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Old 09-17-2012, 09:26 AM
lazer100
 
Default install gparted on Ubuntu 8.10

Hi Nils,

all your suggestions in the 2 emails worked and have resolved
all the problems mentioned!

many thanks!

further specifics follow,


On 17-Sep-12 09:46:07 Nils Kassube wrote:
>lazer100 wrote:
>> I am unable to install gparted on Ubuntu 8.10,

>That's normal because 8.10 is an ancient version which is no longer
>supported.

>> this is what happens when I try the command
>>
>> $ sudo apt-get install gparted

>> Err http://archive.ubuntu.com intrepid/main gparted 0.3.8-1ubuntu2
>> 404 Not Found [IP: 91.189.92.184 80]

>As your version is no longer supported, the repositories are no longer
>available at the places known to your machine. I would suggest to
>reinstall the current version 12.04. Upgrading would take too much time
>because the supported path would be too many steps: 8.10 -> 9.04 -> 9.10
>-> 10.04 -> 12.04.

>However if you can't upgrade / reinstall for some reason,

I will probably upgrade in addition, for various things I want to use
8.10 as I like the configuration, and I know my way around the system.


I can install 2 versions of Linux to this PC,


>change your
>/etc/apt/sources.list and use the server old-releases.ubuntu.com instead
>of archive.ubuntu.com. Then the entries should look like this:

>deb http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid main

>Don't forget to use the command

>sudo apt-get update

>before you try again to install gparted.

this has worked! I can now run gparted.

I replaced all instances of the URL by the new URL and then did the above
update command,
and then successfully installed and ran gparted.

I noticed that the above command line also has "restricted" as a further
argument





>Nils

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Old 09-17-2012, 09:42 AM
lazer100
 
Default install gparted on Ubuntu 8.10

On 17-Sep-12 10:14:36 Nils Kassube wrote:
>lazer100 wrote:
>> when I try
>>
>> df -h
>>
>> I get:
>>
>> Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
>> /dev/sda3 9.7G 2.5G 6.8G 27% /
>> tmpfs 2.0G 0 2.0G 0% /lib/init/rw
>> varrun 2.0G 84K 2.0G 1% /var/run
>> varlock 2.0G 0 2.0G 0% /var/lock
>> udev 2.0G 2.9M 2.0G 1% /dev
>> tmpfs 2.0G 104K 2.0G 1% /dev/shm
>> lrm 2.0G 2.4M 2.0G 1%
>> /lib/modules/2.6.27-7-generic/volatile
>> /dev/sdb1 7.5G 5.8G 1.8G 78% /media/QUICK
>> /dev/sda1 49G 43G 6.8G 87% /media/disk
>>
>> but its not showing the system drive which is about 500G, that must
>> be /dev/sda

>/dev/sda is the entire disk but the df command only shows mounted
>partitions.

>> and it doesnt show the 1 terabyte drive I want to zero, which is
>> unformatted currently:

>If it is unformatted it can't be mounted and therefore you can't see it
>with the df command. Use

>sudo fdisk -l

>instead to list the wanted information for all your disks.

this has worked, when I used the command it echoes:


Disk /dev/sda: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60801 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x41fe41fd

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sda1 * 1 6374 51199123+ 7 HPFS/NTFS
/dev/sda2 6375 12748 51199155 6 FAT16
/dev/sda3 12749 14023 10241437+ 83 Linux
/dev/sda4 14024 14660 5116702+ f W95 Ext'd (LBA)
/dev/sda5 14024 14660 5116671 82 Linux swap / Solaris

Disk /dev/sdb: 8029 MB, 8029470208 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 976 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x00000000

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sdb1 1 976 7839698 b W95 FAT32

Disk /dev/sdc: 1000.2 GB, 1000204886016 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 121601 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x00000000

Disk /dev/sdc doesn't contain a valid partition table



thus /dev/sda is the system drive, and /dev/sdc is the 1tb drive I mentioned.

I'll try to zero the drive later as this is quite time consuming,

Linux zeroing is the only practical way to wipe a drive, as you cannot
wipe data on Windows,

on Windows even if you delete files, empty the recycle bin, delete partitions,
create new partitions with different boundaries, fully reformat these,
most of the files and directories will all be there if you use a good
salvage program such as File Scavenger 4.0!

there is a video on YouTube which shows someone doing a full reformat
of a volume and retrieving all the original files with the above program,
I tried this out myself and the video is correct, I successfully viewed photos
on
the drive salvaged by the program.


I bought some file wiping Windows software which also wipes drives,
but it wipes the sectors using the same strange multipass algorithm
used for files, I wanted to do 32 passes, but even after 8 hours
it hadnt even completed 1 percent!





