FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor

Go Back   Linux Archive > Ubuntu > Xubuntu Development

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 07-24-2011, 03:29 PM
Anzan Hoshin Roshi
 
Default Replacing GIMP

On 24 July 2011 11:20, Charlie Kravetz <cjk@teamcharliesangels.com> wrote:


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Hash: SHA1



On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 10:04:55 +0300

Jarno Suni <jarno.ilari.suni@gmail.com> wrote:



> Suggesting to install the ubuntustudio-graphics metapackage and using

> it in Xubuntu session is not telling to use any other distribution. If

> Xubuntu is going to be all you need, I would expect some modularity

> and make the default installation a good starting point. I think it is

> great that Xubuntu users can benefit from the expertise of Ubuntu

> Studio developers in multimedia creation.

>



I'm sorry. I just don't seem to see any advantage to removing an

application simply to tell users they can use a different distribution

to get the application and use it. Why not just keep the application?

Wording it different does not change the end result. In my own mind, if

you tell me to just install a different distribution meta-package, I

wasted my time installing the distribution. I may as well go install

the other one, which you tell me has what I want.





- --

Charlie Kravetz

*Ubuntu Studio is changing to Xfce (using Xubuntu as a base) in any case.


Yours,Anzan*

--
xubuntu-devel mailing list
xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel
 
Old 07-24-2011, 03:45 PM
"Cory K."
 
Default Replacing GIMP

Since Studio keeps getting mentioned, I'll chime in.

We (Studio) are switching to *XFCE*. Not so much Xubuntu. (though I
know that was the wording) We just needed 1 pkg from Xubuntu to figure
out settings.

GIMP, while a great editor, can be a bit daunting. While it stung at
first, (because I love the app) I understand Ubuntu's rationale for
dropping it from default and would see how that would work for Xubuntu
as well.

Asking users to install "ubuntustudio-graphics" I would not say is a
great alternative. It pulls in alot of applications that your average
user might not want. It (ubuntustudio-graphics) is tailored to a
specific audience. *If* an alternative editor is chosen as default for
Xubuntu, and a user needs something more, it's just as easy to
recommend GIMP by itself.


PS: I used the wrong addy on my 1st email so it bounced. Please disregard.
--
-Cory K.
*Ubuntu Studio dev

--
xubuntu-devel mailing list
xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel
 
Old 07-25-2011, 11:18 AM
Pasi Lallinaho
 
Default Replacing GIMP

On 07/24/2011 06:20 PM, Charlie Kravetz wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 10:04:55 +0300
> Jarno Suni <jarno.ilari.suni@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Suggesting to install the ubuntustudio-graphics metapackage and using
> > it in Xubuntu session is not telling to use any other distribution. If
> > Xubuntu is going to be all you need, I would expect some modularity
> > and make the default installation a good starting point. I think it is
> > great that Xubuntu users can benefit from the expertise of Ubuntu
> > Studio developers in multimedia creation.
>
>
> I'm sorry. I just don't seem to see any advantage to removing an
> application simply to tell users they can use a different distribution
> to get the application and use it. Why not just keep the application?
> Wording it different does not change the end result. In my own mind, if
> you tell me to just install a different distribution meta-package, I
> wasted my time installing the distribution. I may as well go install
> the other one, which you tell me has what I want.
>
>
We're way off in the sidetracks here.

If you want to replace GIMP with any other graphics editing software in
the Xubuntu default installation, please start an application comparison
wiki page (please use [1]). Application comparing template exists at the
Ubuntu wiki too, see [2]. You can select this template when creating the
new page, just scroll to the bottom part of the list.

[1]
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Oneiric/DefaultImageEditor
[2]
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Template/ApplicationComparisonTemplate

--
Pasi Lallinaho http://open.knome.fi/
Leader of the Shimmer Project http://shimmerproject.org/
Graphic artist, webdesigner, Ubuntu member IRC: knome @ freenode


--
xubuntu-devel mailing list
xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel
 
Old 07-25-2011, 04:47 PM
Jarno Suni
 
Default Replacing GIMP

I don't think you waste time installing Xubuntu by additionally
complementing it by installing ubuntustudio-graphics. For those who
don't use drawing software, downloading and installing Gimp is waste
of time and capacity anyway. For me default Xubuntu has never been all
I need and I have always complemented it by some software. On the
other hand it has always had some software that I have not used.

