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Rashkae 05-15-2008 01:55 AM

Computer loosing time
 
What would cause a computer to loose time while it's on and running?
(approx. 10 minutes lost every 24 hrs) It's easy enough to sync the
clock with NTP, but it makes no sense to me that my pc can't count
seconds properly.

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Brian Lunergan 05-15-2008 02:42 AM

Computer loosing time
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Rashkae <ubuntu@tigershaunt.com>
Reply-To: Ubuntu user technical support, not for general discussions
<ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com>
To: Ubuntu user technical support, not for general discussions
<ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com>
Subject: Computer loosing time
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 21:55:16 -0400
Mailer: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (X11/20080227)

What would cause a computer to loose time while it's on and running?
(approx. 10 minutes lost every 24 hrs) It's easy enough to sync the
clock with NTP, but it makes no sense to me that my pc can't count
seconds properly.

There may be other explanations possible (the ubertechs in the group can get themselves around that) but my speculative thought would be that the battery keeping your CMOS alive (and hence the time/date information) has reached its limits and is beginning to fail.

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Brian Lunergan
Nepean, Ontario
Canada



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Rashkae 05-15-2008 03:09 AM

Computer loosing time
 
Brian Lunergan wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rashkae <ubuntu@tigershaunt.com>
> Reply-To: Ubuntu user technical support, not for general discussions
> <ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com>
> To: Ubuntu user technical support, not for general discussions
> <ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com>
> Subject: Computer loosing time
> Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 21:55:16 -0400
> Mailer: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (X11/20080227)
>
> What would cause a computer to loose time while it's on and running?
> (approx. 10 minutes lost every 24 hrs) It's easy enough to sync the
> clock with NTP, but it makes no sense to me that my pc can't count
> seconds properly.
>
> There may be other explanations possible (the ubertechs in the group can get themselves around that) but my speculative thought would be that the battery keeping your CMOS alive (and hence the time/date information) has reached its limits and is beginning to fail.
>

Which would be first thought if the computer was ever turned off :)...
System time doesn't rely on CMOS clock except to to reand from the clock
on boot.

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Albert Charron 05-15-2008 04:16 AM

Computer loosing time
 
Rashkae wrote:

Brian Lunergan wrote:


-----Original Message-----
From: Rashkae <ubuntu@tigershaunt.com>
Reply-To: Ubuntu user technical support, not for general discussions
<ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com>
To: Ubuntu user technical support, not for general discussions
<ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com>
Subject: Computer loosing time
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 21:55:16 -0400
Mailer: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (X11/20080227)

What would cause a computer to loose time while it's on and running?
(approx. 10 minutes lost every 24 hrs) It's easy enough to sync the
clock with NTP, but it makes no sense to me that my pc can't count
seconds properly.

There may be other explanations possible (the ubertechs in the group can get themselves around that) but my speculative thought would be that the battery keeping your CMOS alive (and hence the time/date information) has reached its limits and is beginning to fail.




Which would be first thought if the computer was ever turned off :)...
System time doesn't rely on CMOS clock except to to reand from the clock
on boot.


I'd say the same thing that Brian said, but maybe the battery isn't the
problem, only one of the symptoms... I got the exact same situation a
couple of months ago with one of my computer ( that one running doze
tho)... then, other problems started to occur (going from freezes to
instant reboots). At some point, I noticed that at every reboots, I
would have to redo the settings in the Bios...


The problem was in fact the power supply that wasn't giving enough power
on the 3.3v, so the system was relying on the battery... When the
battery drained... oups...


In your bios, look if you don't have a voltage monitor. If the voltages
there are too far from their rated voltage, there may be a problem
(remember, when the OS is loaded, computer needs more power than when in
the Bios only...


Hope this helps...

--
+--------------------------------------+
Albert Charron
+--------------------------------------+
Linux Counter member #157482
Registered computers: 195048, 361906
+--------------------------------------+

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Pastor JW 05-15-2008 05:00 AM