>> unfortunately if I try tab completion with /dev/ ie to press tab
>> after this, it lists various things but none of the drives,
>>
>> I think that is a defect with the implementation of tab completion,

>IMHO the tab completion works quite well but in the /dev folder there
>are not only disks listed but all devices known to the system, so tab
>completion won't show only what you are looking for. You could try
>/dev/sd and then tab because then you limit the selection to disks.

on trying this what I found is that tab completion of /dev/ and /dev/sd show
the drives
but only if you do this in context eg:

dd if=/dev/[tab]

and

dd if=/dev/sd[tab]

show all the drives, but if you try:

$ /dev/[tab]

or

$ /dev/sd[tab]

it doesnt show the drives


I am used to a computer system where tab completion shows everything
regardless
of context,


anyway, you have successfully answered every question I asked on this topic
in various emails!




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Old 09-17-2012, 09:47 AM
lazer100
 
Default install gparted on Ubuntu 8.10

On 17-Sep-12 10:21:18 Doug wrote:
>On 09/16/2012 06:50 PM, lazer100 wrote:
>> On 17-Sep-12 05:12:10 Doug wrote:
>>> On 09/16/2012 03:53 PM, lazer100 wrote:
>>>> On 17-Sep-12 04:41:11 Doug wrote:
>>>>> On 09/16/2012 02:50 PM, lazer100 wrote:
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am unable to install gparted on Ubuntu 8.10,
>>>>>>
>>>>> /snip/
>>>>>> how do I install this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanx
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> You'll be better off downloading a live version of GParted or Partition
>>>>> Magic and burning to
>>>>> a CD. You can't mess with the partitions on a disk on which you are
>>>>> running an OS, so
>>>>> if you burn a CD, you can do partitioning on any hard drive on the
>>>>> system from there.
>>>>> --doug
>>>> I want to dabble with an external USB drive, I want to zero the drive
>using
>>>> dd and /dev/zero,
>>>>
>>>> I need gparted to determine the device name of the drive, I'm in fact
only
>>>> going to use gparted in a read only way,
>>>>
>>>> is there any other way to determine the device name of the drive,
>>>> something like /dev/sdb
>>> If you have Dolphin, or whatever Ubuntu uses as an equivalent, it
>>> may tell you what the partition name is, as you go and click on
>>> each partition. If not, after you have snapped on each partition,
>>> noting what size it is for comparison with the next step, open
>>> a terminal and type df -h.
>>> You will get an output like this:
>>> [doug@Linux1 ~]$ df -h
>>> Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
>>> /dev/sda9 12G 7.8G 3.7G 69% /
>>> /dev/sda11 208G 14G 195G 7% /home
>>> /dev/sda8 30G 66M 30G 1% /media/sda8
>>> /dev/sda7 122G 2.0G 114G 2% /media/disk
>>> /dev/sdb5 39G 188M 37G 1% /media/disk-1
>>> /dev/sda6 25G 500M 23G 3% /media/disk-2
>>> /dev/sda1 62G 17G 46G 27% /media/Windows
>>> /dev/sdb1 59G 52M 56G 1% /media/disk-3
>>> /dev/sdc1 3.8G 536M 3.3G 14% /media/disk-4
>>> Now you can see what everything is, and what the /dev name is
>> there is no program dolphin or Dolphin,
>>
>> if I try to install this with sudo apt-get it wont install,
>> its as if someone has disconnected the support framework for 8.10,
>>
>> I dont like using later versions of Ubuntu because it is becoming
>> too much like Windows, with too much automatic downloading of stuff
>> etc unasked. Ubuntu 8.10 is the optimal version of Ubuntu IMHO.
>>
>> I dont see why they cannot just leave that stuff online,
>> webspace is cheap, I own some URLs myself and have at least
>> 250G of server space for a few dollars a month,
>>
>> its like there is an agenda to shepherd everyone towards
>> things they dont want.
>>
>>
>> when I try
>>
>> df -h
>>
>> I get:
>>
>>
>> Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
>> /dev/sda3 9.7G 2.5G 6.8G 27% /
>> tmpfs 2.0G 0 2.0G 0% /lib/init/rw
>> varrun 2.0G 84K 2.0G 1% /var/run
>> varlock 2.0G 0 2.0G 0% /var/lock
>> udev 2.0G 2.9M 2.0G 1% /dev
>> tmpfs 2.0G 104K 2.0G 1% /dev/shm
>> lrm 2.0G 2.4M 2.0G 1%
>> /lib/modules/2.6.27-7-generic/volatile
>> /dev/sdb1 7.5G 5.8G 1.8G 78% /media/QUICK
>> /dev/sda1 49G 43G 6.8G 87% /media/disk
>>
>> but its not showing the system drive which is about 500G, that must be
>> /dev/sda
>> and it doesnt show the 1 terabyte drive I want to zero, which is
unformatted
>> currently:
>I don't know what GUI program Ubuntu uses to show all the partitions,
>drives,
>directories, partitions, and so on, like Dolphin does in many distros. What
>Dolphin does, when you snap on the partitions it finds, is it mounts them.
>If they are unmounted, df can't see them. You need an Ubuntu expert--I'm
>not one. I tried. Sorry.

