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Old 12-07-2011, 10:27 AM
Micah Gersten
 
Default Xubuntu LTS proposal

So, as discussed around UDS time, we need to make an official request
for Xubuntu to be labeled as an LTS release.
Here are what I think we can sanely commit to:

3 yr LTS
Milestone image testing i386/amd64 (including point release updates post
release)
Best effort High/Critical bug fixes
Best effort security fixes for Xfce related packages

This would be made easier if Xubuntu Precise would be aligned with
Debian for their Wheezy release with the same base Xfce version. With a
proposed March 2012 release date for 4.10, it's possible that Debian
could move to that release before their freeze during the summer.

Comments?

Thanks,
Micah


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Old 12-07-2011, 10:28 AM
Micah Gersten
 
Default Xubuntu LTS proposal

On 12/07/2011 05:27 AM, Micah Gersten wrote:
> So, as discussed around UDS time, we need to make an official request
> for Xubuntu to be labeled as an LTS release.
> Here are what I think we can sanely commit to:
>
> 3 yr LTS
> Milestone image testing i386/amd64 (including point release updates post
> release)
> Best effort High/Critical bug fixes
> Best effort security fixes for Xfce related packages
>
> This would be made easier if Xubuntu Precise would be aligned with
> Debian for their Wheezy release with the same base Xfce version. With a
> proposed March 2012 release date for 4.10, it's possible that Debian
> could move to that release before their freeze during the summer.
>
> Comments?
>
> Thanks,
> Micah
>
>

I forgot the link to the wiki page describing this:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecognizedDerivatives

Thanks,
Micah

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Old 12-07-2011, 12:56 PM
Charlie Kravetz
 
Default Xubuntu LTS proposal

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, 07 Dec 2011 05:27:08 -0600
Micah Gersten <micahg@ubuntu.com> wrote:

> So, as discussed around UDS time, we need to make an official request
> for Xubuntu to be labeled as an LTS release.
> Here are what I think we can sanely commit to:
>
> 3 yr LTS
> Milestone image testing i386/amd64 (including point release updates post
> release)
> Best effort High/Critical bug fixes
> Best effort security fixes for Xfce related packages
>
> This would be made easier if Xubuntu Precise would be aligned with
> Debian for their Wheezy release with the same base Xfce version. With a
> proposed March 2012 release date for 4.10, it's possible that Debian
> could move to that release before their freeze during the summer.
>
> Comments?
>
> Thanks,
> Micah
>
>

I agree completely with this proprosal. Having official LTS status
allows Xubuntu to have the updated images, which saves users a great
deal of bandwidth. It also allows those using the Long Term Support
release to receive updates throughout the release lifetime.

- --
Charlie Kravetz
Linux Registered User Number 425914 [http://counter.li.org/]
Never let anyone steal your DREAM. [http://keepingdreams.com]
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Old 12-07-2011, 07:26 PM
Elizabeth Krumbach
 
Default Xubuntu LTS proposal

On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 3:27 AM, Micah Gersten <micahg@ubuntu.com> wrote:
> So, as discussed around UDS time, we need to make an official request
> for Xubuntu to be labeled as an LTS release.
> Here are what I think we can sanely commit to:
>
> 3 yr LTS

Since Ubuntu is switching to 5 year LTS Desktop, are the derivatives
required to as well to be considered LTS? Or can we have a 3 year LTS?

--
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http://www.princessleia.com

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Old 12-07-2011, 07:38 PM
Charlie Kravetz
 
Default Xubuntu LTS proposal

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, 7 Dec 2011 12:26:40 -0800
Elizabeth Krumbach <lyz@ubuntu.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 3:27 AM, Micah Gersten <micahg@ubuntu.com> wrote:
> > So, as discussed around UDS time, we need to make an official request
> > for Xubuntu to be labeled as an LTS release.
> > Here are what I think we can sanely commit to:
> >
> > 3 yr LTS
>
> Since Ubuntu is switching to 5 year LTS Desktop, are the derivatives
> required to as well to be considered LTS? Or can we have a 3 year LTS?
>

Per the spec written at UDS and referenced by Micah, we can have 3 year
or 5 year LTS. It is a decision made by the Project Lead when applying
for LTS status.

