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Old 10-02-2012, 12:29 PM
"Joep L. Blom"
 
Default can't run gnome as root - addition

On 02-10-12 13:38, Mark Widdicombe wrote:

On 2 October 2012 13:16, Lentes, Bernd
<bernd.lentes@helmholtz-muenchen.de> wrote:


Colin wrote:


On 2 October 2012 10:14, Lentes, Bernd
<bernd.lentes@helmholtz-muenchen.de> wrote:


Thom wrote:



On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 3:30 PM, Lentes, Bernd
<bernd.lentes@helmholtz-muenchen.de> wrote:

Luan wrote:

On Mon, 2012-10-01 at 17:28 +0200, Lentes, Bernd wrote:


Sorry, i forgot: i'm running LTS 64bit.


try:

$sudo passwd root - to enable root

and:

$sudo passwd -l root - to disable root account.


i did this already. But logging on Gnome using the root account
didn't suceed. After logging on I have a turning wheel

for half an

hour, than I gave up.


Enabling the root user won't be enough. You're going to

have to change

LightDM (assuming that this is your DM) preferences and

possibly pam

preferences too.

Why can't you use sudo/gksudo/pkexec as NoOp suggested?



Hi,

i'd like to use Gnome. Why i don't use sudo ? Because i'm

used to not use it.

I'm using Suse boxes for more than 10 years, and Suse does

not make this sudo staff.

But now i have one piece of software for which i get only

support running on Ubunto or Centos.

I decided für Ubuntu.
One argument for not logging on as root is the argument,

that you can easily make heavy errors.

Well, i'm not using Ubuntu and Suse as a desktop

environment, for this purpose i use Windows.

So, when i log in in a linux box, it's just for

administrative purpose.

When i'm causing trouble, it's my problem. I know that.
On my suse boxes, i do 95% of my administrative tasks using

a shell, not having a DM.

But i'm new to Ubuntu, so in the beginning it's likely that

i want use the DM from time to time.

When i'm used to Ubuntu, the DM will be uninstalled.


If you are only going to use the DM occasionally then I think it will
be easier to learn how to use sudo and gksu to do what you want than
it will be trying to get the UI to run as root.



Hi,

why do i have to adapt the OS ? I think the OS should adapt to the needs and wishes of the user as far as possible.


Of course you have to adapt to the OS. There is a limit to the amount
of configurability it is possible to build in from a practical point
of view.


I KNOW that it is not the recommended way to login to X as root, but i did it often and never got any problems.
It's my box, and if i'm making an error, it's my problem.


If you know it's not recommended why do it? sudo is extremely easy to use.


The only error i did happened on a terminal, not in a GUI.
I'm not used to sudo and all ist friends, and i don't like to use it.
In a car the blinker is always on the left side, and no manufactur installed it on the right side, expecting that all the drivers will adapt.


Try Toyota,--had a hire car once and every time I signalled a turn the
wipers came on.


OS like suse, RedHat, fedora also don't use this way with sudo, so it can't be dangerous. I can't imagine that these distributors will provide a inherent unsecure OS.


Why are you using an OS you clearly don't like, instead of ones that
you obviously perceive as superior?

I agree with Mark completely! If you use root you're dangerous for
yourself and others who are dependent of you.
I work with unix-like OS's since 1971 when intrusion, theft, etc was
unthinkable but we never used root as a user. Don't forget: root is
omnipotent - just as each user in Windows when he has the knowledge,
(luckily 99 % doesn't) -.
RedHat, Suse FEdora all warn against the use of root as user. Moreover,
the su command is as old as Unix. Only a later fad is sudo but actually,
when I have need for a root environment I use su -l, do the necessary
task and delete the environment. Root as user is never a necessity. If
you have a problem you think you only can solve as root ask it this
community and we'll try to find a solution.

Joep


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Old 10-02-2012, 12:34 PM
Liam Proven
 
Default can't run gnome as root - addition

On 2 October 2012 13:16, Lentes, Bernd
<bernd.lentes@helmholtz-muenchen.de> wrote:

>
> why do i have to adapt the OS ? I think the OS should adapt to the needs and wishes of the user as far as possible.