your suggestion is a useful new trick, and has acted as a catalyst
to refine the question, Nils Kassube's 2 emails have now answered
the ensuing questions




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Old 09-17-2012, 10:02 AM
lazer100
 
Default install gparted on Ubuntu 8.10

On 17-Sep-12 13:23:18 Oliver Grawert wrote:
>hi,
>Am Sonntag, den 16.09.2012, 23:50 +0500 schrieb lazer100:
>>
>> I am unable to install gparted on Ubuntu 8.10,
>>
>> this is what happens when I try the command

>> Install these packages without verification [y/N]? y
>> Err http://archive.ubuntu.com intrepid/main gparted 0.3.8-1ubuntu2
>> 404 Not Found [IP: 91.189.92.184 80]
>> Failed to fetch

>discontinued releases are moved to http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ you
>can update your sources.list entries to it ...

this has worked via Nils Kassube's suggestions,


>i would highly suggest to upgrade though, 8.10 has not seen any securty
>fixes since over two years, such a machine should not be connected to
>the internet...

I mainly use 8.10 for non internet uses, eg I use gcc and gdb to
debug portable software, and I use various shell programs for
various disk management purposes, eg I use dd to do sector
backups of drives and volumes,

eg on Windows I find System Restore doesnt work for more involved
changes, so instead I use Linux dd to make sector backups of
the system volume which is guaranteed to always work.

with these questions I was looking at a new idea which is to
zero drives and volumes, as you cannot wipe drives properly on Windows,
no matter what you do the files can still be salvaged, even if
you defragment and fully reformat, deleted files can still be salvaged
on Windows! the upside is that if you accidentally delete files on
Windows eg even if you do a full reformat, that you can probably
retrieve the original files! eg if you accidentally fully reformatted
the wrong volume on XP you should be able to retrieve the entirety!


for the drive in question I would zero via:

dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdc

but I will do that later as its going to take several hours,
that will be my first attempt to zero a drive.

I will then use the Windows commercial salvage program to verify everything is
gone.



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Old 09-17-2012, 04:32 PM
Doug
 
Default install gparted on Ubuntu 8.10

On 09/17/2012 02:25 AM, Nils Kassube wrote:

Doug wrote:

I don't know what GUI program Ubuntu uses to show all the partitions,
drives,
directories, partitions, and so on, like Dolphin does in many
distros. What Dolphin does, when you snap on the partitions it
finds, is it mounts them.

Dolphin is a KDE program and therefore most Ubuntu users don't have it
installed. And even Dolphin can only mount the partitions if they are
formatted ...


Nils


Interesting, Nils. I didn't know that the partitions had to be formatted.
Normally, any partition I make I will also format, so I guess I had
never run into that. What does Ubuntu use in place of Dolphin?
(It's been quite a while since I had an Ubuntu distro on one of my
machines.)

Someone (perhaps yourself) suggested to use fdisk -l. that works
nicely, but *you must have root privileges* --su or sudo. I don't
remember the post mentioning that.

Thanx for contributing!

--doug


--
Blessed are the peacekeepers...for they shall be shot at from both sides. --A.M. Greeley


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Old 09-17-2012, 06:19 PM
Nils Kassube
 
Default install gparted on Ubuntu 8.10

Doug wrote:
> Interesting, Nils. I didn't know that the partitions had to be
> formatted. Normally, any partition I make I will also format, so I
> guess I had never run into that.

If you use e.g. gparted it will automatically format the partitions
according to the selected file system but if you use good old fdisk, it
will only write the partition table and not format anything. And if you
overwrite a partition with zeroes, like the OP wanted to do, it is also
not formatted afterwards. These are just two ways to get unformatted
partitions and I suppose there are several more ways.

> What does Ubuntu use in place of
> Dolphin? (It's been quite a while since I had an Ubuntu distro on
> one of my machines.)

