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Old 01-14-2010, 02:45 PM
Marcos
 
Default Replacing Firefox with Google Chrome

Hi!
You have more information here about my petitions for localizate to my
language (asturian language):
http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=28348
and here:
https://answers.launchpad.net/chromium-browser/+question/90682

And do not seem very interested in the location of application (at
least for now), except for widespread languages
Best regards.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 4:38 PM, Jim Campbell <jwcampbell@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 9:21 AM, Jim Campbell <jwcampbell@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Marcos,
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 2:18 AM, Marcos <marcoscostales@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi!
>>> I vote for Chromium, not Chrome.
>>>
>>> But Chromium and Chrome has a important problem: I can't localize to
>>> my language.
>>> Only the languages that they choose, can enter in Chromium/Chrome.
>>> You can read more here: http://acurti.es/8la
>>> Marked as "Won't fix" I think is contrary to the free software.
>>>
>>> Chromium/Chrome isn't integrated with the system, with "special"
>>> menus, they not use the Guide of Usability
>>>
>>> Best regards.
>>>
>>
>> I could deal with the UI issues, but the i10n and i18n issues do not make
>> me happy.* One of the key strengths of free and open source projects is the
>> ability to translate the software into a person's native language.* For the
>> Chromium team to mark that bug as "won't fix," doesn't seem right.
>>
>> If they wanted to mark it as "wishlist," I could understand.* I mean, if
>> it takes a lot of effort to set up a translation infrastructure . . . maybe
>> they don't have the time to get to that right now.
>>
>> If the software can't be localized, then I wouldn't see much point in
>> including it in Xubuntu.* If someone knows of a way around this on the
>> Ubuntu side that I'm not aware of, please feel free to mention it.
>> Otherwise, I would be willing to forgo any further discussion of using
>> Chromium in Xubuntu for now.
>>
>> Jim
>
> To err on the side of caution, I am investigating further.
>
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Old 01-23-2010, 05:51 PM
Steve Dodier
 
Default Replacing Firefox with Google Chrome

I think it would be wise to see how the mobile team will address the video playback issue [0] in Chromium before considering a move.

[0] http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzkxNQ

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Old 01-23-2010, 10:27 PM
David Collins
 
Default Replacing Firefox with Google Chrome

I use Firefox but have been watching Chrome carefully with an eye to switching, but it seems that Google still has a bit of work to do before it matches Firefox's extensions.

This is an interesting article because it gets into the details of Chrome extensions enough to pick out some of the shortfalls.


http://download.cnet.com/8301-2007_4-10416103-12.html?tag=contentMain;contentBody


eg. - Adblock Plus, the #1 extension for FF ...
'Despite the name, AdBlock+ should be avoided. It's not made by the same publishers who manage AdBlock Plus,
the popular and effective ad-blocker for Firefox. This is actually a
fairly serious problem with Chrome's extensions, where unknown entities
are appropriating identical or similar names to well-known and trusted
Firefox add-ons for what amount to nefarious purposes. So far, the
ad-blocking extension that most users seem to be trusting in Chrome is AdBlock, but don't be surprised if it causes more problems than it solves until there's more consensus on these name-squatters'



Xmarks for synching bookmarks is only Beta.


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Old 01-24-2010, 12:45 PM
Vincent
 
Default Replacing Firefox with Google Chrome

On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 12:27 AM, David Collins <david.8.collins@gmail.com> wrote:


I use Firefox but have been watching Chrome carefully with an eye to switching, but it seems that Google still has a bit of work to do before it matches Firefox's extensions.