Nobody is forcing you to use this OS. There are many others to choose from.

Comparison: I am left-handed. I do not own a car but I have a full
licence to drive. It is much easier for me to steer with my left hand
and change gears with my right, as my left hand has better control.

But I am British. In my country, the controls are on the right, to
provide best visibility for the driver as cars drive on the left. I
could get a left-hand drive car which would suit me personally better,
but then, I would not be able to see to overtake and so on, because
I'd be on the wrong side, unlike almost everyone else.

The small advantage is outweighed by the big advantage.

When I started to use Ubuntu, after 15y on other Unixes with working
root accounts, I found it inconvenient. I enabled and used root.

But then I got used to it and decided to play along with the way that
the OS was designed to work. To do admin stuff, I use `sudo -s`. This
works just fine.

You can continue to try to do things your own way, but it is not the
best way. It is easier to play along.

You chose to use Ubuntu. So, either learn the Ubuntu way, or, if you
cannot adapt, then go use some other OS. But if you try to make Ubuntu
into SUSE, you will not be happy and in the end you will fail.

Save yourself this trouble.

> I KNOW that it is not the recommended way to login to X as root, but i did it often and never got any problems.
> It's my box, and if i'm making an error, it's my problem.

Ubuntu is a simplified beginners' Linux. It does user-authentication
the simple, Mac OS X way. Stop fighting it, it is pointless. Accept
it, move on.

> The only error i did happened on a terminal, not in a GUI.
> I'm not used to sudo and all ist friends, and i don't like to use it.

You chose to learn Ubuntu. Start learning!

> In a car the blinker is always on the left side, and no manufactur installed it on the right side, expecting that all the drivers will adapt.
> OS like suse, RedHat, fedora also don't use this way with sudo, so it can't be dangerous.

That is nonsense. Billions of people smoke, although smoking causes
horrible diseases that kill in unpleasant ways.

> I can't imagine that these distributors will provide a inherent unsecure OS.

Motorcycles are inherently dangerous; they fall over unless actively
balanced and offer no protection to the rider. Nonetheless, hundreds
of millions use them, as they are fun and practical.

Just because something is common does not mean it is a good idea.


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Old 10-02-2012, 12:53 PM
Tom H
 
Default can't run gnome as root - addition

On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 5:14 AM, Lentes, Bernd
<bernd.lentes@helmholtz-muenchen.de> wrote:
> Thom wrote:
>> On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 3:30 PM, Lentes, Bernd
>> <bernd.lentes@helmholtz-muenchen.de> wrote:
>>> Luan wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 2012-10-01 at 17:28 +0200, Lentes, Bernd wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry, i forgot: i'm running LTS 64bit.
>>>>
>>>> try:
>>>> $sudo passwd root - to enable root
>>>> and:
>>>> $sudo passwd -l root - to disable root account.
>>>
>>> i did this already. But logging on Gnome using the root account
>>> didn't suceed. After logging on I have a turning wheel for half an
>>> hour, than I gave up.
>>
>> Enabling the root user won't be enough. You're going to have to change
>> LightDM (assuming that this is your DM) preferences and possibly pam
>> preferences too.
>>
>> Why can't you use sudo/gksudo/pkexec as NoOp suggested?
>
> i'd like to use Gnome. Why i don't use sudo ? Because i'm used to
> not use it. I'm using Suse boxes for more than 10 years, and Suse does
> not make this sudo staff. But now i have one piece of software for
> which i get only support running on Ubunto or Centos. I decided für
> Ubuntu. One argument for not logging on as root is the argument, that
> you can easily make heavy errors. Well, i'm not using Ubuntu and Suse
> as a desktop environment, for this purpose i use Windows. So, when i
> log in in a linux box, it's just for administrative purpose. When i'm
> causing trouble, it's my problem. I know that. On my suse boxes, i do
> 95% of my administrative tasks using a shell, not having a DM. But i'm
> new to Ubuntu, so in the beginning it's likely that i want use the DM
> from time to time. When i'm used to Ubuntu, the DM will be
> uninstalled.