If floating toolboxes of Gimp are disturbing, one option is to post a
feature request to Gimp. You can address the scary characters to
developers. Some software such as xine have different user interface
modes for people who have different experience level. Throwing all
work away is not the only option. You can make toolboxes float in
Pinta, too, BTW. (Once I made one of its toolbox float, I could not
undo it the way I wanted, though.)

It might not be wise to learn to use some random image manipulation
program and later notice it can not do what you want. The original
poster Bruno Benitez requested some standard simple editor, but I am
afraid it does not exist. Pinta is pretty new, I would not call it
standard, at least yet. However, its user interface might be somewhat
simpler.

--
xubuntu-devel mailing list
xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel
 
Old 07-25-2011, 05:23 PM
Bruno Benitez
 
Default Replacing GIMP

I do know that there is no such "standard image editor" but if we never start finding one, or adding one to our apps then we will never have one, I think there should be a "standard image editor" (pinta/gpaint/nathive/other) a "professional image editor" (GIMP/others) and then we could have "Image viewers" whit some "editing capabilities" (gpicview/gthumb).* I do not propose Pinta directly, It looks awesome in my opinion, but it does depend a lot on Mono, so if its choosen it wont ment a huge space saver either...


2011/7/25 Jarno Suni <jarno.ilari.suni@gmail.com>

I don't think you waste time installing Xubuntu by additionally

complementing it by installing ubuntustudio-graphics. For those who

don't use drawing software, downloading and installing Gimp is waste

of time and capacity anyway. For me default Xubuntu has never been all

I need and I have always complemented it by some software. On the

other hand it has always had some software that I have not used.



If floating toolboxes of Gimp are disturbing, one option is to post a

feature request to Gimp. You can address the scary characters to

developers. Some software such as xine have different user interface

modes for people who have different experience level. Throwing all

work away is not the only option. You can make toolboxes float in

Pinta, too, BTW. (Once I made one of its toolbox float, I could not

undo it the way I wanted, though.)



It might not be wise to learn to use some random image manipulation

program and later notice it can not do what you want. The original

poster Bruno Benitez requested some standard simple editor, but I am

afraid it does not exist. Pinta is pretty new, I would not call it

standard, at least yet. However, its user interface might be somewhat

simpler.



--

xubuntu-devel mailing list

xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com

https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel



--
Bruno.-


--
xubuntu-devel mailing list
xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel
 
Old 07-25-2011, 07:18 PM
Pasi Lallinaho
 
Default Replacing GIMP

On 07/25/2011 08:23 PM, Bruno Benitez wrote:
I do
know that there is no such "standard image editor" but if we
never start finding one, or adding one to our apps then we
will never have one, I think there should be a "standard image
editor" (pinta/gpaint/nathive/other) a
"professional image editor" (GIMP/others) and then we could
have "Image viewers" whit some "editing capabilities"
(gpicview/gthumb).* I do not propose Pinta directly, It looks
awesome in my opinion, but it does depend a lot on Mono, so if
its choosen it wont ment a huge space saver either...



--

Bruno.-






Jarno and Bruno,



please focus your energy in creating the application comparison. A
few good points to include would be:



1. What features do we expect an image editor to have, at least?

2. What do you think is the learning curve for the different
editors?

3. How light are the applications?

4. How mature are they in development?



Looking at the history of application comparisons and proposals in
Xubuntu, it seems that there is a high possibility to get change in
the defaults, as long as you are willing to work for it, and the
rationalizing is sufficient.



Cheers,

Pasi



P.S. (Just a personal preference Let's try to bottom-post (not
top-post) in the future, as it makes following the threads
(especially authors of mails) easier in the long run. Thanks!



--
Pasi Lallinaho http://open.knome.fi/
Leader of the Shimmer Project *http://shimmerproject.org/
Graphic artist, webdesigner, Ubuntu member IRC: knome @ freenode


--
xubuntu-devel mailing list
xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel
 
Old 07-25-2011, 10:09 PM
Vincent
 
Default Replacing GIMP

On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 9:18 PM, Pasi Lallinaho <pasi@shimmerproject.org> wrote:









On 07/25/2011 08:23 PM, Bruno Benitez wrote:
I do
know that there is no such "standard image editor" but if we
never start finding one, or adding one to our apps then we
will never have one, I think there should be a "standard image
editor" (pinta/gpaint/nathive/other) a
"professional image editor" (GIMP/others) and then we could
have "Image viewers" whit some "editing capabilities"
(gpicview/gthumb).* I do not propose Pinta directly, It looks
awesome in my opinion, but it does depend a lot on Mono, so if
its choosen it wont ment a huge space saver either...