This is an interesting article because it gets into the details of Chrome extensions enough to pick out some of the shortfalls.




http://download.cnet.com/8301-2007_4-10416103-12.html?tag=contentMain;contentBody


eg. - Adblock Plus, the #1 extension for FF ...
'Despite the name, AdBlock+ should be avoided. It's not made by the same publishers who manage AdBlock Plus,
the popular and effective ad-blocker for Firefox. This is actually a
fairly serious problem with Chrome's extensions, where unknown entities
are appropriating identical or similar names to well-known and trusted
Firefox add-ons for what amount to nefarious purposes. So far, the
ad-blocking extension that most users seem to be trusting in Chrome is AdBlock, but don't be surprised if it causes more problems than it solves until there's more consensus on these name-squatters'





Xmarks for synching bookmarks is only Beta.


Also, Chrome extensions aren't yet as powerful, as the Adblock lookalikes for Chrome can't actually block ads from being loaded, just prevent them from being displayed. This exposes you to a lot more scrutiny from advertising companies.


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Old 01-27-2010, 10:31 AM
Marko Oreskovic
 
Default Replacing Firefox with Google Chrome

Vincent wrote:

> Also, Chrome extensions aren't yet as powerful, as the Adblock
> lookalikes for Chrome can't actually block ads from being loaded, just
> prevent them from being displayed. This exposes you to a lot more
> scrutiny from advertising companies.

Also +1 against Chrome as default anywhere.

I use Noscript extension for Firefox and Seamonkey and I mostly could
not survive without them with the degree of use I have. (Javascript and
flash abuse all over internet is very extensive)
Also there is Chromium instead of that Chrome that is Google-controlled.

I do not trust Chrome at all.
There are many things that Chrome is doing that ordinary browser should
not do, regarding user privacy, and is used and could be used to track
user on internet:

http://www.srware.net/en/software_srware_iron_chrome_vs_iron.php
http://maketecheasier.com/iron-browser-a-secure-alternative-to-google-chrome/2009/07/08

So there is a project that use chromium project and eliminates privacy
issues that chrome has. It called Iron.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRWare_Iron
http://www.srware.net/en/software_srware_iron.php

Also binary license of Google Chrome under which it is licensed, put
user in direct conditioning to Google company etc..

Firefox is like a standard free browser for many years now.
If someone wants to use Google-licensed Chrome binary he can always add
it to he`s system the same way he can add Opera or Seamonkey.

Lets not get Ubuntu derivates be turned into Google OS.
There is a Google OS if someone loves Google so much
and does not value its privacy.


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Old 01-27-2010, 10:41 AM
Marko Oreskovic
 
Default Replacing Firefox with Google Chrome

Marcos wrote:
> Hi!
> I vote for Chromium, not Chrome.
>
> But Chromium and Chrome has a important problem: I can't localize to
> my language.
> Only the languages that they choose, can enter in Chromium/Chrome.
> You can read more here: http://acurti.es/8la
> Marked as "Won't fix" I think is contrary to the free software.
>
> Chromium/Chrome isn't integrated with the system, with "special"
> menus, they not use the Guide of Usability

It is quite unacceptable to have such browser as default whet is even
can not be localized and translated to language users are using.

I would not consider Chrom* anything until that thing with not allowing
translation is solved in a desirable fashion.


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Old 01-28-2010, 02:04 PM
Jim Campbell
 
Default Replacing Firefox with Google Chrome

Hi All,

Thanks for your input, and for bringing some of these issues to our attention.* I'd like to try and summarize some of the issues and concerns that people have.*

On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 5:31 AM, Marko Oreskovic <markoresko@gmail.com> wrote:



Vincent wrote:



> Also, Chrome extensions aren't yet as powerful, as the Adblock

> lookalikes for Chrome can't actually block ads from being loaded, just

> prevent them from being displayed. This exposes you to a lot more

> scrutiny from advertising companies.



Also +1 against Chrome as default anywhere.



I use Noscript extension for Firefox and Seamonkey and I mostly could

not survive without them with the degree of use I have. (_javascript_ and

flash abuse all over internet is very extensive)

Also there is Chromium instead of that Chrome that is Google-controlled.



I do not trust Chrome at all.

