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Michele Mor 07-09-2012 12:25 PM

IDEA: Integrate C­atfish into Thunar
 
Hi.
I'm not a dev, but my 2 cents about this.

> I've just elaborated a very easy to do proposed solution about this 'search thing' - what do You think about?
> To integrate Catfish into Thunar is a bit complicated I think so forget it, leave Catfish as a standalone application and use it, but:
>
> 1. Rename it to 'File Finder' (as I wrote before its name tells nothing about its function). Move it close to Application Finder in Accessories (You can do it easily by Main Menu Editor). I think Application Finder and File Finder is a nice unit with clear names.
>
> 2. Insert File Finder into Thunar's File menu (it could simply launch File Finder as a standalone app in the actual folder). It needs to picking the code of Thunar, only programmers can do it.
>
> I think this solution is really easy to do, does not need big developments, but has got advantages: clear for everybody, accessible from most adequate places.
>
> See the mockup:
> http://ubuntuone.com/1aQxStk30agDyA5WqOwKFU
>
This is not bad, but I still prefer your previous mockup.
Having a "file finder" or "file filter" on your Thunar window is a huge advantage for a user.
For example, if you download a file .mp3 and then open your "Download" folder it would be much easier to identify that file if you could restrict Thunar to show only .mp3 files.
As it has been mentioned earlier, Win and Mac do the same, why can't Xubuntu?

Thanks.
Michele

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Joshua O'Leary 07-09-2012 12:37 PM

IDEA: Integrate C­atfish into Thunar
 
On Mon, 09 Jul 2012 16:25:21 +0400
Michele Mor <m_mor@mail15.com> wrote:

> Hi.
> I'm not a dev, but my 2 cents about this.
>
> > I've just elaborated a very easy to do proposed solution about this 'search thing' - what do You think about?
> > To integrate Catfish into Thunar is a bit complicated I think so forget it, leave Catfish as a standalone application and use it, but:
> >
> > 1. Rename it to 'File Finder' (as I wrote before its name tells nothing about its function). Move it close to Application Finder in Accessories (You can do it easily by Main Menu Editor). I think Application Finder and File Finder is a nice unit with clear names.
> >
> > 2. Insert File Finder into Thunar's File menu (it could simply launch File Finder as a standalone app in the actual folder). It needs to picking the code of Thunar, only programmers can do it.
> >
> > I think this solution is really easy to do, does not need big developments, but has got advantages: clear for everybody, accessible from most adequate places.
> >
> > See the mockup:
> > http://ubuntuone.com/1aQxStk30agDyA5WqOwKFU
> >
> This is not bad, but I still prefer your previous mockup.
> Having a "file finder" or "file filter" on your Thunar window is a huge advantage for a user.
> For example, if you download a file .mp3 and then open your "Download" folder it would be much easier to identify that file if you could restrict Thunar to show only .mp3 files.
> As it has been mentioned earlier, Win and Mac do the same, why can't Xubuntu?
>
> Thanks.
> Michele
>
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> xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel


Good idea, but don't forget it needs to be kept fairly lightweight. It shouldn't have a massive tracker indexing service like GNOME/Unity/KDE do, this would demand more resources and disk space for file indexing. Also thunar shouldn't be to overloaded with features - it needs to be a fast file manager, so catfish integration would be best done by another package.

Joshua

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S Venu Gopal 07-09-2012 01:04 PM

IDEA: Integrate C­atfish into Thunar
 
My two votes too !!

I'm not a developer as well. :)

From: "Michele Mor" <m_mor@mail15.com>
To: xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
Sent: Monday, July 9, 2012 5:55:21 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Re: IDEA: Integrate C*atfish into Thunar

Hi.
I'm not a dev, but my 2 cents about this.
*
> I've just elaborated a very easy to do proposed solution about this 'search thing' - what do You think about?
> To integrate Catfish into Thunar is a bit complicated I think so forget it, leave Catfish as a standalone application and use it, but:
>
> 1. Rename it to 'File Finder' (as I
wrote before its name tells nothing about its function). Move it close to Application Finder in Accessories (You can do it easily by Main Menu Editor). I think Application Finder and File Finder is a nice unit with clear names.
>
> 2. Insert File Finder into Thunar's File menu (it could simply launch File Finder as a standalone app in the actual folder). It needs to picking the code of Thunar, only programmers can do it.
>
> I think this solution is really easy to do, does not need big developments, but has got advantages: clear for everybody, accessible from most adequate places.
>
> See the mockup:
> http://ubuntuone.com/1aQxStk30agDyA5WqOwKFU
>
This is not bad, but I still prefer your previous mockup.
Having a "file finder" or "file filter" on your Thunar window is a huge advantage for a user.
For example, if you download a file .mp3 and then open your "Download" folder it would be much
easier to identify that file if you could restrict Thunar to show only .mp3 files.
As it has been mentioned earlier, Win and Mac do the same, why can't Xubuntu?

