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Old 11-29-2011, 09:33 PM
Eero Tamminen
 
Default Xubuntu "papercuts" and push for getting translations?

Hi,

I don't have currently a working Xubuntu installation (disk broke), and
don't have time to test Alpha/Beta ISOs, but I would have some suggestions
on what to check from the test ISOs, based on looking at few different
distros recent live-CDs with following requirements in mind:

1. Well localized (in my case, to Finnish)
2. Robust, doesn't crash etc
3. Easy to use; automatic security updates, codec & locale installation,
geek stuff is behind andvanced settings, UI is consistent etc
4. Stable, doesn't change UI or apps in every release
5. Mature, has the basic features one expects from moderm desktop
6. Needs to work on older HW (0.75GB RAM, 1.4Ghz single core CPU,
not much 3D accel to speak of)

(The distro I'm looking for would be something I set up for older
relatives.)

So far I've tested within last week:
* Windows 7 (on newer machine)
* Ubuntu Unity 10.10 -> web demo looked fine, live-CD froze at bootup
* OpenSUSE Gnome 12.1 -> went to ugly/slow Gnome3 fallback mode
* OpenSUSE LXDE 11.4 -> lacking in localization and app features
* Debian Stable -> lacking on automation

Xubuntu 11.10 seemed more suitable than above ones.


However, there were several trivial issues in Xubuntu 11.10 that
it would be nice if somebody could check in the test releases
and see if they could get fixed for the next LTS release:

* Calendar applet (Orage). Unlike in all other distros/desktops
and unlike all other Xubuntu panel applets, right clicking on
the applet doesn't open the calendar below the applet. You
need to double-click and Calendar opens inconveniently to
the middle of the screen.

(Seems like easy to fix "papercut".)

* Many of the items in the applications menu have just "some wierd"
app name which doesn't describe what it is for. For example:
Catfish, Leafpad, Onboard, Xfburn, gThumb, Transmission, Gigolo,
GParted, IBus, Abiword, Gnumeric, Parole (, gmusicbrowser).

It would be good to have a proper name for each of the applications
on the default install (Parole was even lacking a mouse-over
description telling what it was for).

Updating these needs localization changes too...

* While Xubuntu has fairly OK localization for a Linux distro, it's
clearly inferior to Windows or OSX. Is there any effort before
releases to get localization coverage statistics for the default apps
and to get things which aren't fully translated, fixed by poking
translators and requesting translation help on the devel/user
list/blogs?

(I could do some Finnish translations this and next week if somebody
handles pushing the translated message catalogs forward.)

* High contract mode makes some icons to lose nearly all contrast
they had because of the colors used in them.

-> High contrast mode may need its own icons...

* Of all these distros, Xubuntu website provides by far least
info on itself, even the screenshots are just tiny/useless
thumbnails (Ubuntu "live" demo within browser was best...).

The roadmap blueprints listed an item for the website, but not much
details and there were no mentions on roadmap about other points
I mentioned above.


- Eero

PS. This is what I skipped in my tests:
- KDE4 stuff, I assumed it to have same issues as Gnome3 stuff
- MiNT Linux, it lives on sponsoring and seems a bit on geeky side,
so its stability / long term prospects seem less guaranteed
- Fedora, as it's not really intended for LTS like usage

--
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Old 11-29-2011, 10:15 PM
Charlie Kravetz
 
