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Old 08-11-2011, 10:46 PM
Charlie Kravetz
 
Default Amendment to the Xubuntu Strategy Document - Final request for comments

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I am planning to revise the Strategy Document for electing the next
project lead. Since this does change the governing directive, your
comments are welcome, either opposed or for the change.

Accordingly to the Xubuntu Strategy Document
(https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument#Xubuntu_Project_Lead_.28XPL.29):

/quote
The Xubuntu project lead serves a term of three releases after which he
or she must seek reconfirmation from the Xubuntu community via a public
meeting. If consensus is unable to be found, the matter is referred to
the Ubuntu Community Council.
/end quote/

Since this is all that is said about choosing the project lead, I am
proposing the following amendment to the Xubuntu Strategy
Document. I would really appreciate your thoughts and input on this.


The Xubuntu project lead is chosen by a popular vote during a Community
Meeting. Those elgible to vote are the members of the Xubuntu Users
team in launchpad. This team includes both Xubuntu Contributors and
Xubuntu Council, thus will be able to choose an effective project lead.
Project lead nominations are made one month in advance of the election,
by members of Xubuntu Users. These nominations may be submitted by an
individual nominating themselves or someone else. The leader be voted
on during a Xubuntu community meeting.

It is recommended that nominees add relevant information for the
election to their personal wiki pages (eg: activities in the relevant
team and specific interests today, thoughts about the most important
challenges of the team in the next year, what you'd like to see change
in the team, work to focus on as the project leader).

The project lead is to be the person receiving a simple majority vote.
The person receiving the second highest vote will be the interim
project lead should the project lead be unable to fulfill the entire
term.


- --
Charlie Kravetz
Xubuntu Project Lead
Linux Registered User Number 425914 [http://counter.li.org/]
Never let anyone steal your DREAM. [http://keepingdreams.com]
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Old 08-11-2011, 11:38 PM
Bruno Benitez
 
Default Amendment to the Xubuntu Strategy Document - Final request for comments

2011/8/11 Charlie Kravetz <cjk@teamcharliesangels.com>



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oh, yes, I don't know if
I'm able to vote or no, but then again I do support this idea. I think
it is clear and simple, if its worth something I say go on please.




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Old 08-12-2011, 08:27 AM
Jarno Suni
 
Default Amendment to the Xubuntu Strategy Document - Final request for comments

I find that too bureaucratic. It is better to communicate in the
project and let your deeds speak for themselves. I think Xubuntu
should not be a one man's project, but aim at common interest, ease to
configure to your personal needs. Less is more.

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Old 08-12-2011, 01:08 PM
Charlie Kravetz
 
Default Amendment to the Xubuntu Strategy Document - Final request for comments

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Hash: SHA1

On Fri, 12 Aug 2011 11:27:56 +0300
Jarno Suni <jarno.ilari.suni@gmail.com> wrote:

> I find that too bureaucratic. It is better to communicate in the
> project and let your deeds speak for themselves. I think Xubuntu
> should not be a one man's project, but aim at common interest, ease to
> configure to your personal needs. Less is more.
>

You find having a leader that can actually make a decision bureaucratic
or you find selecting a leader bureaucratic?

I fail to see the connection between having a project lead and "one
man's project". There is a huge difference, and they are not the same.

- --
Charlie Kravetz
Linux Registered User Number 425914 [http://counter.li.org/]
Never let anyone steal your DREAM. [http://keepingdreams.com]
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Old 08-12-2011, 01:37 PM
Charlie Kravetz
 
Default Amendment to the Xubuntu Strategy Document - Final request for comments

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Fri, 12 Aug 2011 07:08:22 -0600
Charlie Kravetz <cjk@teamcharliesangels.com> wrote:

>
> On Fri, 12 Aug 2011 11:27:56 +0300
> Jarno Suni <jarno.ilari.suni@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I find that too bureaucratic. It is better to communicate in the
> > project and let your deeds speak for themselves. I think Xubuntu
> > should not be a one man's project, but aim at common interest, ease to
> > configure to your personal needs. Less is more.
> >
>
> You find having a leader that can actually make a decision bureaucratic
> or you find selecting a leader bureaucratic?
>
> I fail to see the connection between having a project lead and "one
> man's project". There is a huge difference, and they are not the same.
>

Perhaps I should also have stated that this is not a debate about
whether or not to have a project leader, but only a way to pick that
leader. The Strategy Document guides the governance of Xubuntu. It
already states there will be a project leader. That isn't going to be
changed.