Thanks.
Michele

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07-09-2012 03:35 PM

IDEA: Integrate C­atfish into Thunar
 
hey guys & gals,

xubuntu uses the open source thunar file manager, and catfish file
search app, but xubuntu team is not the developer of either.

I believe such a thunar feature request would have to go through the
applications actual development team: http://thunar.xfce.org/

--
thanks,
brian

On Mon, 09 Jul 2012 16:25:21 +0400
Michele Mor <m_mor@mail15.com> wrote:

> Hi.
> I'm not a dev, but my 2 cents about this.
>
> > I've just elaborated a very easy to do proposed solution about this
> > 'search thing' - what do You think about? To integrate Catfish into
> > Thunar is a bit complicated I think so forget it, leave Catfish as
> > a standalone application and use it, but:
> >
> > 1. Rename it to 'File Finder' (as I wrote before its name tells
> > nothing about its function). Move it close to Application Finder in
> > Accessories (You can do it easily by Main Menu Editor). I think
> > Application Finder and File Finder is a nice unit with clear names.
> >
> > 2. Insert File Finder into Thunar's File menu (it could simply
> > launch File Finder as a standalone app in the actual folder). It
> > needs to picking the code of Thunar, only programmers can do it.
> >
> > I think this solution is really easy to do, does not need big
> > developments, but has got advantages: clear for everybody,
> > accessible from most adequate places.
> >
> > See the mockup:
> > http://ubuntuone.com/1aQxStk30agDyA5WqOwKFU
> >
> This is not bad, but I still prefer your previous mockup.
> Having a "file finder" or "file filter" on your Thunar window is a
> huge advantage for a user. For example, if you download a file .mp3
> and then open your "Download" folder it would be much easier to
> identify that file if you could restrict Thunar to show only .mp3
> files. As it has been mentioned earlier, Win and Mac do the same, why
> can't Xubuntu?
>
> Thanks.
> Michele
>



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Benedek Imre 07-09-2012 09:21 PM

IDEA: Integrate C­atfish into Thunar
 
To Brian:
It's not Xubuntu's developers business: Yes, You're right - I've always guessed it. I'm going to try to reach some guys at Xfce or at Xubuntu who knows them and can help. It will be a bit hard, cause Xfce Desktop team and Thunar developers are not the same (I'm not sure) and my proposal affects both of them.

To Michele Mor:
Michele, if You click on 'Type' in the header of Thunar, it lists the files by type OR if You select Edit>Select by pattern and insert *.mp3 into the input field, Thunar will select all the mp3s automatically. I do not think Windows or MacOS can do more for You.

Otherwise we must see to integrate Catfish into Thunar is not a 5 minutes work (furthermore Joshua wrote Thunar needs to be kept fairly lightweight and I agree with him), so finally I've changed my mind and therefore I suggest keep Catfish standalone, move forward with small steps, do some things for let the search function is more easy to find for beginners also.

Sincerely, Imre

-- Eredeti üzenet --
Feladó: <xubuntu-dev-list@nairb.us>Címzett: <xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com>Elküldve: 2012. július 9. 17:36Tárgy : Re: IDEA: Integrate C*atfish into Thunar

hey guys & gals,

xubuntu uses the open source thunar file manager, and catfish file
search app, but xubuntu team is not the developer of either.

I believe such a thunar feature request would have to go through the
applications actual development team: http://thunar.xfce.org/

--
thanks,
brian

On Mon, 09 Jul 2012 16:25:21 +0400
Michele Mor <m_mor@mail15.com> wrote:

> This is not bad, but I still prefer your previous mockup.
> Having a "file finder" or "file filter" on your Thunar window is a
> huge advantage for a user. For example, if you download a file .mp3
> and then open your "Download" folder it would be much easier to
> identify that file if you could restrict Thunar to show only .mp3
> files. As it has been mentioned earlier, Win and Mac do the same, why
> can't Xubuntu?
>
> Thanks.
> Michele

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Simon Steinbeiß 07-09-2012 11:01 PM

IDEA: Integrate C­atfish into Thunar
 
On Mon, 9 Jul 2012 23:21:02 +0200
Benedek Imre <nucleo@indamail.hu> wrote:

> It's not Xubuntu's developers business: Yes, You're right - I've always guessed it. I'm going to try to reach some guys at Xfce or at Xubuntu who knows them and can help. It will be a bit hard, cause Xfce Desktop team and Thunar developers are not the same (I'm not sure) and my proposal affects both of them.