Computer loosing time
 
On Wednesday 14 May 2008 09:16:15 pm Albert Charron wrote:
> Rashkae wrote:
> > Brian Lunergan wrote:
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Rashkae <ubuntu@tigershaunt.com>
> >> Reply-To: Ubuntu user technical support, not for general discussions
> >> <ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com>
> >> To: Ubuntu user technical support, not for general discussions
> >> <ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com>
> >> Subject: Computer loosing time
> >> Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 21:55:16 -0400
> >> Mailer: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (X11/20080227)
> >>
> >> What would cause a computer to loose time while it's on and running?
> >> (approx. 10 minutes lost every 24 hrs) It's easy enough to sync the
> >> clock with NTP, but it makes no sense to me that my pc can't count
> >> seconds properly.
> >>
> >> There may be other explanations possible (the ubertechs in the group can
> >> get themselves around that) but my speculative thought would be that the
> >> battery keeping your CMOS alive (and hence the time/date information)
> >> has reached its limits and is beginning to fail.
> >
> > Which would be first thought if the computer was ever turned off :)...
> > System time doesn't rely on CMOS clock except to to reand from the clock
> > on boot.
>
> I'd say the same thing that Brian said, but maybe the battery isn't the
> problem, only one of the symptoms... I got the exact same situation a
> couple of months ago with one of my computer ( that one running doze
> tho)... then, other problems started to occur (going from freezes to
> instant reboots). At some point, I noticed that at every reboots, I
> would have to redo the settings in the Bios...
>
> The problem was in fact the power supply that wasn't giving enough power
> on the 3.3v, so the system was relying on the battery... When the
> battery drained... oups...
>
> In your bios, look if you don't have a voltage monitor. If the voltages
> there are too far from their rated voltage, there may be a problem
> (remember, when the OS is loaded, computer needs more power than when in
> the Bios only...

You are exactly correct! It is a failing power supply and the new ones do not
have the adjustment screw to crank it up and allow a little longer use! Well
it COULD be an Intel chip, ...but they DID fix that since the Olympics timing
fiasco didn't they??? ;) :) The battery back-up for Bios being flat would
just give random wrong times each time the computer was started but the time
would not lose time drastically while running. There is a nice complicated
little formula to tell you how low your voltage is running but my books are
in a closet in a house 2400 miles away! When you don't use it every day you
lose the ability to use it at all! Ah well, I retired in '88 so I take it as
a blessing each day I wake up! Electrical math rarely comes up anymore!

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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the_original_inner_circle
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David Vincent 05-15-2008 02:00 PM

Computer loosing time
 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Hash: SHA1



Rashkae wrote:

> What would cause a computer to
loose time while it's on and running?

> (approx. 10 minutes lost every 24 hrs)* It's easy enough to sync
the

> clock with NTP, but it makes no sense to me that my pc can't count

> seconds properly.

>



Possibly your power supply is dying.* How do your voltages look in the
BIOS?



- -d

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Rashkae 05-15-2008 07:12 PM

Computer loosing time
 
Albert Charron wrote:
> Rashkae wrote:
>> Brian Lunergan wrote:
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Rashkae <ubuntu@tigershaunt.com>
>>> Reply-To: Ubuntu user technical support, not for general discussions
>>> <ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com>
>>> To: Ubuntu user technical support, not for general discussions
>>> <ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com>
>>> Subject: Computer loosing time
>>> Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 21:55:16 -0400
>>> Mailer: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (X11/20080227)
>>>
>>> What would cause a computer to loose time while it's on and running?
>>> (approx. 10 minutes lost every 24 hrs) It's easy enough to sync the
>>> clock with NTP, but it makes no sense to me that my pc can't count
>>> seconds properly.
>>>
>>> There may be other explanations possible (the ubertechs in the group
>>> can get themselves around that) but my speculative thought would be
>>> that the battery keeping your CMOS alive (and hence the time/date
>>> information) has reached its limits and is beginning to fail.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Which would be first thought if the computer was ever turned off :)...
>> System time doesn't rely on CMOS clock except to to reand from the clock
>> on boot.
>>
>>
> I'd say the same thing that Brian said, but maybe the battery isn't the
> problem, only one of the symptoms... I got the exact same situation a
> couple of months ago with one of my computer ( that one running doze
> tho)... then, other problems started to occur (going from freezes to
> instant reboots). At some point, I noticed that at every reboots, I
> would have to redo the settings in the Bios...
>
> The problem was in fact the power supply that wasn't giving enough power
> on the 3.3v, so the system was relying on the battery... When the
> battery drained... oups...
>
> In your bios, look if you don't have a voltage monitor. If the voltages
> there are too far from their rated voltage, there may be a problem
> (remember, when the OS is loaded, computer needs more power than when in
> the Bios only...
>
> Hope this helps...
>


Thanks all for the suggestion.. Unfortunately, after a grueling surgery
to replace my power supply, there is no change. The system clocks still
looses about 5 seconds per hour (note that the CMOS clock remains on the
right time, which can be verified with hwclock -r)

Both power supply (the old and the new) check out ok in the BIOS and on
a power supply tester.