Default Xubuntu "papercuts" and push for getting translations?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 00:33:39 +0200
Eero Tamminen <oak@helsinkinet.fi> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I don't have currently a working Xubuntu installation (disk broke), and
> don't have time to test Alpha/Beta ISOs, but I would have some suggestions
> on what to check from the test ISOs, based on looking at few different
> distros recent live-CDs with following requirements in mind:
>
> 1. Well localized (in my case, to Finnish)
> 2. Robust, doesn't crash etc
> 3. Easy to use; automatic security updates, codec & locale installation,
> geek stuff is behind andvanced settings, UI is consistent etc
> 4. Stable, doesn't change UI or apps in every release
> 5. Mature, has the basic features one expects from moderm desktop
> 6. Needs to work on older HW (0.75GB RAM, 1.4Ghz single core CPU,
> not much 3D accel to speak of)
>
> (The distro I'm looking for would be something I set up for older
> relatives.)
>
> So far I've tested within last week:
> * Windows 7 (on newer machine)
> * Ubuntu Unity 10.10 -> web demo looked fine, live-CD froze at bootup
> * OpenSUSE Gnome 12.1 -> went to ugly/slow Gnome3 fallback mode
> * OpenSUSE LXDE 11.4 -> lacking in localization and app features
> * Debian Stable -> lacking on automation
>
> Xubuntu 11.10 seemed more suitable than above ones.
>
>
> However, there were several trivial issues in Xubuntu 11.10 that
> it would be nice if somebody could check in the test releases
> and see if they could get fixed for the next LTS release:
>
> * Calendar applet (Orage). Unlike in all other distros/desktops
> and unlike all other Xubuntu panel applets, right clicking on
> the applet doesn't open the calendar below the applet. You
> need to double-click and Calendar opens inconveniently to
> the middle of the screen.
>
> (Seems like easy to fix "papercut".)
>
> * Many of the items in the applications menu have just "some wierd"
> app name which doesn't describe what it is for. For example:
> Catfish, Leafpad, Onboard, Xfburn, gThumb, Transmission, Gigolo,
> GParted, IBus, Abiword, Gnumeric, Parole (, gmusicbrowser).
>
> It would be good to have a proper name for each of the applications
> on the default install (Parole was even lacking a mouse-over
> description telling what it was for).
>
> Updating these needs localization changes too...
>
> * While Xubuntu has fairly OK localization for a Linux distro, it's
> clearly inferior to Windows or OSX. Is there any effort before
> releases to get localization coverage statistics for the default apps
> and to get things which aren't fully translated, fixed by poking
> translators and requesting translation help on the devel/user
> list/blogs?
>
> (I could do some Finnish translations this and next week if somebody
> handles pushing the translated message catalogs forward.)
>
> * High contract mode makes some icons to lose nearly all contrast
> they had because of the colors used in them.
>
> -> High contrast mode may need its own icons...
>
> * Of all these distros, Xubuntu website provides by far least
> info on itself, even the screenshots are just tiny/useless
> thumbnails (Ubuntu "live" demo within browser was best...).
>
> The roadmap blueprints listed an item for the website, but not much
> details and there were no mentions on roadmap about other points
> I mentioned above.
>
>
> - Eero
>
> PS. This is what I skipped in my tests:
> - KDE4 stuff, I assumed it to have same issues as Gnome3 stuff
> - MiNT Linux, it lives on sponsoring and seems a bit on geeky side,
> so its stability / long term prospects seem less guaranteed
> - Fedora, as it's not really intended for LTS like usage
>

Please do NOT expect Alpha1 to be fully usable. This is the first
images of a new release cycle. They are expected to be installable, not
ready for users.

- --
Charlie Kravetz
Linux Registered User Number 425914 [http://counter.li.org/]
Never let anyone steal your DREAM. [http://keepingdreams.com]
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Old 11-30-2011, 04:16 AM
Alok
 
Default Xubuntu "papercuts" and push for getting translations?

This is a nice set of papercuts i would too like to be fixed in by the time the LTS is released. Some of these might not be as easy as they look.

On 30 November 2011 04:45, Charlie Kravetz <cjk@teamcharliesangels.com> wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Hash: SHA1



On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 00:33:39 +0200

Eero Tamminen <oak@helsinkinet.fi> wrote:



> Hi,

>

> I don't have currently a working Xubuntu installation (disk broke), and

> don't have time to test Alpha/Beta ISOs, but I would have some suggestions

> on what to check from the test ISOs, based on looking at few different

> distros recent live-CDs with following requirements in mind:

>

> 1. Well localized (in my case, to Finnish)

> 2. Robust, doesn't crash etc

> 3. Easy to use; automatic security updates, codec & locale installation,

> * *geek stuff is behind andvanced settings, UI is consistent etc

> 4. Stable, doesn't change UI or apps in every release

> 5. Mature, has the basic features one expects from moderm desktop

> 6. Needs to work on older HW (0.75GB RAM, 1.4Ghz single core CPU,

> * *not much 3D accel to speak of)

>

> (The distro I'm looking for would be something I set up for older

> relatives.)

>

> So far I've tested within last week:

> * Windows 7 (on newer machine)

> * Ubuntu Unity 10.10 -> web demo looked fine, live-CD froze at bootup

> * OpenSUSE Gnome 12.1 -> went to ugly/slow Gnome3 fallback mode

> * OpenSUSE LXDE 11.4 -> lacking in localization and app features

> * Debian Stable -> lacking on automation

>

> Xubuntu 11.10 seemed more suitable than above ones.