I have no idea - I'm a Kubuntu user ...


Nils

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Old 09-17-2012, 06:32 PM
Johnny Rosenberg
 
Default install gparted on Ubuntu 8.10

2012/9/17 Nils Kassube <kassube@gmx.net>:
> Doug wrote:
>> Interesting, Nils. I didn't know that the partitions had to be
>> formatted. Normally, any partition I make I will also format, so I
>> guess I had never run into that.
>
> If you use e.g. gparted it will automatically format the partitions
> according to the selected file system but if you use good old fdisk, it
> will only write the partition table and not format anything. And if you
> overwrite a partition with zeroes, like the OP wanted to do, it is also
> not formatted afterwards. These are just two ways to get unformatted
> partitions and I suppose there are several more ways.
>
>> What does Ubuntu use in place of
>> Dolphin? (It's been quite a while since I had an Ubuntu distro on
>> one of my machines.)

Since Ubuntu is a Gnome distribution, it uses Nautilus, which is not
an exact equivalent to Dolphin, but pretty much, I'd guess.

If you want to see some partition info, you can run the
gnome-system-monitor. It only views mounted partitions, though.


Kind regards

Johnny Rosenberg
ジョニー・*ーゼンバーグ

>
> I have no idea - I'm a Kubuntu user ...
>
>
> Nils
>
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Old 09-26-2012, 07:14 AM
lazer100
 
Default install gparted on Ubuntu 8.10

On 17-Sep-12 23:19:49 Nils Kassube wrote:
>Doug wrote:
>> Interesting, Nils. I didn't know that the partitions had to be
>> formatted. Normally, any partition I make I will also format, so I
>> guess I had never run into that.

>If you use e.g. gparted it will automatically format the partitions
>according to the selected file system

you can select "unformatted" as the formatting option with gparted on 8.10,

but it only shows this option for formatted partitions if you first delete
the partition and then create a new one.

this option isnt shown if you reformat an already formatted one.

I used this in order to zero the drive, as there were some problems zeroing
an already formatted one as I think the zeroing interferes with the file
system,
not sure.

I divided the drive up into several partitions, in order that each
zeroing would be say less than 4 hours.


> but if you use good old fdisk, it
>will only write the partition table and not format anything. And if you
>overwrite a partition with zeroes, like the OP wanted to do, it is also
>not formatted afterwards.

this not being formatted afterwards leads to some problems!
so I needed to unformat the drive initially
with gparted as mentioned above,

another problem which happened was that when you delete and reformat as
unformatted, the partition numbering changes, which makes it more effort
to keep track of which ones had been zeroed.


I managed to get them into ascending numbers, but with some numbers missing,

I dont know if there is any way to renumber the partitions,

so they ascend sdc1 sdc2 sdc3 ....

in the end I drew a diagram of the disk for which parts had been zeroed.


one other problem I had is that one mustnt zero the extended partition
as its not a proper partition!

in order to have lots of partitions for zeroing the drive, its best just
to make the entire drive an extended partition.


I can see now that 1tb drives arent necessarily a good idea because
it took me about 1 week to salvage the drive initially, and probably
at least a day to zero the drive, and the best part of a day to
rerun a low level salvage scan to verify nothing was left.



> These are just two ways to get unformatted
>partitions and I suppose there are several more ways.

>> What does Ubuntu use in place of
>> Dolphin? (It's been quite a while since I had an Ubuntu distro on
>> one of my machines.)

>I have no idea - I'm a Kubuntu user ...


>Nils

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Old 09-26-2012, 12:29 PM
Nils Kassube
 
Default install gparted on Ubuntu 8.10

lazer100 wrote:
> On 17-Sep-12 23:19:49 Nils Kassube wrote:
> >If you use e.g. gparted it will automatically format the partitions
> >according to the selected file system
>
> you can select "unformatted" as the formatting option with gparted on
> 8.10,
>
> but it only shows this option for formatted partitions if you first
> delete the partition and then create a new one.
>
> this option isnt shown if you reformat an already formatted one.

That's interesting - I never noticed that option.

> I used this in order to zero the drive, as there were some problems
> zeroing an already formatted one as I think the zeroing interferes
> with the file system,
> not sure.

Sure it interferes with an existing file system - if you zero a
partition, you REMOVE the file system.

> > but if you use good old fdisk, it
> >will only write the partition table and not format anything. And if
> >you overwrite a partition with zeroes, like the OP wanted to do, it
> >is also not formatted afterwards.
>
> this not being formatted afterwards leads to some problems!

Right, depending on the data already existing in the space now used by
the newly created partition entry it may look like a valid file system
probably with lots of errors.