- --
Charlie Kravetz
Linux Registered User Number 425914 [http://counter.li.org/]
Never let anyone steal your DREAM. [http://keepingdreams.com]
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Old 12-07-2011, 11:58 PM
Chris
 
Default Xubuntu LTS proposal

I'm not sure how LTS are defined with Canonical/Ubuntu, but as far as I know will Lubuntu (the youngest addition in the flavor rack) will not have a LTS. Simply because of lacking manpower.
With metta, Chris



On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 21:38, Charlie Kravetz <cjk@teamcharliesangels.com> wrote:


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Hash: SHA1



On Wed, 7 Dec 2011 12:26:40 -0800

Elizabeth Krumbach <lyz@ubuntu.com> wrote:



> On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 3:27 AM, Micah Gersten <micahg@ubuntu.com> wrote:

> > So, as discussed around UDS time, we need to make an official request

> > for Xubuntu to be labeled as an LTS release.

> > Here are what I think we can sanely commit to:

> >

> > 3 yr LTS

>

> Since Ubuntu is switching to 5 year LTS Desktop, are the derivatives

> required to as well to be considered LTS? Or can we have a 3 year LTS?

>



Per the spec written at UDS and referenced by Micah, we can have 3 year

or 5 year LTS. It is a decision made by the Project Lead when applying

for LTS status.



- --

Charlie Kravetz

Linux Registered User Number 425914 * * * * *[http://counter.li.org/]

Never let anyone steal your DREAM. * * * * * [http://keepingdreams.com]

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Old 12-08-2011, 05:47 PM
Pasi Lallinaho
 
Default Xubuntu LTS proposal

On 12/07/2011 01:27 PM, Micah Gersten wrote:

So, as discussed around UDS time, we need to make an official request
for Xubuntu to be labeled as an LTS release.
Here are what I think we can sanely commit to:

3 yr LTS
Milestone image testing i386/amd64 (including point release updates post
release)
Best effort High/Critical bug fixes
Best effort security fixes for Xfce related packages

This would be made easier if Xubuntu Precise would be aligned with
Debian for their Wheezy release with the same base Xfce version. With a
proposed March 2012 release date for 4.10, it's possible that Debian
could move to that release before their freeze during the summer.

Comments?

Thanks,
Micah




This has a wikipage now for archiving purposes, at
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Precise/LTSCyclePlan


Feel free to add your comments to the wiki as well. It will be reviewed
on our next community meeting where we will formally vote about using
this plan or not.


Pasi

--
Pasi Lallinaho (knome) » http://open.knome.fi/
Leader of Xubuntu and Shimmer Project » http://shimmerproject.org/
Graphic artist, webdesigner, Ubuntu member » http://xubuntu.org/


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Old 12-11-2011, 12:10 PM
Lionel Le Folgoc
 
Default Xubuntu LTS proposal

Hi,

Thanks for working on this topic.

On Wed, Dec 07, 2011 at 05:27:08AM -0600, Micah Gersten wrote:
> So, as discussed around UDS time, we need to make an official request
> for Xubuntu to be labeled as an LTS release.
> Here are what I think we can sanely commit to:
>
> 3 yr LTS
> Milestone image testing i386/amd64 (including point release updates post
> release)

That's fine to me, as long as people are able to provide testing for so
much time (either milestone image or stable release updates).

> Best effort High/Critical bug fixes

We already do something like that (I can roughly define our current way
as: "Remember to fix important bugs in older releases when we have time
and didn't forget about them because someone has used the 'nominate for
release' button on Launchpad or because many people are complaining on
forums or mailing lists").