>

>

> However, there were several trivial issues in Xubuntu 11.10 that

> it would be nice if somebody could check in the test releases

> and see if they could get fixed for the next LTS release:

>

> * Calendar applet (Orage). *Unlike in all other distros/desktops

> * and unlike all other Xubuntu panel applets, right clicking on

> * the applet doesn't open the calendar below the applet. *You

> * need to double-click and Calendar opens inconveniently to

> * the middle of the screen.

>

> * (Seems like easy to fix "papercut".)

>

> * Many of the items in the applications menu have just "some wierd"

> * app name which doesn't describe what it is for. *For example:

> * Catfish, Leafpad, Onboard, Xfburn, gThumb, Transmission, Gigolo,

> * GParted, IBus, Abiword, Gnumeric, Parole (, gmusicbrowser).

>

> * It would be good to have a proper name for each of the applications

> * on the default install (Parole was even lacking a mouse-over

> * description telling what it was for).

>

> * Updating these needs localization changes too...

>

> * While Xubuntu has fairly OK localization for a Linux distro, it's

> * clearly inferior to Windows or OSX. *Is there any effort before

> * releases to get localization coverage statistics for the default apps

> * and to get things which aren't fully translated, fixed by poking

> * translators and requesting translation help on the devel/user

> * list/blogs?

>

> * (I could do some Finnish translations this and next week if somebody

> * handles pushing the translated message catalogs forward.)

>

> * High contract mode makes some icons to lose nearly all contrast

> * they had because of the colors used in them.

>

> * -> High contrast mode may need its own icons...

>

> * Of all these distros, Xubuntu website provides by far least

> * info on itself, even the screenshots are just tiny/useless

> * thumbnails (Ubuntu "live" demo within browser was best...).

>

> The roadmap blueprints listed an item for the website, but not much

> details and there were no mentions on roadmap about other points

> I mentioned above.

>

>

> * * * - Eero

>

> PS. This is what I skipped in my tests:

> - KDE4 stuff, I assumed it to have same issues as Gnome3 stuff

> - MiNT Linux, it lives on sponsoring and seems a bit on geeky side,

> * so its stability / long term prospects seem less guaranteed

> - Fedora, as it's not really intended for LTS like usage

>



Please do NOT expect Alpha1 to be fully usable. This is the first

images of a new release cycle. They are expected to be installable, not

ready for users.



- --

Charlie Kravetz

Linux Registered User Number 425914 * * * * *[http://counter.li.org/]

Never let anyone steal your DREAM. * * * * * [http://keepingdreams.com]

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https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel



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Old 12-02-2011, 07:42 PM
Eero Tamminen
 
Default Xubuntu "papercuts" and push for getting translations?

Hi,

On keskiviikko 30 marraskuu 2011, Charlie Kravetz wrote:
> Please do NOT expect Alpha1 to be fully usable. This is the first
> images of a new release cycle. They are expected to be installable,
> not ready for users.

My list of papercuts which one can see right after booting, were from 11.10,
which I hope would be possible to fix for next release.


There are also additional issues in 11.10 which seems regressions from
the previous 10.4 LTS release. I think at least first one is important
usability issue if it happens also in next release:

* When clicking in Browser on a link with non-recognized media type,
there's just an error dialog instead of a codec install dialog.
This happens at least for RTSP media stream links. For example
any of the ones here:
http://m.yle.fi/w/areena/

* Bootup and shutdown take at least twice as long as in 10.04.
(when autologin is used)

* When toggling Composite off (because it's slow on older HW),
top panel disappears. It comes back only when either compositing
is toggled back, or one goes to panel settings.

* If X fails to start, bootup is frozen to progress screen instead
of dropping user to console / non-graphical runlevel where the issue
can be debugged & fixed and which outputs instructions how to proceed[2].
Test-case[1]:
sudo echo "foobar" > /etc/X11/xorg.conf
sudo reboot

(I'm not sure whether last one is regression from Xubuntu 10.04, but
I remember there being a bug about it that was fixed long time ago
in Ubuntu. I guess it came back(?) because of the switch to lighdm
and how switch from plymouth to that is implemented in Xubuntu.)


- Eero

[1] This is how I fixed in 11.10 above kind of issue:
1. boot in "safe" mode,
2. log in,
3. and do:
sudo rm /etc/X11/xorg.conf
sudo start lightdm

[2] Something along these lines:
----
X server failed to start. You need either to remove or fix the settings
in /etc/X11/xorg.conf and try whether X server starts fine after that by
using:
sudo start lightdm
----

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