs. :-)


- Eero

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Old 07-29-2012, 11:59 PM
Santiago Roland
 
Default Creating Visual Guidelines for Xubuntu

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 07/29/2012 06:16 AM, Eero Tamminen wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On sunnuntai 29 heinkuu 2012, Santiago Roland wrote:
>> * Gmusicbruwser: Should be replaced by Banshee.
> ...
>> Maybe a retouched version of VLC should replace all video players
>> around, Parole in this case.
>
> It would help if these kind of proposals would be formulated
> according to the selection criteria given in the Xubuntu Strategy
> document.
>

I would be glad that someone point me in the right direction regarding
topics like i mentioned. I did not know what specific steps to take
and please tell me if i'm in the wrong mailing list, i'll try to
follow your instructions and avoid being off topic.

>
>
>> * Themes: Xubuntu should have a light theme by default and not
>> trying to imitate Ubuntu ambiance theme or others, light themes
>> are better for understanding, reading and it is well demonstrated
>> that light themes are better for the understanding of the mind.
>
> While I don't have any contrary evidence, this sounds just as your
> own opinion...
>
> Could you point out the research studies or other non-anecdotal
> evidence which gave these results?
>
> (The studies should include information about the used display
> refresh rates and how long people have looked at the display
> continuously.)
>

I think it's ok asking for references, i'm a scientist myself so i
should have cited my statements to clarify that. If you want to learn
more about display color schemes, there are several studies about it
(i mentioned because i often read articles like that, it is not just
my opinion). I can point you to this article:

http://uxmovement.com/content/when-to-use-white-text-on-a-dark-background/

that states black text over white/shade of gray is better for reading.
It has some biological reasons regarding the eye, but you can go
deeper if you want

Algo you can chech out this article:

http://www.laurenscharff.com/research/AHNCUR.html

That shows some good statistics in reaction time of reading something,
and includes also different types of fonts.

You can also check out this survey of color test:

http://www.laurenscharff.com/research/survreslts.html

and many of this results belong to website-oriented researches and
surveys for they to have the best reception and the best readability.

You can try out yourself this elemental color test and honestly
evaluate them:

http://www.laurenscharff.com/research/colorsurvey.html

As a final comment about ligh/dark themes: I do work (for the last 11
years) in a no-light room. I'm an astronomer and i work in a room with
4 LCD monitors next to the telescope room. In that place, white-rich
light themes leaves my eyes blind when i step in to the telescope
room. So we developed a dark color scheme for that machines plus a
decreased contrast and brightness in monitor settings. This color
scheme is fine because the place is dark and we need to not get blind
by monitors, and nights are 8-12hrs long.

I also tweaked that color scheme to make it more fashion and uploaded
to gnome-look a couple of years now, but we had this for years in the
observatory. You check it out in my spanish blog:

http://elasterismo.blogspot.com/2010/10/tema-de-escritorio-dark-para-gnome.html

Everyday people do not work in a place like that, so the light (shade
of gray) theme is more eye friendly and increases reaction times, help
searching ans scanning in file managers, reading and people even apply
this to webpages.


>> Thats why the kindle is black text over white surface and not
>> backwards,
>
> Kindle uses electronic ink screen which has different display
> properties from LCDs (and CRTs) used in computers where Xubuntu is
> installed.
>
> Also, ebooks try to imitate books. Normal paper of course has also
> different display properties from LCDs. :-)
>

But humans are very used to read black text in white background. I
know that maybe a dark theme makes our machines look cooler, and
hacker style, but that is for 15 minutes, or for watching a video...
if you have to work on it and read, you will wish someone make a good
light theme (with a subtle shade of gray instead of pure white)
because you will be more productive. The dark theme should be equally
well designed, but as a second choice, maybe asked during installation?

>
> - Eero
>
Best Regards to everyone.

- --
Santiago Roland.-
- ---------------------
openPGP key: 04DF8076
http://is.gd/jKuIhW
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Old 07-30-2012, 06:33 PM
Eero Tamminen
 
Default Creating Visual Guidelines for Xubuntu

Hi,

On maanantai 30 heinkuu 2012, Santiago Roland wrote:
> On 07/29/2012 06:16 AM, Eero Tamminen wrote:
> > On sunnuntai 29 heinkuu 2012, Santiago Roland wrote:
> >> * Gmusicbruwser: Should be replaced by Banshee.
> > ...
> >> Maybe a retouched version of VLC should replace all video players
> >> around, Parole in this case.
> >
> > It would help if these kind of proposals would be formulated
> > according to the selection criteria given in the Xubuntu Strategy
> > document.
>
> I would be glad that someone point me in the right direction regarding
> topics like i mentioned. I did not know what specific steps to take

There's a proposed update to strategy document, this lists both
the old one and the new proposal side by side, for the part that
is relevant for new app decisions:
http://strategydoc.knome.fi/seeds/

Unsuitable packages & package selection sections tell what things
can be considered to be added to Xubuntu (but I think the point about
C++ is irrelevant, it should be about disk usage increase, both due
to app *and* its deps, and RAM footprint when the app is running).