Thunar's development is stalling a bit at the moment. The main developer has recently relocated and he's busy with his new job, so we'll see how soon things will start moving there again. And to get more to your point, Thunar is an integral part of Xfce and the maintainer/developer of Thunar was always a core member of the Xfce developers.

> Otherwise we must see to integrate Catfish into Thunar is not a 5 minutes work (furthermore Joshua wrote Thunar needs to be kept fairly lightweight and I agree with him), so finally I've changed my mind and therefore I suggest keep Catfish standalone, move forward with small steps, do some things for let the search function is more easy to find for beginners also.

Moving forward in small steps is a very good idea.
While I agree that the context-menu entry is not as discoverable as can be, adding a link to the main menu isn't going to happen for now. Thunar doesn't provide any way for external applications to hook in a new menu-item and hardcoding a "file finder" link to catfish would be ludicrous (even though it would be a really really simple patch) because you have to keep in mind what'll happen if catfish isn't installed or gets removed.

Renaming the application's menu-entry is something worth considering. I'll talk to the catfish-devs about it. (Could imagine a name without dropping the "catfish name", something like "Catfish desktop search".)

- Simon

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Joshua O'Leary 07-10-2012 01:22 PM

IDEA: Integrate C­atfish into Thunar
 
On 10/07/12 00:01, Simon Steinbeiß wrote:

On Mon, 9 Jul 2012 23:21:02 +0200
Benedek Imre <nucleo@indamail.hu> wrote:


It's not Xubuntu's developers business: Yes, You're right - I've always guessed it. I'm going to try to reach some guys at Xfce or at Xubuntu who knows them and can help. It will be a bit hard, cause Xfce Desktop team and Thunar developers are not the same (I'm not sure) and my proposal affects both of them.

Thunar's development is stalling a bit at the moment. The main developer has recently relocated and he's busy with his new job, so we'll see how soon things will start moving there again. And to get more to your point, Thunar is an integral part of Xfce and the maintainer/developer of Thunar was always a core member of the Xfce developers.


Otherwise we must see to integrate Catfish into Thunar is not a 5 minutes work (furthermore Joshua wrote Thunar needs to be kept fairly lightweight and I agree with him), so finally I've changed my mind and therefore I suggest keep Catfish standalone, move forward with small steps, do some things for let the search function is more easy to find for beginners also.

Moving forward in small steps is a very good idea.
While I agree that the context-menu entry is not as discoverable as can be, adding a link to the main menu isn't going to happen for now. Thunar doesn't provide any way for external applications to hook in a new menu-item and hardcoding a "file finder" link to catfish would be ludicrous (even though it would be a really really simple patch) because you have to keep in mind what'll happen if catfish isn't installed or gets removed.

Renaming the application's menu-entry is something worth considering. I'll talk to the catfish-devs about it. (Could imagine a name without dropping the "catfish name", something like "Catfish desktop search".)

- Simon

If integration did happen, you wouldn't need to change Catfish's name at
all - just add a GenericName= field to its .desktop file and tell it to
use that.


J


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Benedek Imre 07-10-2012 11:49 PM

IDEA: Integrate C­atfish into Thunar
 
I'm a bit sad it's unable to 'link' Catfish from Thunar, because this would have been an easy and good solution (but I comprehend its reasons). Even Nautilus can search for files, not to speak about Windows Explorer or MacOS X Finder. I know if I need built in search I could install Nautilus, but this is so essential feature, what every file manager should know (furthermore I did not talk about a built-in feature, just a simple 'launcher').