I don't know how to enable root GUI login beyond what I said in my
previous post - and that was based on doing so in previous versions of
Debian/Fedora/RHEL/Ubuntu . I doubt that OpenSUSE allows a root GUI
login by default in a GNOME installation since this restriction's an
upstream default so I don't think that you're not re-creating your
OpenSUSE environment by enabling the root GUI login...

However, if you need to launch a GUI app with root privileges, all you
have to do is prepend "gksudo" or "pkexec" to it in Ubuntu (although
I'm not sure how completely pkexec is configured on Ubuntu) or
"pkexec" in Fedora (and at least "pkexec" in OpenSUSE, which I've
never used, since this comes directly from upstream GNOME and PolKit).

If you need to have root privileges in a console or an xterm for
multiple commands, you don't even need to enable root. "sudo -s" is
the same as "su" and "sudo -i" is the same as "su -".

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Old 10-02-2012, 01:01 PM
Tom H
 
Default can't run gnome as root - addition

On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 7:16 AM, Lentes, Bernd
<bernd.lentes@helmholtz-muenchen.de> wrote:
>
> OS like suse, RedHat, fedora also don't use this way with sudo,
> so it can't be dangerous. I can't imagine that these distributors
> will provide a inherent unsecure OS.

Please no FUD.

Neither RHEL nor Fedora allow root to login at the GUI by default,
even though root is enabled by default and you can login as root at
the console by default.

And, FYI, Fedora's current development version's installed with root
disabled by default.

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Old 10-02-2012, 01:09 PM
Tom H
 
Default can't run gnome as root - addition

On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 8:29 AM, Joep L. Blom <jlblom@neuroweave.nl> wrote:
>
> I work with unix-like OS's since 1971 when intrusion, theft, etc was
> unthinkable but we never used root as a user. Don't forget: root is
> omnipotent - just as each user in Windows when he has the knowledge,
> (luckily 99 % doesn't) -.

You may never have logged in root but I contracted at a company three
years ago where practically all the admins telnet'd (not ssh'd) as
root into all their boxes...

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Old 10-02-2012, 03:03 PM
"Kevin O'Gorman"
 
Default can't run gnome as root - addition

On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 6:09 AM, Tom H <tomh0665@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 8:29 AM, Joep L. Blom <jlblom@neuroweave.nl> wrote:
>>
>> I work with unix-like OS's since 1971 when intrusion, theft, etc was
>> unthinkable but we never used root as a user. Don't forget: root is
>> omnipotent - just as each user in Windows when he has the knowledge,
>> (luckily 99 % doesn't) -.
>
> You may never have logged in root but I contracted at a company three
> years ago where practically all the admins telnet'd (not ssh'd) as
> root into all their boxes...

When I first moved to Ubuntu, I was annoyed by the lack of a root
password, but I worked with it. Then the system had a problem during
boot, and I got dumped into a hell where fixing the problem needed the
(non-existent) root password. I got around this and got the system
back running, but my annoyance limit had been reached. My systems
have had a root password ever since, and I usually leave one workspace
populated by root terminals 24/7 and never regretted it. I've never
needed to actually run the GUI as root.

I've personally owned Unix (SYSV or ESIX) or various Linux systems
since 1984, which probably explains my preferences.

My advice: set it up the way you want it, but don't complain that your
setup is not the default. If you can't do that, maybe you have the
wrong software.

--
Kevin O'Gorman

programmer, n. an organism that transmutes caffeine into software.

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Old 10-02-2012, 04:12 PM
"Lentes, Bernd"
 
Default can't run gnome as root - addition

Jared wrote:

> >
> > why do i have to adapt the OS ? I think the OS should adapt
> to the needs and wishes of the user as far as possible.
>
> It can, it's only limited by what you tell it to do. You are free to
> change any/all of the default options provided by the distribution.
> They are only that, defaults.
>
> > I KNOW that it is not the recommended way to login to X as
> root, but i did it often and never got any problems.
>
> Their defaults are apparently set up differently.
>
> > It's my box, and if i'm making an error, it's my problem.
>
> Correct, that is the luxury of linux.
>
> > The only error i did happened on a terminal, not in a GUI.
> > I'm not used to sudo and all ist friends, and i don't like
> to use it.
>
> Again, this is the default way Ubuntu is set up, feel free to change
> at your whim.
>
> *Snip*
>
> Now, from the brief research I have conducted it is apparently quite
> easy to achieve what you're trying to achieve. I would suggest trying
> the second hit on google [0] and letting us know if there are any
> issues you encounter.
>
> [0]
> http://www.liberiangeek.net/2012/05/login-as-root-in-ubuntu-12
> -04-precise-pangolin/
>
Hi,

thanks, that's it. I found that before while i was googleing, but didn't used it because i didn't use lightdm.
After some hours of searching in the net i decided to install the package ubuntu-desktop, which included lightdm.