Target part:
http://strategydoc.knome.fi/target/

Gives some additional criterias when considering which application
is more suitable for Xubuntu. E.g. how well the application is
localized to the languages supported by Xubuntu desktop, not just
how well it otherwise integrates[1] to Xubuntu desktop.


[1] Qt apps, besides bringing in lots of unwanted deps, don't
integrate as well to Gtk based desktop (themeing etc).
At least that was the case few years ago.



> and please tell me if i'm in the wrong mailing list, i'll try to
> follow your instructions and avoid being off topic.

Others are better at answering this. I'm not involved in decisions
about these, I've just contributed a bit to the strategy doc. :-)


> >> * Themes: Xubuntu should have a light theme by default and not
> >> trying to imitate Ubuntu ambiance theme or others, light themes
> >> are better for understanding, reading and it is well demonstrated
> >> that light themes are better for the understanding of the mind.
...
> I think it's ok asking for references, i'm a scientist myself so i
> should have cited my statements to clarify that. If you want to learn
> more about display color schemes, there are several studies about it
> (i mentioned because i often read articles like that, it is not just
> my opinion). I can point you to this article:
>
> http://uxmovement.com/content/when-to-use-white-text-on-a-dark-background
> /
>
> that states black text over white/shade of gray is better for reading.
>
> It has some biological reasons regarding the eye, but you can go
> deeper if you want

This isn't very good or much of a study. Data is missing.

And I don't think Xubuntu uses anywhere full white on full black.


> Algo you can chech out this article:
>
> http://www.laurenscharff.com/research/AHNCUR.html
>
> That shows some good statistics in reaction time of reading something,
> and includes also different types of fonts.

This is proper research. However, it's quite old, from 1997, when
displays were CRTs.

While the paper mentions that vision impairments affect RT, the study
itself included only people with very good (or corrected) vision.

And the results state that:
"In general these results suggest that there is no one foreground/background
combination, font, or word style which leads to the fastest RT (i.e. best
readability), but rather a designer must consider how each variable affects
the other(s)."


> You can also check out this survey of color test:
>
> http://www.laurenscharff.com/research/survreslts.html

Ok, this states clearly that:
"in every color combination surveyed, the darker text on a lighter
background was rated more readable than its inverse"

But the document also states that this (unlike above study?) concerns
primarily larger amounts of texts, sentences, not just words.

I.e. it's important for things like www-pages, document content etc.
which can have a lot of text. For isolated interface elements like
buttons etc which have single words, there's no such clear differences
(it depends more on what font is used etc).


> and many of this results belong to website-oriented researches and
> surveys for they to have the best reception and the best readability.

Is there any newer (proper) study that would be done on normal LCDs
that everybody has nowadays?


> Everyday people do not work in a place like that, so the light (shade
> of gray) theme is more eye friendly and increases reaction times, help
> searching ans scanning in file managers, reading and people even apply
> this to webpages.
...
> But humans are very used to read black text in white background. I
> know that maybe a dark theme makes our machines look cooler, and
> hacker style, but that is for 15 minutes, or for watching a video...
> if you have to work on it and read, you will wish someone make a good
> light theme (with a subtle shade of gray instead of pure white)
> because you will be more productive. The dark theme should be equally
> well designed, but as a second choice, maybe asked during installation?


- Eero

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Old 07-30-2012, 06:55 PM
Elizabeth Krumbach
 
Default Creating Visual Guidelines for Xubuntu

On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 4:59 PM, Santiago Roland <sroland@lavabit.com> wrote:
> I would be glad that someone point me in the right direction regarding
> topics like i mentioned. I did not know what specific steps to take
> and please tell me if i'm in the wrong mailing list, i'll try to
> follow your instructions and avoid being off topic.

I'll just note that discussion on changes is always welcome because
it's great to have feedback and not everyone is available during the
planning section of our cycle. Thank you!

However, these discussions are most effective when they are done
during our planning weeks for the release cycle, as by the time we're
where we are now (already in alpha3, heading toward beta1) it's too
late to consider major changes for the upcoming release and we're
primarily working on bug fixes and finalizing our current blueprints,
so we'll have to bookmark this email and consider it for the next
cycle.

For an idea of how our development cycle works, here's the example of
the timing for Quantal:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Goals/Quantal

And more details about actually submitting ideas and blueprints here:
http://xubuntu.org/news/brainstorming-the-12-10-release/

Hope this helps.

--
Elizabeth Krumbach // Lyz // pleia2
http://www.princessleia.com

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