About the name. The truth is if I look on Xubuntu I would like to see a unified OS, not just a heap of individual applications. Of course this is a theoretical question, maybe it does not match with philosophy of Linux or Xubuntu. I think Ubuntu or LinuxMint owe their success (inter alia) they are unified (so a Linux distro is still possible to be unified). We should not trudge behind them and we should not fear from change. Meanwhile I know Xubuntu owes its success it moves forward judiciously - yes I know it's paradox.
When I work with an OS, I seek functions not applications. If I would like to find a file I seek a function called 'File Finder'. It's a very good example there are exo-launchers for web browsing or e-mail reading in Xubuntu. Why not make 'File Finder' like this too?
I've written the 'Application Finder' and 'File Finder' could be a nice, logical unit in my previous post - and I still believe now.
Naturally I absolutely understand if developers of Catfish do not want to give up this name.

Finally You should know I did not want to be harsh or offend anyone indeed, I'm always overly enthusiastic if I'm talking about Xubuntu and of course I'm making campaign for my idea. :-D

-- Eredeti üzenet --
Feladó: Simon Steinbeiß <simon.steinbeiss@elfenbeinturm.at>Címzett: Xubuntu Development Discussion <xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com>Elküldve: 2012. július 10. 10:5Tárgy : Re: IDEA: Integrate C*atfish into Thunar

On Mon, 9 Jul 2012 23:21:02 +0200
Benedek Imre <nucleo@indamail.hu> wrote:

> It's not Xubuntu's developers business: Yes, You're right - I've always guessed it. I'm going to try to reach some guys at Xfce or at Xubuntu who knows them and can help. It will be a bit hard, cause Xfce Desktop team and Thunar developers are not the same (I'm not sure) and my proposal affects both of them.

Thunar's development is stalling a bit at the moment. The main developer has recently relocated and he's busy with his new job, so we'll see how soon things will start moving there again. And to get more to your point, Thunar is an integral part of Xfce and the maintainer/developer of Thunar was always a core member of the Xfce developers.

> Otherwise we must see to integrate Catfish into Thunar is not a 5 minutes work (furthermore Joshua wrote Thunar needs to be kept fairly lightweight and I agree with him), so finally I've changed my mind and therefore I suggest keep Catfish standalone, move forward with small steps, do some things for let the search function is more easy to find for beginners also.

Moving forward in small steps is a very good idea.
While I agree that the context-menu entry is not as discoverable as can be, adding a link to the main menu isn't going to happen for now. Thunar doesn't provide any way for external applications to hook in a new menu-item and hardcoding a "file finder" link to catfish would be ludicrous (even though it would be a really really simple patch) because you have to keep in mind what'll happen if catfish isn't installed or gets removed.

Renaming the application's menu-entry is something worth considering. I'll talk to the catfish-devs about it. (Could imagine a name without dropping the "catfish name", something like "Catfish desktop search".)

- Simon

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Simon Steinbeiß 07-11-2012 12:27 AM

IDEA: Integrate C­atfish into Thunar
 
On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 01:49:11 +0200
Benedek Imre <nucleo@indamail.hu> wrote:

> I'm a bit sad it's unable to 'link' Catfish from Thunar, because this would have been an easy and good solution (but I comprehend its reasons). Even Nautilus can search for files, not to speak about Windows Explorer or MacOS X Finder. I know if I need built in search I could install Nautilus, but this is so essential feature, what every file manager should know (furthermore I did not talk about a built-in feature, just a simple 'launcher').

While I tend to agree, there's not too much we can do for now.

> About the name. The truth is if I look on Xubuntu I would like to see a unified OS, not just a heap of individual applications. Of course this is a theoretical question, maybe it does not match with philosophy of Linux or Xubuntu. I think Ubuntu or LinuxMint owe their success (inter alia) they are unified (so a Linux distro is still possible to be unified). We should not trudge behind them and we should not fear from change. Meanwhile I know Xubuntu owes its success it moves forward judiciously - yes I know it's paradox .
> When I work with an OS, I seek functions not applications. If I would like to find a file I seek a function called 'File Finder'. It's a very good example there are exo-launchers for web browsing or e-mail reading in Xubuntu. Why not make 'File Finder' like this too?
> I've written the 'Application Finder' and 'File Finder' could be a nice, logical unit in my previous post - and I still believe now.
> Naturally I absolutely understand if developers of Catfish do not want to give up this name.

It's not just about giving up an application's name or branding, the problem I see is that the old-school application-menus we got used to since Windows 95 only allow for a title to be shown. So if you e.g. install 3 different browsers and they're all called "Web Browser" you probably won't be a very happy user. Same thing goes for any other application. I understand your wish for a unified OS and we're doing our best, I also want Xubuntu to look all of a piece as much as possible. But you have to keep in mind that people will try to modify the OS they get (which is one of the basic ideas of Open Source imo), so you have to keep things flexible enough that they'll work in different setups. (Otherwise the Greybird theme would look quite different, to be honest.)
Btw, the new menuitem will probably be "Catfish File Search". I hope that's a good middle-ground (and an improvement).