There are many things that Chrome is doing that ordinary browser should

not do, regarding user privacy, and is used and could be used to track

user on internet:



http://www.srware.net/en/software_srware_iron_chrome_vs_iron.php

http://maketecheasier.com/iron-browser-a-secure-alternative-to-google-chrome/2009/07/08




I mentioned Google Chrome in the subject of my message, but at this point we would only be considering Chromium.* Relating to the srware.net article Marcos linked to above, I think this would have the following implications.* Please consider these as comments on the issue, not advocacy of one browser over the other.




- Client ID - I don't think this would be relevant, as we would be using an Ubuntu package.* I'd be glad to know if my thoughts here are incorrect.
- Time Stamp - Same as above.
- Suggest - May be an issue, although I think this behavior also occurs with the Firefox searchbar.* In a way, the address bar on Chromium is a big searchbar, though.



- Alternate error pages - I'm not familiar with this issue.* The site says, "Depending on configuration . . . "* Can anyone explain if there is a setting for this?
- Error reporting - This is user-configurable, but I will check the default setting for Chromium.



- RLZ-tracking - Not sure if this would apply to Chromium, as it is an Ubuntu package, not direct from Google.* I'd be glad to know if this does apply to an Ubuntu Chromium package, though.
- Google Updater - Not applicable to an Ubuntu Chromium package



- URL-Tracker - It's unclear to me what the problem is here (i.e., I can't understand how they've phrased the issue).* It sounds like the google home page is opening?* But it is dependent on the configuration?* Can anyone else explain this?




I'll make a few other notes.
1) I checked, and Ubuntu's deal with Yahoo will not impact Chromium (or any other browsers) in X/K/Ubuntu.* All other browsers will stay with their default searchbar configurations (as appropriate).* Of course, Chromium would default to a Google search, similar to most browsers.



2) With regards to translations, I checked the Chromium's packager, and he said that they would have to "bend" the Chromium package to get it translatable via Launchpad.* Thus, this remains an outstanding issue at this time, and there's no promise that this would be resolved in time for Lucid.



3) I agree about the less powerful adblock extensions, but how many people use these?* Is having them available going to impact the core set of Xubuntu users?* I am not saying that it absolutely will not impact the core set of Xubuntu users, I am just asking the question.* How many Xubuntu users rely on adblock?* If there is not a good adblock extension now, will a better adblock extension be possible down the road, or does Chromium's setup prevent something like this from working well?



4) Xubuntu does try to emphasize lightness where possible, and we strive to make Xubuntu usable on systems with less memory.* From the Xubuntu strategy document, "Xubuntu does not exclusively target users with low, modest, or high
powered machines but instead targets the entire spectrum with a strong
focus on enabling lower end machines. Xubuntu's extra responsiveness and
speed, among other positive traits, can be appreciated by all users
regardless of their hardware."* Chromium would have a clear advantage here, even compared to FF 3.6.
5) The issue of patented codecs brought up by Andrew Blomen is an interesting one.* I agree that we should encourage use of Free codecs where possible.



What do people think?* Given all of this, I'm not so sure that Chromium is the best fit for Xubuntu, at least for now.* The translation issue is important to our users, and the codec issue is important to me.* The privacy issue seems important to some, but I tend to think that most anything we do on the internet can be tracked somehow (unless we use the extreme step of using Tor or something).* The smaller memory footprint provided by Chromium would be a "nice to have" feature, but we've survived using Firefox for a good while - using it for a LTS would probably be the best thing to do.



