Dotan Cohen wrote:

> 2008/6/4 Cybe R. Wizard <cybe_r_wizard@earthlink.net>:
>> A short look at your screenshots reveals that your major packet losses
>> are attributable to bzeqint.net in several of their host addresses. I'd
>> think your problem might lie there.
>>
>
> The ISP is Bezeq International. They say that such a response is
> normal due to packet priority. Makes sense.
>
Makes sense in an ISP sort of way... So they're telling you that you get
lousy response times because they prioritize your packets out of existence?
And that wouldn't be their fault?
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Dotan Cohen wrote:

> As this was a real
> tech and not CS, I have no way of contacting him again, especially for
> something so trivial as "what app do you recommend".

Arghh! When will ISPs learn... I once had a problem that got a tech
involved at around midnight, by which time my problem had disappeared. He
was helpful, but couldn't do anything while the problem wasn't occurring,
so he could only suggest I call back when it happened - but there was
absolutely no way anybody was going to let me have _his_ number, so when I
called back I was on hold for two hours waiting for him to be available!
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On 06/04/2008 02:47 AM, Dotan Cohen wrote:
> 2008/6/4 Cybe R. Wizard <cybe_r_wizard@earthlink.net>:
>> A short look at your screenshots reveals that your major packet losses
>> are attributable to bzeqint.net in several of their host addresses. I'd
>> think your problem might lie there.
>>
>
> The ISP is Bezeq International. They say that such a response is
> normal due to packet priority. Makes sense.

That makes no sense at all. Those high packet losses on hops 3, 4, and 5
show that their network was screwed up at the time. I can (currently)
traceroute to 62.219.189.9 from California with 5% packet loss and the
packet loss was from my side (I am currently having DSL problems locally).

~$ mtr -r -c 20 62.219.189.9
HOST: [snip] Loss% Snt Last Avg Best Wrst
StDev
1. bras13-l0.pltnca.sbcglobal.n 0.0% 20 16.1 15.6 14.5 17.5 0.8
2. 64.164.107.1 5.0% 20 13.7 15.7 13.6 45.6 7.3
3. bb1-g3-0.pltnca.sbcglobal.ne 0.0% 20 14.3 18.0 13.4 91.8 17.4
4. ex2-p10-0.pxpaca.sbcglobal.n 0.0% 20 15.9 22.2 14.6 143.0 28.5
5. asn6762-telecom-italia.pxpac 0.0% 20 15.5 18.6 14.5 77.7 13.9
6. customer-side-bi-3-pal5.pal. 0.0% 20 230.5 230.6 230.0 231.7 0.5
7. bzq-219-189-9.cablep.bezeqin 5.0% 20 230.8 231.4 230.8 232.4 0.4

As for the "tech" that asked you to do an iptrace, don't worry about it,
your mtr should have been more than sufficient for them to realize that
*they* had a problem with *their* network.

BTW: Next time you use mtr, use the -r & -c <count> commands as shown
above and that will give you a printout that you can then copy & paste.
-r is for report and -c is for count. So in the above I set it to send
20 packets and at the end 'print' the report to the terminal.


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On Wed, 2008-06-04 at 15:06 +0300, Dotan Cohen wrote:
> 2008/6/3 Avi Greenbury <avismailinglistaccount@googlemail.com>:
> > On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 16:45:36 +0200
> > Markus Schönhaber <ubuntu-users@list-post.mks-mail.de> wrote:
> >> Since you provided almost no useful info what exactly you're talking
> >> about, I'd consider the chances to be very slim that anyone here is able
> >> to give useful assistance. I doubt that more than wild guessing can be
> >> expected.
> >
> > My understanding was that he came here wanting information on tools with which to trace routes, not on his http500 errors.
> >
>
> Actually, that was my intention: only to learn about the tools.
> However, if Markus or others are knowledgeable and can help to
> actually _use_ them, then that is appreciated too. At the very least,
> we can confirm what both I and Markus suspect: that the problem is not
> on my end.
>
> Dotan Cohen

To answer your original question, there is a program called iptrace. It
is Visual IP Trace, available for Windows. Here is the website to obtain
a free demo and the information on it:
http://www.tucows.com/preview/512641
OS: 2k / XP / 2003 / Vista; Visual IP Trace helps identify hackers,
validate websites, and investigate IP addresses.