> so I needed to unformat the drive initially
> with gparted as mentioned above,
>
> another problem which happened was that when you delete and reformat
> as unformatted, the partition numbering changes, which makes it more
> effort to keep track of which ones had been zeroed.
>
>
> I managed to get them into ascending numbers, but with some numbers
> missing,

The numbers are always 1 to 4 for the primary partitions and from 5
upwards for logical partitions inside the extended partition. So if you
only have one primary partition you can't have the remaining numbers
below 5. But from 5 upwards there shouldn't be any numbers missing.

> I dont know if there is any way to renumber the partitions,
> so they ascend sdc1 sdc2 sdc3 ....

I think you could use fdisk and first delete all partitions and then
create new entries with the same geometry and partition type as the
partitions you have now but in the wanted order. However it is very
error-prone and I would avoid it if at all possible. OTOH, as long as
you are playing with an empty disk there shouldn't be a real problem.

> one other problem I had is that one mustnt zero the extended
> partition as its not a proper partition!

Right. If you zero the extended partition you loose all logical
partitions inside the extended partition ...


Nils

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Old 09-28-2012, 06:03 PM
lazer100
 
Default install gparted on Ubuntu 8.10

On 26-Sep-12 17:29:52 Nils Kassube wrote:
>lazer100 wrote:
>> On 17-Sep-12 23:19:49 Nils Kassube wrote:
>> >If you use e.g. gparted it will automatically format the partitions
>> >according to the selected file system
>>
>> you can select "unformatted" as the formatting option with gparted on
>> 8.10,
>>
>> but it only shows this option for formatted partitions if you first
>> delete the partition and then create a new one.
>>
>> this option isnt shown if you reformat an already formatted one.

>That's interesting - I never noticed that option.

>> I used this in order to zero the drive, as there were some problems
>> zeroing an already formatted one as I think the zeroing interferes
>> with the file system,
>> not sure.

>Sure it interferes with an existing file system - if you zero a
>partition, you REMOVE the file system.

I guess one should only zero an "unformatted" partition,


>> > but if you use good old fdisk, it
>> >will only write the partition table and not format anything. And if
>> >you overwrite a partition with zeroes, like the OP wanted to do, it
>> >is also not formatted afterwards.
>>
>> this not being formatted afterwards leads to some problems!

>Right, depending on the data already existing in the space now used by
>the newly created partition entry it may look like a valid file system
>probably with lots of errors.

directly accessing sectors of a filesystem does have its uses,
namely to do a sectorwise backup, eg I do sectorwise backups of Windows C:
on Linux using dd, that way I can restore verbatim the Windows system
if there are problems. This of course will only run on the existing PC
not on other PC's, you'd have to reactivate Windows if you tried to
use that on another PC, as also is the case if you tried to reuse the
system drive on another PC.

but the zeroing would seem to be an inadvisable use of dd
for a volume formatted for some file system.

ie one dabbles with low level use of dd at one's own risk!

perhaps they should put a warning message if you do such


>> so I needed to unformat the drive initially
>> with gparted as mentioned above,
>>
>> another problem which happened was that when you delete and reformat
>> as unformatted, the partition numbering changes, which makes it more
>> effort to keep track of which ones had been zeroed.
>>
>>
>> I managed to get them into ascending numbers, but with some numbers
>> missing,

>The numbers are always 1 to 4 for the primary partitions and from 5
>upwards for logical partitions inside the extended partition. So if you
>only have one primary partition you can't have the remaining numbers
>below 5. But from 5 upwards there shouldn't be any numbers missing.

in that case there wasnt a problem, I think it was

1
5
6
7
...
16

where 1 is the extended partition,

I guess that has advantages over just numbering 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 regardless
as it will be more stable to changes, ie changing the primary partitions
I think wont change the logical partition numbering.


>> I dont know if there is any way to renumber the partitions,
>> so they ascend sdc1 sdc2 sdc3 ....

>I think you could use fdisk and first delete all partitions and then
>create new entries with the same geometry and partition type as the
>partitions you have now but in the wanted order. However it is very
>error-prone and I would avoid it if at all possible. OTOH, as long as
>you are playing with an empty disk there shouldn't be a real problem.

>> one other problem I had is that one mustnt zero the extended
>> partition as its not a proper partition!

>Right. If you zero the extended partition you loose all logical
>partitions inside the extended partition ...

another thing to not do with dd!

I have some further questions as regards this drive, but as its
a slightly different theme I will start that as a new topic,
the subject line is about sector testing, if you have any ideas
on that please reply on that topic,




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