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Karl Larsen 05-15-2008 07:52 PM

Computer loosing time
 
Rashkae wrote:
> Albert Charron wrote:
>
>> Rashkae wrote:
>>
>>> Brian Lunergan wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Rashkae <ubuntu@tigershaunt.com>
>>>> Reply-To: Ubuntu user technical support, not for general discussions
>>>> <ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com>
>>>> To: Ubuntu user technical support, not for general discussions
>>>> <ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com>
>>>> Subject: Computer loosing time
>>>> Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 21:55:16 -0400
>>>> Mailer: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (X11/20080227)
>>>>
>>>> What would cause a computer to loose time while it's on and running?
>>>> (approx. 10 minutes lost every 24 hrs) It's easy enough to sync the
>>>> clock with NTP, but it makes no sense to me that my pc can't count
>>>> seconds properly.
>>>>
>>>> There may be other explanations possible (the ubertechs in the group
>>>> can get themselves around that) but my speculative thought would be
>>>> that the battery keeping your CMOS alive (and hence the time/date
>>>> information) has reached its limits and is beginning to fail.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Which would be first thought if the computer was ever turned off :)...
>>> System time doesn't rely on CMOS clock except to to reand from the clock
>>> on boot.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> I'd say the same thing that Brian said, but maybe the battery isn't the
>> problem, only one of the symptoms... I got the exact same situation a
>> couple of months ago with one of my computer ( that one running doze
>> tho)... then, other problems started to occur (going from freezes to
>> instant reboots). At some point, I noticed that at every reboots, I
>> would have to redo the settings in the Bios...
>>
>> The problem was in fact the power supply that wasn't giving enough power
>> on the 3.3v, so the system was relying on the battery... When the
>> battery drained... oups...
>>
>> In your bios, look if you don't have a voltage monitor. If the voltages
>> there are too far from their rated voltage, there may be a problem
>> (remember, when the OS is loaded, computer needs more power than when in
>> the Bios only...
>>
>> Hope this helps...
>>
>>
>
>
> Thanks all for the suggestion.. Unfortunately, after a grueling surgery
> to replace my power supply, there is no change. The system clocks still
> looses about 5 seconds per hour (note that the CMOS clock remains on the
> right time, which can be verified with hwclock -r)
>
> Both power supply (the old and the new) check out ok in the BIOS and on
> a power supply tester.
>
>
Assuming you have a Gnome computer please right click the time in
the right corner of the Desktop. Then look at all the tabs and make sure
they are all proper. Make sure you can reset time in the "Adjust date
and Time" tab.

Karl


--

Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI
Linux User
#450462 http://counter.li.org.
PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7


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NoOp 05-15-2008 08:59 PM

Computer loosing time
 
On 05/15/2008 12:12 PM, Rashkae wrote:

>
> Thanks all for the suggestion.. Unfortunately, after a grueling surgery
> to replace my power supply, there is no change. The system clocks still
> looses about 5 seconds per hour (note that the CMOS clock remains on the
> right time, which can be verified with hwclock -r)
>
> Both power supply (the old and the new) check out ok in the BIOS and on
> a power supply tester.
>

man hwclock makes for some interesting reading :-) thanks for posting
that as I never even knew it existed.

FWIW: The CMOS battery can be dead as a doornail (where did that term
come from anyway?) and Ubuntu still works just fine. I have an old Clevo
lapbrick where the CMOS died a few years ago. I replaced it with an old
CMOS battery off of a motherboard that was in a junkbox in the garage,
and it ran Ok until a few weeks ago. It is dead again & it's too much of
a bother to tear the laptop apart and replace it, so I just set it at
BIOS time & off I go. Battery has been dead for 2 years too... Ubuntu
pops right in and the clock keeps pace with my other systems - pretty
much to the second.

sudo hwclock -r on that laptop (Hardy) shows:

-0.514280 seconds

and on this desktop (Gutsy with working CMOS etc)

-0.706494 seconds

and -0.265779 seconds on another desktop (Hardy).

Time on the desktops are configured for ntp via pool.ntp.org servers, on
the laptop with the dead CMOS it has not been configured and is at it's
default (manual). However, I seem to recall that at boot, the laptop
does go out to get it's initial time from the Canonical ntp server even
if ntp is not installed.






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Rashkae 05-16-2008 02:50 PM

Computer loosing time
 
Rashkae wrote:

>
> Thanks all for the suggestion.. Unfortunately, after a grueling surgery
> to replace my power supply, there is no change. The system clocks still
> looses about 5 seconds per hour (note that the CMOS clock remains on the
> right time, which can be verified with hwclock -r)
>
> Both power supply (the old and the new) check out ok in the BIOS and on
> a power supply tester.
>

Oops, it looks as though opening the Gnome Adjust Time and Date Dialog
by itself will delay the clock by a second, which is why I still seemed
to be loosing time. (Schroedinger's cat anyone?). Since having
replaced my power supply, my clock no longer looses time on it's own
overnight, (and a hard drive that was always doing some kind of re-sync
grind, which I used to assume was thermal calibration, is no longer
making those strange noises.)

Thank you Albert and David for your perfect diagnosis on limited
information :)

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