Good Luck,

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Never let anyone steal your DREAM. [http://keepingdreams.com]


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2008/6/5 Charlie Kravetz <cjk@teamcharliesangels.com>:
> To answer your original question, there is a program called iptrace. It
> is Visual IP Trace, available for Windows. Here is the website to obtain
> a free demo and the information on it:
> http://www.tucows.com/preview/512641
> OS: 2k / XP / 2003 / Vista; Visual IP Trace helps identify hackers,
> validate websites, and investigate IP addresses.
>

Ah, a Windows tool! Actually, I did see Visual IP Trace while
googling, but thought that there is no way that is what he is
recommending. How naive I am...

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
×�-ב-×’-ד-×”-ו-×–-×—-ט-×™-ך-×›-ל-×�-מ-ן-×*-ס-×¢-×£-פ-×¥-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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2008/6/4 Markus Schönhaber <ubuntu-users@list-post.mks-mail.de>:
> Dotan Cohen wrote:
>
>> 2008/6/4 Markus Schönhaber <ubuntu-users@list-post.mks-mail.de>:
>
>>> But is it reproducible in the sense that when it happens, it happens
>>> more than once?
>>
>> Yes, the problem could persist for 15 minutes, then browsing goes back
>> to normal.
>
> Good (in the sense that you can do some measurements when it happens again).
> When it happens again, you could do the following:
> - Close all network-related applications (browser, mail client etc.).
> - Start tcpdump (you may have to install it):
> sudo tcpdump -s 0 -w <some file name> -i <name of external interface>
> - Do some webbrowsing.
> We can take al look at what tcpdump captured afterwards.
>
>> I don't think that they did. Actually, I'm almost certain that they
>> did not. I will file a bug with Mozilla that such information should
>> be included in the error message.
>
> What I wanted to find out is whether it's really a firefox generated
> message. In most error cases the server or the proxy will send an error
> page which the browser simply displays but has no influence what info is
> provided on this page - but the name of the server might be among them.
>
>>> I'm not familiar with mtr. But two things catch my eye:
>>> 1. The "Resolver error"s on some of the shots.
>>> 2. The massive packet loss on some .bezequint.net machines.
>>
>> That is the ISP's machine. They have seen the screenshots and say that
>> is normal.
>
> OK, in combination with what you mentioned in your other post, that this
> was due to traffic shaping, this might be true. mtr sends ICMP echo
> requests which might indeed get dropped in favour of more important
> packets (but for very little gain).
> Nevertheless this doesn't sound convincing to me. I'd rather read that
> as: "Sorry, pal. When that happens to you, we have shaped you out of the
> way. Bad luck, mate".
>
> Since you started this thread with asking for iptrace which, as I
> understand it, was suggested to you by your ISP's tech: it might be
> worthwhile to find out, what exactly the tech wanted you to do with
> iptrace, i. e. what exactly he wanted you to measure.
> If you know that, you can probably do this measurement with some other
> means/tool.
>

It took a month, but here is the results on my tcpdump:
http://dotancohen.com/images/examples/tcpdumpoutput.txt

It seems to be a binary file, but I was able to read a bit of it with
strings. What program is used to read this?

I opened tcpdump and then Firefox, went to slashdot.com, quickly
realized my misktake and hit ESC, went to slashdot.org, it timed out,
then I went to google.com which loaded. I then closed Firefox and
tcpdump.

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
×�-ב-×’-ד-×”-ו-×–-×—-ט-×™-ך-×›-ל-×�-מ-ן-×*-ס-×¢-×£-פ-×¥-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