- --
Charlie Kravetz
Linux Registered User Number 425914 [http://counter.li.org/]
Never let anyone steal your DREAM. [http://keepingdreams.com]
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Old 08-14-2011, 08:45 PM
Janne Jokitalo
 
Default Amendment to the Xubuntu Strategy Document - Final request for comments

On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 04:46:44PM -0600, Charlie Kravetz wrote:
> I am planning to revise the Strategy Document for electing the next
> project lead. Since this does change the governing directive, your
> comments are welcome, either opposed or for the change.

+1

That should just work, and AFAIUI that's the way it is done in several other
*buntu teams.


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Old 08-14-2011, 08:56 PM
Micah Gersten
 
Default Amendment to the Xubuntu Strategy Document - Final request for comments

On 08/11/2011 05:46 PM, Charlie Kravetz wrote:
> I am planning to revise the Strategy Document for electing the next
> project lead. Since this does change the governing directive, your
> comments are welcome, either opposed or for the change.
>
> Accordingly to the Xubuntu Strategy Document
> (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument#Xubuntu_Project_Lead_.28XPL.29):
>
> /quote
> The Xubuntu project lead serves a term of three releases after which he
> or she must seek reconfirmation from the Xubuntu community via a public
> meeting. If consensus is unable to be found, the matter is referred to
> the Ubuntu Community Council.
> /end quote/
>
> Since this is all that is said about choosing the project lead, I am
> proposing the following amendment to the Xubuntu Strategy
> Document. I would really appreciate your thoughts and input on this.
>
>
> The Xubuntu project lead is chosen by a popular vote during a Community
> Meeting. Those elgible to vote are the members of the Xubuntu Users
> team in launchpad. This team includes both Xubuntu Contributors and
> Xubuntu Council, thus will be able to choose an effective project lead.
> Project lead nominations are made one month in advance of the election,
> by members of Xubuntu Users. These nominations may be submitted by an
> individual nominating themselves or someone else. The leader be voted
> on during a Xubuntu community meeting.
>
> It is recommended that nominees add relevant information for the
> election to their personal wiki pages (eg: activities in the relevant
> team and specific interests today, thoughts about the most important
> challenges of the team in the next year, what you'd like to see change
> in the team, work to focus on as the project leader).
>
> The project lead is to be the person receiving a simple majority vote.
> The person receiving the second highest vote will be the interim
> project lead should the project lead be unable to fulfill the entire
> term.
>
>

This seems fine except the part about being chosen from the Xubuntu
Users team. This is an open team that anyone can join and while
inclusiveness is good, choosing a project lead should be IMHO done by
people actually involved with the project. Perhaps that Xubuntu Team
team is more appropriate since this is moderated.

Thanks,
Micah


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Old 08-14-2011, 09:26 PM
Charlie Kravetz
 
Default Amendment to the Xubuntu Strategy Document - Final request for comments

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 15:56:28 -0500
Micah Gersten <micahg@ubuntu.com> wrote:

> On 08/11/2011 05:46 PM, Charlie Kravetz wrote:
> > I am planning to revise the Strategy Document for electing the next
> > project lead. Since this does change the governing directive, your
> > comments are welcome, either opposed or for the change.
> >
> > Accordingly to the Xubuntu Strategy Document
> > (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument#Xubuntu_Project_Lead_.28XPL.29):
> >
> > /quote
> > The Xubuntu project lead serves a term of three releases after which he
> > or she must seek reconfirmation from the Xubuntu community via a public
> > meeting. If consensus is unable to be found, the matter is referred to
> > the Ubuntu Community Council.
> > /end quote/
> >
> > Since this is all that is said about choosing the project lead, I am
> > proposing the following amendment to the Xubuntu Strategy
> > Document. I would really appreciate your thoughts and input on this.
> >
> >
> > The Xubuntu project lead is chosen by a popular vote during a Community
> > Meeting. Those elgible to vote are the members of the Xubuntu Users
> > team in launchpad. This team includes both Xubuntu Contributors and
> > Xubuntu Council, thus will be able to choose an effective project lead.
> > Project lead nominations are made one month in advance of the election,
> > by members of Xubuntu Users. These nominations may be submitted by an
> > individual nominating themselves or someone else. The leader be voted
> > on during a Xubuntu community meeting.
> >
> > It is recommended that nominees add relevant information for the
> > election to their personal wiki pages (eg: activities in the relevant
> > team and specific interests today, thoughts about the most important
> > challenges of the team in the next year, what you'd like to see change
> > in the team, work to focus on as the project leader).
> >
> > The project lead is to be the person receiving a simple majority vote.
> > The person receiving the second highest vote will be the interim
> > project lead should the project lead be unable to fulfill the entire
> > term.
> >
> >
>
> This seems fine except the part about being chosen from the Xubuntu
> Users team. This is an open team that anyone can join and while
> inclusiveness is good, choosing a project lead should be IMHO done by
> people actually involved with the project. Perhaps that Xubuntu Team
> team is more appropriate since this is moderated.
>
> Thanks,
> Micah
>
>