--

Bruno.-






Jarno and Bruno,



please focus your energy in creating the application comparison. A
few good points to include would be:



1. What features do we expect an image editor to have, at least?

2. What do you think is the learning curve for the different
editors?

3. How light are the applications?

4. How mature are they in development?

For Pinta, I can already tell you that definitely isn't stable enough yet. GIMP unstable does have a single-window mode, but it's still rough around the edges.


*



Looking at the history of application comparisons and proposals in
Xubuntu, it seems that there is a high possibility to get change in
the defaults, as long as you are willing to work for it, and the
rationalizing is sufficient.



Cheers,

Pasi



P.S. (Just a personal preference Let's try to bottom-post (not
top-post) in the future, as it makes following the threads
(especially authors of mails) easier in the long run. Thanks!



--
Pasi Lallinaho http://open.knome.fi/
Leader of the Shimmer Project *http://shimmerproject.org/
Graphic artist, webdesigner, Ubuntu member IRC: knome @ freenode



--

xubuntu-devel mailing list

xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com

https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel




--
Vincent

--
xubuntu-devel mailing list
xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel
 
Old 07-26-2011, 09:42 AM
James Freer
 
Default Replacing GIMP

-----Original Message-----
From: Pasi Lallinaho <pasi@shimmerproject.org>
To: Xubuntu Development Discussion <xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com>
Sent: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 20:18
Subject: Re: Replacing GIMP


On 07/25/2011 08:23 PM, Bruno Benitez wrote:
I do know that there is no such "standard image editor" but if
we never start finding one, or adding one to our apps then we
will never have one, I think there should be a "standard image
editor" (pinta/gpaint/nathive/other) a "professional
image editor" (GIMP/others) and then we could have "Image
viewers" whit some "editing capabilities" (gpicview/gthumb).*
I do not propose Pinta directly, It looks awesome in my
opinion, but it does depend a lot on Mono, so if its choosen
it wont ment a huge space saver either...


--
Bruno.-



Jarno and Bruno,

please focus your energy in creating the application comparison. A
few good points to include would be:


1. What features do we expect an image editor to have, at least?
2. What do you think is the learning curve for the different
editors?

3. How light are the applications?
4. How mature are they in development?

Looking at the history of application comparisons and proposals in
Xubuntu, it seems that there is a high possibility to get change in
the defaults, as long as you are willing to work for it, and the
rationalizing is sufficient.


Cheers,
Pasi

In response to the above request here's my views. I like the graphics
for photo processing... i'd consider myself an average user
'processing' to reduce size, watermark and occasionally add special
effects. I use Bulk Rename to rename in my own system - date with
number so the camera numbering like DCFN05674 doesn't end up
overwriting. I use eog to view [better than gpicview and other
lightweights], and then ImageMagick to reduce size and watermark all a
convenient one liner [used to use picasa but that didn't seem to like
xubuntu and i didn't discover why]. Imagemagick appears to have
sophistication that Gimp doesn't have and yet is also great for the
intermediate level user who doesn't want the 'bells and whistles' -
thus clearly fitting with the xubuntu user's ethos 'MINIMAL, FAST,
FIT-FOR -PURPOSE'. Gimp for processing i found quite hard work to learn
and read into. Imagemagick also goes nicely with llgal for one's
albums. Both commandline apps which for processing a directory of
hundreds of pics is the way to go. perhaps shortly i should write a
wiki for xubuntu on Imagemagick and llgal to shorten the learning curve.


1. What features do we expect an image editor to have, at least?
I think we need to define it clearly - Viewer and editor [i don't feel
the two are the same]. The viewer should be simple like eog capable of
screenshow, rotating images, saving to desktop (we all like our
favourite pics in front of us). Separate app for 'processing'
Imagemagick and llgal.


2. What do you think is the learning curve for the different editors?
For most users it should be a day or two (couple of evenings) - with a
nice straight forward wiki even less.


3. How light are the applications?
On the minimal side quite light and yet Imagemagick on the
sophisticated side light as it's commandline.


4. How mature are they in development?
eog, Imagemagick, llgal - all well established and polished apps. When
considering the 'minimal' approach i think it is important to have
sound well tested apps. One thing which puts me off an app even if it's
good is how polished it is. I use Mousepad as an editor, it does just
what i want [i can always use gedit if i need to]. Similarly with Bulk
Rename - it does all i need is nice an simple whereas Krename has more
'eye candy' but i don't think does the job better.