> Finally You should know I did not want to be harsh or offend anyone indeed, I'm always overly enthusiastic if I'm talking about Xubuntu and of course I'm making campaign for my idea. :-D

I don't think you were harsh, and trying to make Xubuntu better is a noble cause. I wish I could give you more hopeful answers than the ones I had to give you.

- Simon

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Benedek Imre 07-11-2012 01:27 AM

IDEA: Integrate C­atfish into Thunar
 
Hi Guys,

Just a short reply to Simon:
"the new menuitem will probably be Catfish File Search" - I think it's a quite good compromise, it's better than the simple 'Catfish' (even if not as good as 'File Finder' :-D

What do You think about if we place it next to Application Finder with a separator below them (in Main menu>Accessories) ? It's a little highlight from the crowd and helps to find it a bit more easily. If there will be some improvements on Catfish in 12.10, this would be a good reason to do this, and both of them perform some kind of search, so they are a bit similar in some ways.

One remark:
It's quite disturbing the small magnifier icon of Catfish (and of Application Finder also) is dark and it appears on a dark menu by default. I know there are different themes, but if the default theme is dark, maybe this should be considered. Could its icon be light or contoured with light at least?

We've talked about the accessibility already. If Thunar could not contains a launcher, could we place Catfish File Search on the bottom shortcut pane by default? Next to Application Finder (as in Accessories)? I really think it's a bit hard to find for a beginner...

Imre

-- Eredeti üzenet --
Feladó: Simon Steinbeiß <simon.steinbeiss@elfenbeinturm.at>Címzett: Xubuntu Development Discussion <xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com>Elküldve: 2012. július 11. 2:28Tárgy : Re: IDEA: Integrate C*atfish into Thunar

On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 01:49:11 +0200
Benedek Imre <nucleo@indamail.hu> wrote:

> I'm a bit sad it's unable to 'link' Catfish from Thunar, because this would have been an easy and good solution (but I comprehend its reasons). Even Nautilus can search for files, not to speak about Windows Explorer or MacOS X Finder. I know if I need built in search I could install Nautilus, but this is so essential feature, what every file manager should know (furthermore I did not talk about a built-in feature, just a simple 'launcher').

While I tend to agree, there's not too much we can do for now.

> About the name. The truth is if I look on Xubuntu I would like to see a unified OS, not just a heap of individual applications. Of course this is a theoretical question, maybe it does not match with philosophy of Linux or Xubuntu. I think Ubuntu or LinuxMint owe their success (inter alia) they are unified (so a Linux distro is still possible to be unified). We should not trudge behind them and we should not fear from change. Meanwhile I know Xubuntu owes its success it moves forward judiciously - yes I know it's paradox .
> When I work with an OS, I seek functions not applications. If I would like to find a file I seek a function called 'File Finder'. It's a very good example there are exo-launchers for web browsing or e-mail reading in Xubuntu. Why not make 'File Finder' like this too?
> I've written the 'Application Finder' and 'File Finder' could be a nice, logical unit in my previous post - and I still believe now.
> Naturally I absolutely understand if developers of Catfish do not want to give up this name.

It's not just about giving up an application's name or branding, the problem I see is that the old-school application-menus we got used to since Windows 95 only allow for a title to be shown. So if you e.g. install 3 different browsers and they're all called "Web Browser" you probably won't be a very happy user. Same thing goes for any other application. I understand your wish for a unified OS and we're doing our best, I also want Xubuntu to look all of a piece as much as possible. But you have to keep in mind that people will try to modify the OS they get (which is one of the basic ideas of Open Source imo), so you have to keep things flexible enough that they'll work in different setups. (Otherwise the Greybird theme would look quite different, to be honest.)
Btw, the new menuitem will probably be "Catfish File Search". I hope that's a good middle-ground (and an improvement).

> Finally You should know I did not want to be harsh or offend anyone indeed, I'm always overly enthusiastic if I'm talking about Xubuntu and of course I'm making campaign for my idea. :-D

I don't think you were harsh, and trying to make Xubuntu better is a noble cause. I wish I could give you more hopeful answers than the ones I had to give you.

- Simon

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