I went with Xubuntu Users explicitly because it is a public team. Since
the Strategy Document already says
"he or she must seek reconfirmation from the Xubuntu community via a
public meeting". I wanted to stay within that intent to keep it public
whenever possible. If there is a concensus on this, I will change it to
read Xubuntu Team, which would be a much smaller group, and is users
approved by the current project leader only. However, it seems to me
that would allow the project lead to "stack the deck" in their favor.

- --
Charlie Kravetz
Linux Registered User Number 425914 [http://counter.li.org/]
Never let anyone steal your DREAM. [http://keepingdreams.com]
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Old 08-14-2011, 09:33 PM
Micah Gersten
 
Default Amendment to the Xubuntu Strategy Document - Final request for comments

On 08/14/2011 04:26 PM, Charlie Kravetz wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 15:56:28 -0500
> Micah Gersten <micahg@ubuntu.com> wrote:
>
> > On 08/11/2011 05:46 PM, Charlie Kravetz wrote:
> >> I am planning to revise the Strategy Document for electing the next
> >> project lead. Since this does change the governing directive, your
> >> comments are welcome, either opposed or for the change.
> >>
> >> Accordingly to the Xubuntu Strategy Document
> >>
> (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument#Xubuntu_Project_Lead_.28XPL.29):
> >>
> >> /quote
> >> The Xubuntu project lead serves a term of three releases after which he
> >> or she must seek reconfirmation from the Xubuntu community via a public
> >> meeting. If consensus is unable to be found, the matter is referred to
> >> the Ubuntu Community Council.
> >> /end quote/
> >>
> >> Since this is all that is said about choosing the project lead, I am
> >> proposing the following amendment to the Xubuntu Strategy
> >> Document. I would really appreciate your thoughts and input on this.
> >>
> >>
> >> The Xubuntu project lead is chosen by a popular vote during a Community
> >> Meeting. Those elgible to vote are the members of the Xubuntu Users
> >> team in launchpad. This team includes both Xubuntu Contributors and
> >> Xubuntu Council, thus will be able to choose an effective project lead.
> >> Project lead nominations are made one month in advance of the election,
> >> by members of Xubuntu Users. These nominations may be submitted by an
> >> individual nominating themselves or someone else. The leader be voted
> >> on during a Xubuntu community meeting.
> >>
> >> It is recommended that nominees add relevant information for the
> >> election to their personal wiki pages (eg: activities in the relevant
> >> team and specific interests today, thoughts about the most important
> >> challenges of the team in the next year, what you'd like to see change
> >> in the team, work to focus on as the project leader).
> >>
> >> The project lead is to be the person receiving a simple majority vote.
> >> The person receiving the second highest vote will be the interim
> >> project lead should the project lead be unable to fulfill the entire
> >> term.
> >>
> >>
>
> > This seems fine except the part about being chosen from the Xubuntu
> > Users team. This is an open team that anyone can join and while
> > inclusiveness is good, choosing a project lead should be IMHO done by
> > people actually involved with the project. Perhaps that Xubuntu Team
> > team is more appropriate since this is moderated.
>
> > Thanks,
> > Micah
>
>
>
> I went with Xubuntu Users explicitly because it is a public team. Since
> the Strategy Document already says
> "he or she must seek reconfirmation from the Xubuntu community via a
> public meeting". I wanted to stay within that intent to keep it public
> whenever possible. If there is a concensus on this, I will change it to
> read Xubuntu Team, which would be a much smaller group, and is users
> approved by the current project leader only. However, it seems to me
> that would allow the project lead to "stack the deck" in their favor.
>

