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Old 08-04-2008, 09:33 AM
Dave Morley
 
Default aesthetics

On Mon, 2008-08-04 at 10:57 +0300, Jari Rahkonen wrote:
> jmak kirjoitti:
> >> If we pick Unity as our default theme the panel color should be:
> > bg[NORMAL] = "#d6d6d6"
> > -Add this line to the panel code just above the 'xthickness = 0' line.
> >
> > jmak
> >
>
> Hardcoding the color will be a pain for everyone who switches to another
> theme. The panel specific theming should be added to the Unity gtkrc
> instead. Of course, that might have been what you meant.
>
> - Jari
>
Things like this make XFCE feel like a modern OS
http://bp2.blogger.com/_o9XphA5b4fA/R7h5WGS4b8I/AAAAAAAAAGY/2U7z5zr1oCQ/s400/Screenshot-9.png

I understand that by making Xubuntu feel like Ubuntu that it won't feel
so foreign to people, but how many user actually mod there desktop?

I think it is about time that Xubuntu grew up.... I think that following
the Ubuntu ethos is good but sticking to it like glue make the Xubuntu
desktop feel dated.

KDE4 looks fantastic and it looks completely different from either
Ubuntu or Kubuntu previously. However you still know that Kubuntu is a
related project. Why can Xubuntu not do something similar?
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Old 08-04-2008, 10:15 AM
Vincent
 
Default aesthetics

On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 2:57 AM, jmak <jozmak@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 2:03 PM, Vincent <mailinglists@vinnl.nl> wrote:

>

>

> On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 6:52 PM, jmak <jozmak@gmail.com> wrote:

>>

>> But we still haven't decided on the new icon theme.

>

> Pick one that fits the rest and is complete, then report it, I'd say

> --



Icon theme: xubuntu studio

Window decorator: Tyrex --a flat decorator


I don't know what Tyrex looks like, but I trust your judgement . Have you filed it at Launchpad?
*


I am thinking about increasing the default icon size from 32 to 48

pixels. Looks good on larger monitors. 20 inches. I wonder how this

size would look on smaller screens.
How can I set that for my panel?
*


If we pick Unity as our default theme the panel color should be:

bg[NORMAL] = "#d6d6d6"

-Add this line to the panel code just above the 'xthickness = 0' line.


As Jari said, that should be a modification of Unity of course (Wasn't it possible to specify application-specific background colours? I believe there even was an option to theme panels. If so, this might even be an idea to suggest upstream

*

jmak





On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 9:47 AM, Jesus Meneses <jesusm0812@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm
sorry for interrupt this discussion, but if we meant to mae xubuntu
more appealing to the view we should take this theme as an example of
good taste, functionality and damn straight HOT!* http://www.xfce-look.org/content/show.php/Elegant+Brit?content=74553


This theme has been evolving from a simple GTK theme and already
has GDM, Splash screen, guifications, and some icons on the way.

Nice, though as Jari said, it's probably not very well suited to be default. I'm going to try it though
*

Once again, sorry for interrupt

I for one appreciate all input

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Old 08-04-2008, 01:54 PM
jmak
 
Default aesthetics

On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 6:15 AM, Vincent <mailinglists@vinnl.nl> wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 2:57 AM, jmak <jozmak@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 2:03 PM, Vincent <mailinglists@vinnl.nl> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 6:52 PM, jmak <jozmak@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> But we still haven't decided on the new icon theme.
>> >
>> > Pick one that fits the rest and is complete, then report it, I'd say
>> > --
>>
>> Icon theme: xubuntu studio
>> Window decorator: Tyrex --a flat decorator
>
> I don't know what Tyrex looks like, but I trust your judgement . Have you
> filed it at Launchpad?

Vincent,

Tyrex is just a flat window theme. Unity originaly comes with a
matching metacity theme for gnome, which is of course not available in
xfce. I just picked this window decorator because unity meant to be
flat. If you know other one that fits better let me know. I haven't
added anything to Launchpad before so I have to investigate how to do
it. Do you know any tutorial on this?

>
>>
>> I am thinking about increasing the default icon size from 32 to 48
>> pixels. Looks good on larger monitors. 20 inches. I wonder how this
>> size would look on smaller screens.
>
> How can I set that for my panel?

Regarding the icon: I meant increasing the size on the desktop not on
the panel. Because, I have a 22 inches monitor and the 32 pixels size
look so tiny that hardly visible. And thinking that those who are
using larger monitors are the majority already (17 inches and up).
>
>>
>> If we pick Unity as our default theme the panel color should be:
>> bg[NORMAL] = "#d6d6d6"
>> -Add this line to the panel code just above the 'xthickness = 0' line.
>
> As Jari said, that should be a modification of Unity of course (Wasn't it
> possible to specify application-specific background colours? I believe there
> even was an option to theme panels. If so, this might even be an idea to
> suggest upstream

Yes, that would be the ideal. But unity already packgaged and in the
repository. I personally don't know how to modify the theme to include
the panel color. I might ask the author, maybe he can give some clues.
But if from whatever reason, the modification wouldn't be possible;
would it be acceptable adding a workaround suggestion to the
documentation that explain how to comment out the line from the
gtkrc-2.0 if need be, or changing the color to something else. I can
write this part of it if necessary.