It's working fine.

Thanks.


Bernd

Helmholtz Zentrum München
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Old 10-02-2012, 10:25 PM
"Joep L. Blom"
 
Default can't run gnome as root - addition

Again,
I agree with compdoc and Liam ( who has much better comparisons than I
have). Just as Liam I'm left-handed (well actually ambi-dexter) but
luckily I live in the Netherlands where the 'normal' way of driving is
implemented and Liam's explanation is a perfect one to explain why most
drivers here are such bad one's: they're right-handed(!).


To complete my s0rt of ranting against using root us user: when you're
well experienced with Unix and Linux it is of course sensible to
implement a root password for those moments you really need a root
environment, e.g. when salvaging corrupt sectors with important
information from a disk, researching network problems or tweaking
drivers, etc. But that is not the stuff new linux users must attack, and
as Liam rightfully mentions, Ubuntu us simplified beginners Linux and
tries to prevent them to corrupt their OS which is easily done when
being root: ever tried rm * when as root being in the root-directory??

Joep

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Old 10-03-2012, 04:41 AM
Ric Moore
 
Default can't run gnome as root - addition

On 10/02/2012 07:16 AM, Lentes, Bernd wrote:


I'm not used to sudo and all ist friends, and i don't like to use it.
In a car the blinker is always on the left side, and no manufactur installed it on the right side, expecting that all the drivers will adapt.
OS like suse, RedHat, fedora also don't use this way with sudo, so it can't be dangerous. I can't imagine that these distributors will provide a inherent unsecure OS.


When I worked at RedHat, you didn't run your machine as root ...ever.
You and your hat would be on the sidewalk. Once you get used to using su
it's no big deal. And, your machine will be safer for it. If you get
something malicious as the user, all that can be attacked is user space.
If you run as root, everything can be blown up to hell and gone. So,
it's not a good idea if you use the Internet. It's a Debian thing to
enforce good user habits. At one time I disagreed, now I don't.


Plus, if you acquire a trojan or a virus, running as root it will wreck
havoc on the rest of us since it can do as it pleases with your network
connection. Then when the cops haul you off for hosting kiddie porn,
that you knew nothing about, don't say you weren't warned. Ric



--
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"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html

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Old 10-03-2012, 07:14 PM
NoOp
 
Default can't run gnome as root - addition

On 10/02/2012 04:16 AM, Lentes, Bernd wrote:
>
> Colin wrote:
>>
>> On 2 October 2012 10:14, Lentes, Bernd
>> <bernd.lentes@helmholtz-muenchen.de> wrote:
>> >
>> > Thom wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 3:30 PM, Lentes, Bernd
>> >> <bernd.lentes@helmholtz-muenchen.de> wrote:
>> >> > Luan wrote:
>> >> >> On Mon, 2012-10-01 at 17:28 +0200, Lentes, Bernd wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Sorry, i forgot: i'm running LTS 64bit.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> try:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> $sudo passwd root - to enable root
>> >> >>
>> >> >> and:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> $sudo passwd -l root - to disable root account.
>> >> >
>> >> > i did this already. But logging on Gnome using the root account
>> >> > didn't suceed. After logging on I have a turning wheel
<snip rest of OS should addapt to me drivel>

Login as your regular admin user. Open a terminal:

gksu gedit /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf
(or sudo vi /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf if you prefer vi)
add this line:
greeter-show-manual-login=true
save. Exit and reboot. Upon reboot you'll have an added option: "Login"
click that, enter root as username and the root password that you set.

Next time you might be better served by installing just the server
version of Ubuntu.
<https://help.ubuntu.com/12.04/index.html>



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