Jim

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Old 01-28-2010, 04:33 PM
Charlie Kravetz
 
Default Replacing Firefox with Google Chrome

On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 09:04:23 -0600
Jim Campbell <jwcampbell@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Thanks for your input, and for bringing some of these issues to our
> attention. I'd like to try and summarize some of the issues and concerns
> that people have.
>
>
> What do people think? Given all of this, I'm not so sure that Chromium is
> the best fit for Xubuntu, at least for now. The translation issue is
> important to our users, and the codec issue is important to me. The privacy
> issue seems important to some, but I tend to think that most anything we do
> on the internet can be tracked somehow (unless we use the extreme step of
> using Tor or something). The smaller memory footprint provided by Chromium
> would be a "nice to have" feature, but we've survived using Firefox for a
> good while - using it for a LTS would probably be the best thing to do.
>
> Jim

Thanks for the detailed comparison. At least it is an option.

I would have to vote for Firefox for the LTS, give Chromium a chance to
stabilize. Also, perhaps looking at Midori vs Chromium for Lucid+1
again. Midori is now maintained by the Xfce developers, isn't it?

Chromium bothers me, for for reasons I really can't put a finger on
right now. Perhaps it is what I see/hear about google and privacy. Any
user can switch the default search easy enough in Firefox.

Just one man's opinion...

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Old 01-28-2010, 05:17 PM
Pasi Lallinaho
 
Default Replacing Firefox with Google Chrome

Charlie Kravetz wrote:

On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 09:04:23 -0600
Jim Campbell <jwcampbell@gmail.com> wrote:



Hi All,

Thanks for your input, and for bringing some of these issues to our
attention. I'd like to try and summarize some of the issues and concerns
that people have.


What do people think? Given all of this, I'm not so sure that Chromium is
the best fit for Xubuntu, at least for now. The translation issue is
important to our users, and the codec issue is important to me. The privacy
issue seems important to some, but I tend to think that most anything we do
on the internet can be tracked somehow (unless we use the extreme step of
using Tor or something). The smaller memory footprint provided by Chromium
would be a "nice to have" feature, but we've survived using Firefox for a
good while - using it for a LTS would probably be the best thing to do.

Jim



Thanks for the detailed comparison. At least it is an option.

I would have to vote for Firefox for the LTS,

Exactly my thoughts. This was my knee jerk reaction, but I've become
convinced it's the right way after following this discussion.


give Chromium a chance to
stabilize. Also, perhaps looking at Midori vs Chromium for Lucid+1
again. Midori is now maintained by the Xfce developers, isn't it?


Yes, Midori is maintained by the Xfce team.



Again, I would *love* to see Midori on Xubuntu, once its problems are
solved.



Chromium bothers me, for for reasons I really can't put a finger on
right now. Perhaps it is what I see/hear about google and privacy. Any
user can switch the default search easy enough in Firefox.

Just one man's opinion...



+1



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Old 01-28-2010, 10:11 PM
David Collins
 
Default Replacing Firefox with Google Chrome

Jim,I'll mainly comment on 3)
Statistics from the Firefox add-ons site (ordered by popularity) ..#1 Adblock Plus:********** * 926,549 weekly downloads
#2 Coral IE Tab: * * ** * ** 105,047 weekly downloads#3 Download Flash and Video:* 60,397 weekly downloads
ie.* Adblock Plus is very popular (almost 1 million downloads a week) and many times more popular than any other FF add-on.

I don't know whether it is used by the core set of Xubuntu users - but, given it's general popularity, it might.
Adblock Plus improves responsiveness and speed very significantly on some sites.
I feel that Chrome is still an immature product.* In a year or 2, it will be more mature and easier to compare against its competition.* I think it is good to have it in the Ubuntu repositories, though, so people can try out the Linux version easily and monitor its progress. I will be.


Just one opinion.David


On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 2:04 AM, Jim Campbell <jwcampbell@gmail.com> wrote:


3) I agree about the less powerful adblock extensions, but how many people use these?* Is having them available going to impact the core set of Xubuntu users?* I am not saying that it absolutely will not impact the core set of Xubuntu users, I am just asking the question.* How many Xubuntu users rely on adblock?* If there is not a good adblock extension now, will a better adblock extension be possible down the road, or does Chromium's setup prevent something like this from working well?



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