I'm not sure that users are happy with it though, i.e. if they feel that
there's no support after a release, or that updates take so much time to
be distributed that they had to rely on PPAs (and so we've lost testers
for stable release updates).

> Best effort security fixes for Xfce related packages

There have been very few bugs flagged as security issues in Xfce
(CVE-2007-3770 and CVE-2011-1588 are the only recent ones I'm aware of
-- also the disputed CVE-2009-4996), so I agree we can commit to that
sanely.

>
> This would be made easier if Xubuntu Precise would be aligned with
> Debian for their Wheezy release with the same base Xfce version. With a
> proposed March 2012 release date for 4.10, it's possible that Debian
> could move to that release before their freeze during the summer.
>

Due to the reduced number of active Xfce developers, their release
schedule isn't very reliableā€¦ That's why I didn't want to target 4.10
for precise (Debian has 2 or 3 extra months before their freeze). Now if
many people here think the opposite, I don't want to prevent them from
working on that goal, we can still go for it. That might imply a buggy
release though, with bugs fixed by lots of -proposed/-updates uploads
shortly after (similar to what is done for other parts of Ubuntu ;-).


> Comments?
>
> Thanks,
> Micah
>

Regards,

--
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Old 12-12-2011, 08:29 AM
Pasi Lallinaho
 
Default Xubuntu LTS proposal

Hey Lionel,



good to hear your thoughts too.



On 12/11/2011 03:10 PM, Lionel Le Folgoc wrote:

Hi,

Thanks for working on this topic.

On Wed, Dec 07, 2011 at 05:27:08AM -0600, Micah Gersten wrote:


So, as discussed around UDS time, we need to make an official request
for Xubuntu to be labeled as an LTS release.
Here are what I think we can sanely commit to:

3 yr LTS
Milestone image testing i386/amd64 (including point release updates post
release)



That's fine to me, as long as people are able to provide testing for so
much time (either milestone image or stable release updates).




As the testing team seems to be quite healthy now, I don't see why
this wouldn't be possible. Testing team, what are your thoughts?





Best effort High/Critical bug fixes



We already do something like that (I can roughly define our current way
as: "Remember to fix important bugs in older releases when we have time
and didn't forget about them because someone has used the 'nominate for
release' button on Launchpad or because many people are complaining on
forums or mailing lists").

I'm not sure that users are happy with it though, i.e. if they feel that
there's no support after a release, or that updates take so much time to
be distributed that they had to rely on PPAs (and so we've lost testers
for stable release updates).




I don't see how they would be unhappy. We have a way to file
(important) bugs in older releases, and if people fail to file them
correctly or in fair amount of time after they saw the bug, there's
not much we can do about the bugs, unless we spot them ourselves. As
far as I understand, our bug triaging works very well too, so that
shouldn't be the problem. If it's about developers not having enough
time, I hope there is more communication - espeacially now as we
share Xfce with Ubuntu Studio - they might be able to fix a number
of bugs too.





Best effort security fixes for Xfce related packages



There have been very few bugs flagged as security issues in Xfce
(CVE-2007-3770 and CVE-2011-1588 are the only recent ones I'm aware of
-- also the disputed CVE-2009-4996), so I agree we can commit to that
sanely.




This would be made easier if Xubuntu Precise would be aligned with
Debian for their Wheezy release with the same base Xfce version. With a
proposed March 2012 release date for 4.10, it's possible that Debian
could move to that release before their freeze during the summer.




Due to the reduced number of active Xfce developers, their release
schedule isn't very reliableā€¦ That's why I didn't want to target 4.10
for precise (Debian has 2 or 3 extra months before their freeze). Now if
many people here think the opposite, I don't want to prevent them from
working on that goal, we can still go for it. That might imply a buggy
release though, with bugs fixed by lots of -proposed/-updates uploads
shortly after (similar to what is done for other parts of Ubuntu ;-).



For the 12.04 LTS, I'd want as stable system as possible, even if
that meant not pushing 4.10 in, even if it was released (half-baked)
on time.