>
> On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 9:47 AM, Jesus Meneses <jesusm0812@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'm sorry for interrupt this discussion, but if we meant to mae xubuntu
>> more appealing to the view we should take this theme as an example of good
>> taste, functionality and damn straight HOT!
>> http://www.xfce-look.org/content/show.php/Elegant+Brit?content=74553
>>
>> This theme has been evolving from a simple GTK theme and already has GDM,
>> Splash screen, guifications, and some icons on the way.
>
> Nice, though as Jari said, it's probably not very well suited to be default.
> I'm going to try it though
>
>>
>> Once again, sorry for interrupt
>
> I for one appreciate all input
>
> --
> Vincent
>
> --
> xubuntu-devel mailing list
> xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel
>
>

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Old 08-04-2008, 03:01 PM
jmak
 
Default aesthetics

On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 5:33 AM, Dave Morley <davmor2@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 2008-08-04 at 10:57 +0300, Jari Rahkonen wrote:
>> jmak kirjoitti:
>> >> If we pick Unity as our default theme the panel color should be:
>> > bg[NORMAL] = "#d6d6d6"
>> > -Add this line to the panel code just above the 'xthickness = 0' line.
>> >
>> > jmak
>> >
>>
>> Hardcoding the color will be a pain for everyone who switches to another
>> theme. The panel specific theming should be added to the Unity gtkrc
>> instead. Of course, that might have been what you meant.
>>
>> - Jari
>>
> Things like this make XFCE feel like a modern OS
> http://bp2.blogger.com/_o9XphA5b4fA/R7h5WGS4b8I/AAAAAAAAAGY/2U7z5zr1oCQ/s400/Screenshot-9.png
>
> I understand that by making Xubuntu feel like Ubuntu that it won't feel
> so foreign to people, but how many user actually mod there desktop?
>
> I think it is about time that Xubuntu grew up.... I think that following
> the Ubuntu ethos is good but sticking to it like glue make the Xubuntu
> desktop feel dated.
>
> KDE4 looks fantastic and it looks completely different from either
> Ubuntu or Kubuntu previously. However you still know that Kubuntu is a
> related project. Why can Xubuntu not do something similar?
> --

I agree with you. I am also running dreamlinux, in fact that is the
only distro that I didn't feel the need to change its defaults
setting.
This just shows what I said before; how important the look is. And how
important to understand the target audience preferences.
By the way, AWN developers are working on a standalone launcher that
works without compiz. Maybe, we can already start thinking about
replacing xubuntu's bottom panel in the upcoming releases with AWN
launcher. I already mentioned many releases ago that xubuntu needs a
personality, a character rather than slavishly copying gnome layout.
This is all the more important, because with the fantastic release of
kde 4, there is a chance that gnome will fade into the twilight zone.
Even Mark Suttleworth indicated, it is possible that in the future kde
will be the main ubuntu desktop rather than gnome.

jmak

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Old 08-04-2008, 03:13 PM
Vincent
 
Default aesthetics

On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 5:01 PM, jmak <jozmak@gmail.com> wrote:




I agree with you. I am also running dreamlinux, in fact that is the

only distro that I didn't feel the need to change its defaults

setting.

This just shows what I said before; how important the look is. And how

important to understand the target audience preferences.

By the way, AWN developers are working on a standalone launcher that

works without compiz. Maybe, we can already start thinking about

replacing xubuntu's bottom panel in the upcoming releases with AWN

launcher.
Bad idea, AWN isn't great in terms of usability. It leaves the two bottom corners, which are easiest to reach with the mouse (together with the top corners) unused. Besides, AWN takes up quite a lot of vertical space while we will still also need a top panel for the menu and such.

* I already mentioned many releases ago that xubuntu needs a

personality, a character rather than slavishly copying gnome layout.

This is all the more important, because with the fantastic release of

kde 4, there is a chance that gnome will fade into the twilight zone.
Fantastic is subjective. GNOME won't fade into obscurity. KDE created itself a new niche so that now both GNOME and KDE really have their own, mostly separate, target audience.

*

Even Mark Suttleworth indicated, it is possible that in the future kde

will be the main ubuntu desktop rather than gnome.


No he didn't. He said that an LGPL Qt might be the basis of GNOME instead of GTK - with an emphasis on *might*, because clearly that would be a lot of work. Besides, GTK is also still improving.