--james

--
xubuntu-devel mailing list
xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel
 
Old 07-26-2011, 11:19 AM
Jarno Suni
 
Default Replacing GIMP

I think eog is not bad, it does not use very much RAM, but it is not
as responsive and does not have as much features as geeqie, which BTW
recommends imagemagick. In my experience memory usage is not big issue
with either viewer. I prefer image collection in the left side; that
way you see current image bigger. The collection is on bottom in eog.

--
http://www.iki.fi/8/

--
xubuntu-devel mailing list
xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel
 
Old 07-26-2011, 01:21 PM
Vincent
 
Default Replacing GIMP

On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 11:42 AM, James Freer <jessejazza3@aol.co.uk> wrote:


-----Original Message-----

From: Pasi Lallinaho <pasi@shimmerproject.org>

To: Xubuntu Development Discussion <xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com>

Sent: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 20:18

Subject: Re: Replacing GIMP





* * * * * * * On 07/25/2011 08:23 PM, Bruno Benitez wrote:

I do * * * * *know that there is no such "standard image editor" but if we * * * * *never start finding one, or adding one to our apps then we * * * * *will never have one, I think there should be a "standard image * * * * *editor" (pinta/gpaint/nathive/other) a * * * * *"professional image editor" (GIMP/others) and then we could * * * * *have "Image viewers" whit some "editing capabilities" * * * * *(gpicview/gthumb).* I do not propose Pinta directly, It looks * * * * *awesome in my opinion, but it does depend a lot on Mono, so if * * * * *its choosen it wont ment a huge space saver either...





* * --

* * Bruno.-







* Jarno and Bruno,



* *please focus your energy in creating the application comparison. A * few good points to include would be:



* 1. What features do we expect an image editor to have, at least?

* *2. What do you think is the learning curve for the different * *editors?

* 3. How light are the applications?

* 4. How mature are they in development?



* *Looking at the history of application comparisons and proposals in * *Xubuntu, it seems that there is a high possibility to get change in * *the defaults, as long as you are willing to work for it, and the * *rationalizing is sufficient.





* Cheers,

* Pasi



In response to the above request here's my views. I like the graphics for photo processing... i'd consider myself an average user 'processing' to reduce size, watermark and occasionally add special effects. I use Bulk Rename to rename in my own system - date with number so the camera numbering like DCFN05674 doesn't end up overwriting. I use eog to view [better than gpicview and other lightweights], and then ImageMagick to reduce size and watermark all a convenient one liner [used to use picasa but that didn't seem to like xubuntu and i didn't discover why]. Imagemagick appears to have sophistication that Gimp doesn't have and yet is also great for the intermediate level user who doesn't want the 'bells and whistles' - thus clearly fitting with the xubuntu user's ethos 'MINIMAL, FAST, FIT-FOR -PURPOSE'. Gimp for processing i found quite hard work to learn and read into. Imagemagick also goes nicely with llgal for one's albums. Both commandline apps which for processing a directory of hundreds of pics is the way to go. perhaps shortly i should write a wiki for xubuntu on Imagemagick and llgal to shorten the learning curve.





1. What features do we expect an image editor to have, at least?

I think we need to define it clearly - Viewer and editor [i don't feel the two are the same]. The viewer should be simple like eog capable of screenshow, rotating images, saving to desktop (we all like our favourite pics in front of us). Separate app for 'processing' Imagemagick and llgal.





2. What do you think is the learning curve for the different editors?

For most users it should be *a day or two (couple of evenings) - with a nice straight forward wiki even less.



3. How light are the applications?

On the minimal side quite light and yet Imagemagick on the sophisticated side light as it's commandline.



4. How mature are they in development?

eog, Imagemagick, llgal - all well established and polished apps. When considering the 'minimal' approach i think it is important to have sound well tested apps. One thing which puts me off an app even if it's good is how polished it is. I use Mousepad as an editor, it does just what i want [i can always use gedit if i need to]. Similarly with Bulk Rename - it does all i need is nice an simple whereas Krename has more 'eye candy' but i don't think does the job better.





Pasi's request wasn't to answer those questions here in short on the mailinglist, but to make a detailed comparison of all viable options using these questions as guidelines, on the Ubuntu wiki. See the links he attached for examples.


*
--james



--

xubuntu-devel mailing list

xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com

https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel



--
Vincent

--
xubuntu-devel mailing list
xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 01:11 PM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org