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Dotan Cohen wrote:
> 2008/6/4 Markus Schönhaber <ubuntu-users@list-post.mks-mail.de>:
>> Dotan Cohen wrote:
>>
>>> 2008/6/4 Markus Schönhaber <ubuntu-users@list-post.mks-mail.de>:
>>>> But is it reproducible in the sense that when it happens, it happens
>>>> more than once?
>>> Yes, the problem could persist for 15 minutes, then browsing goes back
>>> to normal.
>> Good (in the sense that you can do some measurements when it happens again).
>> When it happens again, you could do the following:
>> - Close all network-related applications (browser, mail client etc.).
>> - Start tcpdump (you may have to install it):
>> sudo tcpdump -s 0 -w <some file name> -i <name of external interface>
>> - Do some webbrowsing.
>> We can take al look at what tcpdump captured afterwards.
>>
>>> I don't think that they did. Actually, I'm almost certain that they
>>> did not. I will file a bug with Mozilla that such information should
>>> be included in the error message.
>> What I wanted to find out is whether it's really a firefox generated
>> message. In most error cases the server or the proxy will send an error
>> page which the browser simply displays but has no influence what info is
>> provided on this page - but the name of the server might be among them.
>>
>>>> I'm not familiar with mtr. But two things catch my eye:
>>>> 1. The "Resolver error"s on some of the shots.
>>>> 2. The massive packet loss on some .bezequint.net machines.
>>> That is the ISP's machine. They have seen the screenshots and say that
>>> is normal.
>> OK, in combination with what you mentioned in your other post, that this
>> was due to traffic shaping, this might be true. mtr sends ICMP echo
>> requests which might indeed get dropped in favour of more important
>> packets (but for very little gain).
>> Nevertheless this doesn't sound convincing to me. I'd rather read that
>> as: "Sorry, pal. When that happens to you, we have shaped you out of the
>> way. Bad luck, mate".
>>
>> Since you started this thread with asking for iptrace which, as I
>> understand it, was suggested to you by your ISP's tech: it might be
>> worthwhile to find out, what exactly the tech wanted you to do with
>> iptrace, i. e. what exactly he wanted you to measure.
>> If you know that, you can probably do this measurement with some other
>> means/tool.
>>
>
> It took a month, but here is the results on my tcpdump:
> http://dotancohen.com/images/examples/tcpdumpoutput.txt
>
> It seems to be a binary file, but I was able to read a bit of it with
> strings. What program is used to read this?
>
> I opened tcpdump and then Firefox, went to slashdot.com, quickly
> realized my misktake and hit ESC, went to slashdot.org, it timed out,
> then I went to google.com which loaded. I then closed Firefox and
> tcpdump.

I like to use wireshark.


--
The early bird who catches the worm works for someone who comes in late
and owns the worm farm.
-- Travis McGee

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2008/7/2 Ed Greshko <Ed.Greshko@greshko.com>:
> I like to use wireshark.
>

Thanks, Ed. Where's a good place to start learning how to diagnose
with wireshark? Everything I've googled assumed that the user has a CS
degree. My goal is to find where the problem lies between myself and
slashdot (for instance) when the site times out.

--
Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
×�-ב-×’-ד-×”-ו-×–-×—-ט-×™-ך-×›-ל-×�-מ-ן-×*-ס-×¢-×£-פ-×¥-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 1:23 PM, Dotan Cohen <dotancohen@gmail.com> wrote:

2008/7/2 Ed Greshko <Ed.Greshko@greshko.com>:

> I like to use wireshark.

>



Thanks, Ed. Where's a good place to start learning how to diagnose

with wireshark? Everything I've googled assumed that the user has a CS

degree. My goal is to find where the problem lies between myself and

slashdot (for instance) when the site times out.



--

Dotan Cohen



http://what-is-what.com

http://gibberish.co.il

×�-ב-×’-ד-×”-ו-×–-×—-ט-×™-ך-×›-ל-×�-מ-ן-×*-ס-×¢-×£-פ-×¥-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת



A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.

Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

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May I ask you something?
Have you ever tried using another PC/Laptop?
Does the problem occur in the same way using another PC/Laptop?
Have you ever consider to replace the router with another one?Â* or is it provided by your ISP also?

Have you plugged the cable modem directly to the Laptop via ethernet and the issue still goes on?

I ask you this because here in mexico city I had almost the same issues over and over, and had to do all from above and even started wireshark for 24 hours but the solution was to replace the cable cord that comes to the cablemodem, the one that was splitting the signal between the tv and 5 cablemodem that I have, weird stuff, but true.

So you may want to review every single device which is connected to the ISP signal ex. Cablemodem(if you own it), Router, PC/Laptops, etc. in order to discard that the problem relies on your gear, if everything fails and you still have the same issues, then blame the isp and ask for someone to check your cabling structure and perhaps replace your cablemodem, maybe then your issue will be long gone.


that's only my point of view, hope it helps.

Victor.

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On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 1:23 PM, Dotan Cohen <dotancohen@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2008/7/2 Ed Greshko <Ed.Greshko@greshko.com>:
>> I like to use wireshark.
>>
>
> Thanks, Ed. Where's a good place to start learning how to diagnose
> with wireshark? Everything I've googled assumed that the user has a CS
> degree. My goal is to find where the problem lies between myself and
> slashdot (for instance) when the site times out.

I use "mtr" for this - it's pretty straightforward: mtr <hostname_or_IP>

Chris

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