*
Regarding the tutorial on reporting things on Launchpad: it's not *that* difficult, but I might write one.




jmak
Cheers,
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Old 08-04-2008, 03:21 PM
"Jesus Meneses"
 
Default aesthetics

Best default theme will be one customized by the user, after installing it xubuntu prompts a theme wizard that let people choose the look and feel of their desktop, setting a trend! let's stop being Ubuntu's appendix.



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Old 08-04-2008, 03:30 PM
Vincent
 
Default aesthetics

On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 5:21 PM, Jesus Meneses <jesusm0812@gmail.com> wrote:

Best default theme will be one customized by the user, after installing it xubuntu prompts a theme wizard that let people choose the look and feel of their desktop, setting a trend! let's stop being Ubuntu's appendix.


People shouldn't be forced to customize Xubuntu every time they do an installation. Though an application to switch panel layouts and such would be nice
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Old 08-04-2008, 03:57 PM
jmak
 
Default aesthetics

On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 11:13 AM, Vincent <mailinglists@vinnl.nl> wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 5:01 PM, jmak <jozmak@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I agree with you. I am also running dreamlinux, in fact that is the
>> only distro that I didn't feel the need to change its defaults
>> setting.
>> This just shows what I said before; how important the look is. And how
>> important to understand the target audience preferences.
>> By the way, AWN developers are working on a standalone launcher that
>> works without compiz. Maybe, we can already start thinking about
>> replacing xubuntu's bottom panel in the upcoming releases with AWN
>> launcher.
>
> Bad idea, AWN isn't great in terms of usability. It leaves the two bottom
> corners, which are easiest to reach with the mouse (together with the top
> corners) unused. Besides, AWN takes up quite a lot of vertical space while
> we will still also need a top panel for the menu and such.

Dreamlinux uses the similar set up but with engage. I find it
extremely usable. Because engage is sitting behind the applications
only one panel visible, that even optimizes screenspace. I like the
idea that the systemtray and the menu is on the same panel. And in the
next awn release, you will be able position the launchers any side of
the screen.
In the last sentence, you meant its size? It is too large that's what you meant?

>
>>
>> I already mentioned many releases ago that xubuntu needs a
>> personality, a character rather than slavishly copying gnome layout.
>> This is all the more important, because with the fantastic release of
>> kde 4, there is a chance that gnome will fade into the twilight zone.
>
> Fantastic is subjective. GNOME won't fade into obscurity. KDE created itself
> a new niche so that now both GNOME and KDE really have their own, mostly
> separate, target audience.
>
>>
>> Even Mark Suttleworth indicated, it is possible that in the future kde
>> will be the main ubuntu desktop rather than gnome.
>
> No he didn't. He said that an LGPL Qt might be the basis of GNOME instead of
> GTK - with an emphasis on *might*, because clearly that would be a lot of
> work. Besides, GTK is also still improving.

I was not sure exactly the wording; but now he starts talking about
the beauty of the macintosh and the fact that ubuntu has to look even
better, indicates that when kde 4 will be fully functional he might
make kde as a main ubuntu desktop.

>
> Regarding the tutorial on reporting things on Launchpad: it's not *that*
> difficult, but I might write one.

Thanks for that.

jmak
>
>>
>> jmak
>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> Vincent
>
> --
> xubuntu-devel mailing list
> xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel
>
>

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Old 08-04-2008, 04:09 PM
Vincent
 
Default aesthetics

On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 5:57 PM, jmak <jozmak@gmail.com> wrote:

On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 11:13 AM, Vincent <mailinglists@vinnl.nl> wrote:

>

>

> On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 5:01 PM, jmak <jozmak@gmail.com> wrote:

>>

>> I agree with you. I am also running dreamlinux, in fact that is the

>> only distro that I didn't feel the need to change its defaults

>> setting.

>> This just shows what I said before; how important the look is. And how

>> important to understand the target audience preferences.

>> By the way, AWN developers are working on a standalone launcher that

>> works without compiz. Maybe, we can already start thinking about

>> replacing xubuntu's bottom panel in the upcoming releases with AWN

>> launcher.

>

> Bad idea, AWN isn't great in terms of usability. It leaves the two bottom

> corners, which are easiest to reach with the mouse (together with the top

> corners) unused. Besides, AWN takes up quite a lot of vertical space while

> we will still also need a top panel for the menu and such.



Dreamlinux uses the similar set up but with engage. I find it

extremely usable.
Well, it's a fact that the corners are the easiest to reach, so it's a waste not to use it.
*
Because engage is sitting behind the applications

only one panel visible, that even optimizes screenspace.
Having the icons behind the applications is really not that handy, see http://www.digiplace.nl/images/dream.png

The margin at the bottom is distracting and meanwhile the dock is unusable.
*I like the


idea that the systemtray and the menu is on the same panel.
That already is the case in Xubuntu IIRC.
*
And in the

next awn release, you will be able position the launchers any side of

the screen.