That would seem to be problematic. My only concern is people could vote
on a project lead with no real interest so to speak in the project.
There doesn't seem to be a good way around this though. Perhaps the
Xubuntu Council could approve Xubuntu Team members?
Thanks,
Micah

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Old 08-14-2011, 11:10 PM
Charlie Kravetz
 
Default Amendment to the Xubuntu Strategy Document - Final request for comments

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 16:33:04 -0500
Micah Gersten <micahg@ubuntu.com> wrote:

> On 08/14/2011 04:26 PM, Charlie Kravetz wrote:
> > On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 15:56:28 -0500
> > Micah Gersten <micahg@ubuntu.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On 08/11/2011 05:46 PM, Charlie Kravetz wrote:
> > >> I am planning to revise the Strategy Document for electing the next
> > >> project lead. Since this does change the governing directive, your
> > >> comments are welcome, either opposed or for the change.
> > >>
> > >> Accordingly to the Xubuntu Strategy Document
> > >>
> > (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument#Xubuntu_Project_Lead_.28XPL.29):
> > >>
> > >> /quote
> > >> The Xubuntu project lead serves a term of three releases after which he
> > >> or she must seek reconfirmation from the Xubuntu community via a public
> > >> meeting. If consensus is unable to be found, the matter is referred to
> > >> the Ubuntu Community Council.
> > >> /end quote/
> > >>
> > >> Since this is all that is said about choosing the project lead, I am
> > >> proposing the following amendment to the Xubuntu Strategy
> > >> Document. I would really appreciate your thoughts and input on this.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> The Xubuntu project lead is chosen by a popular vote during a Community
> > >> Meeting. Those elgible to vote are the members of the Xubuntu Users
> > >> team in launchpad. This team includes both Xubuntu Contributors and
> > >> Xubuntu Council, thus will be able to choose an effective project lead.
> > >> Project lead nominations are made one month in advance of the election,
> > >> by members of Xubuntu Users. These nominations may be submitted by an
> > >> individual nominating themselves or someone else. The leader be voted
> > >> on during a Xubuntu community meeting.
> > >>
> > >> It is recommended that nominees add relevant information for the
> > >> election to their personal wiki pages (eg: activities in the relevant
> > >> team and specific interests today, thoughts about the most important
> > >> challenges of the team in the next year, what you'd like to see change
> > >> in the team, work to focus on as the project leader).
> > >>
> > >> The project lead is to be the person receiving a simple majority vote.
> > >> The person receiving the second highest vote will be the interim
> > >> project lead should the project lead be unable to fulfill the entire
> > >> term.
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> > > This seems fine except the part about being chosen from the Xubuntu
> > > Users team. This is an open team that anyone can join and while
> > > inclusiveness is good, choosing a project lead should be IMHO done by
> > > people actually involved with the project. Perhaps that Xubuntu Team
> > > team is more appropriate since this is moderated.
> >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Micah
> >
> >
> >
> > I went with Xubuntu Users explicitly because it is a public team. Since
> > the Strategy Document already says
> > "he or she must seek reconfirmation from the Xubuntu community via a
> > public meeting". I wanted to stay within that intent to keep it public
> > whenever possible. If there is a concensus on this, I will change it to
> > read Xubuntu Team, which would be a much smaller group, and is users
> > approved by the current project leader only. However, it seems to me
> > that would allow the project lead to "stack the deck" in their favor.
> >
>
> That would seem to be problematic. My only concern is people could vote
> on a project lead with no real interest so to speak in the project.
> There doesn't seem to be a good way around this though. Perhaps the
> Xubuntu Council could approve Xubuntu Team members?
> Thanks,
> Micah
>

I will have to look again. I think Xubuntu Team picked the council,
when we get there, but maybe not. Seems like those just signing up to
say they are on more team will not participate in the meetings anyway,
which will eliminate them as voters?

- --
Charlie Kravetz
Linux Registered User Number 425914 [http://counter.li.org/]
Never let anyone steal your DREAM. [http://keepingdreams.com]
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