Comments?

Thanks,
Micah




Regards,










Cheers,

Pasi

--
Pasi Lallinaho (knome) Ā» http://open.knome.fi/
Leader of Xubuntu and Shimmer Project Ā»Ā*http://shimmerproject.org/
Graphic artist, webdesigner, Ubuntu member Ā» http://xubuntu.org/


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Old 12-12-2011, 01:09 PM
Charlie Kravetz
 
Default Xubuntu LTS proposal

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 11:29:40 +0200
Pasi Lallinaho <pasi@shimmerproject.org> wrote:

> Hey Lionel,
>
> good to hear your thoughts too.
>
> On 12/11/2011 03:10 PM, Lionel Le Folgoc wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Thanks for working on this topic.
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 07, 2011 at 05:27:08AM -0600, Micah Gersten wrote:
> >> So, as discussed around UDS time, we need to make an official request
> >> for Xubuntu to be labeled as an LTS release.
> >> Here are what I think we can sanely commit to:
> >>
> >> 3 yr LTS
> >> Milestone image testing i386/amd64 (including point release updates post
> >> release)
> > That's fine to me, as long as people are able to provide testing for so
> > much time (either milestone image or stable release updates).
>
> As the testing team seems to be quite healthy now, I don't see why this
> wouldn't be possible. Testing team, what are your thoughts?

Since I do the majority of the milestone testing, I don't see any
issues. I already test Ubuntu for the milestones, I can just as easily
test Xubuntu instead.

>
> >> Best effort High/Critical bug fixes
> > We already do something like that (I can roughly define our current way
> > as: "Remember to fix important bugs in older releases when we have time
> > and didn't forget about them because someone has used the 'nominate for
> > release' button on Launchpad or because many people are complaining on
> > forums or mailing lists").
> >
> > I'm not sure that users are happy with it though, i.e. if they feel that
> > there's no support after a release, or that updates take so much time to
> > be distributed that they had to rely on PPAs (and so we've lost testers
> > for stable release updates).
>
> I don't see how they would be unhappy. We have a way to file (important)
> bugs in older releases, and if people fail to file them correctly or in
> fair amount of time after they saw the bug, there's not much we can do
> about the bugs, unless we spot them ourselves. As far as I understand,
> our bug triaging works very well too, so that shouldn't be the problem.
> If it's about developers not having enough time, I hope there is more
> communication - espeacially now as we share Xfce with Ubuntu Studio -
> they might be able to fix a number of bugs too.
>
> >> Best effort security fixes for Xfce related packages
> > There have been very few bugs flagged as security issues in Xfce
> > (CVE-2007-3770 and CVE-2011-1588 are the only recent ones I'm aware of
> > -- also the disputed CVE-2009-4996), so I agree we can commit to that
> > sanely.
> >
> >> This would be made easier if Xubuntu Precise would be aligned with
> >> Debian for their Wheezy release with the same base Xfce version. With a
> >> proposed March 2012 release date for 4.10, it's possible that Debian
> >> could move to that release before their freeze during the summer.
> >>
> > Due to the reduced number of active Xfce developers, their release
> > schedule isn't very reliable... That's why I didn't want to target 4.10
> > for precise (Debian has 2 or 3 extra months before their freeze). Now if
> > many people here think the opposite, I don't want to prevent them from
> > working on that goal, we can still go for it. That might imply a buggy
> > release though, with bugs fixed by lots of -proposed/-updates uploads
> > shortly after (similar to what is done for other parts of Ubuntu ;-).
>
> For the 12.04 LTS, I'd want as stable system as possible, even if that
> meant not pushing 4.10 in, even if it was released (half-baked) on time.
>
> >> Comments?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Micah
> >>
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> >
>
> Cheers,
> Pasi
>


- --
Charlie Kravetz
Linux Registered User Number 425914 [http://counter.li.org/]
Never let anyone steal your DREAM. [http://keepingdreams.com]
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