In the last sentence, you meant its size? It is too large that's what you meant?


Yep, if it doesn't hide behind windows then it takes up a lot of screen real estate (with a lot wasted at both sides of the dock), which doesn't sound like a good idea after all the discussion on decreasing the panel size.


>>

>> Even Mark Suttleworth indicated, it is possible that in the future kde

>> will be the main ubuntu desktop rather than gnome.

>

> No he didn't. He said that an LGPL Qt might be the basis of GNOME instead of

> GTK - with an emphasis on *might*, because clearly that would be a lot of

> work. Besides, GTK is also still improving.



I was not sure exactly the wording; but now he starts talking about

the beauty of the macintosh and the fact that ubuntu has to look even

better, indicates that when kde 4 will be fully functional he might

make kde as a main ubuntu desktop.

Can you cite a source? I'm quite up-to-date yet can't recall reading anything of the sorts. I do know he wants to out-pretty OS X, but no mention of using KDE to accomplish that. (Probably the most important step to accomplish that is a different colour scheme ;-)

*

jmak

>

>>

>> jmak

>

> Cheers,

>

> --

> Vincent

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Old 08-04-2008, 05:20 PM
jmak
 
Default aesthetics

On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 4:09 PM, Vincent <mailinglists@vinnl.nl> wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 5:57 PM, jmak <jozmak@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 11:13 AM, Vincent <mailinglists@vinnl.nl> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 5:01 PM, jmak <jozmak@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I agree with you. I am also running dreamlinux, in fact that is the
>> >> only distro that I didn't feel the need to change its defaults
>> >> setting.
>> >> This just shows what I said before; how important the look is. And how
>> >> important to understand the target audience preferences.
>> >> By the way, AWN developers are working on a standalone launcher that
>> >> works without compiz. Maybe, we can already start thinking about
>> >> replacing xubuntu's bottom panel in the upcoming releases with AWN
>> >> launcher.
>> >
>> > Bad idea, AWN isn't great in terms of usability. It leaves the two
>> > bottom
>> > corners, which are easiest to reach with the mouse (together with the
>> > top
>> > corners) unused. Besides, AWN takes up quite a lot of vertical space
>> > while
>> > we will still also need a top panel for the menu and such.
>>
>> Dreamlinux uses the similar set up but with engage. I find it
>> extremely usable.
>
> Well, it's a fact that the corners are the easiest to reach, so it's a waste
> not to use it.
>
>>
>> Because engage is sitting behind the applications
>> only one panel visible, that even optimizes screenspace.
>
> Having the icons behind the applications is really not that handy, see
> http://www.digiplace.nl/images/dream.png
> The margin at the bottom is distracting and meanwhile the dock is unusable.

I see what you mean; but something wrong with that picture. Dreamlinux
default setting is that the launcher is behind the application and you
are not supose to see any space like that, because the application
fills the entirely screen like in the picture below.

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/6295/screenshot1er1.png

You can also configure the launcher to autohide, or sit in the front
and many others. So it is very configurable.

>
>>
>> I like the
>> idea that the systemtray and the menu is on the same panel.
>
> That already is the case in Xubuntu IIRC.
>
>>
>> And in the
>> next awn release, you will be able position the launchers any side of
>> the screen.
>> In the last sentence, you meant its size? It is too large that's what you
>> meant?
>
> Yep, if it doesn't hide behind windows then it takes up a lot of screen real
> estate (with a lot wasted at both sides of the dock), which doesn't sound
> like a good idea after all the discussion on decreasing the panel size.
>>
>> >>
>> >> Even Mark Suttleworth indicated, it is possible that in the future kde
>> >> will be the main ubuntu desktop rather than gnome.
>> >
>> > No he didn't. He said that an LGPL Qt might be the basis of GNOME
>> > instead of
>> > GTK - with an emphasis on *might*, because clearly that would be a lot
>> > of
>> > work. Besides, GTK is also still improving.
>>
>> I was not sure exactly the wording; but now he starts talking about
>> the beauty of the macintosh and the fact that ubuntu has to look even
>> better, indicates that when kde 4 will be fully functional he might
>> make kde as a main ubuntu desktop.
>
> Can you cite a source? I'm quite up-to-date yet can't recall reading
> anything of the sorts. I do know he wants to out-pretty OS X, but no mention
> of using KDE to accomplish that. (Probably the most important step to
> accomplish that is a different colour scheme ;-)
>
>>
>> jmak
>> >
>> >>
>> >> jmak
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> >
>> > --
>> > Vincent
>
>
> --
> Vincent
>
> --
> xubuntu-devel mailing list
> xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel
>
>

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