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Old 09-15-2012, 06:43 PM
"Murat D. Kadirov"
 
Default minimal CD --> startx

On 15.09.2012 17:27, Thufir wrote:

I'm planning a clean install of 12.04 from the minimal CD (yes, this is
the disc I want to use). I want to just install enough of a system to run
"startx" from the terminal, but explicitly want nothing more.

Has startx been deprecated with:

sudo service gdm start


Also, which package(s) do I need to install just for the simplest
X Windows system?


apt-get install xinit xserver-xorg-video-intel xserver-xorg
xserver-xorg-input-kbd


Replace xserver-xorg-video-intel with video driver for your video card.

Here is what I was using for installing my system from scratch with very
tuning packages selection.
Add 'APT::Install-Recommends "0";' and 'APT::Install-Suggests "0";' to
/etc/apt/apt.conf. I am using fluxbox.


apt-get install fluxbox xdm xinit xserver-xorg-video-intel
xserver-xorg-input-synaptics xserver-xorg xterm xfonts-terminus mutt mc
p7zip-full mplayer lynx wpasupplicant ttf-ubuntu-font-family
light-themes lxappearance unrar unzip evince-gtk firefox
ubuntu-restricted-extras ttf-mscorefonts-installer flashplugin-installer
libreoffice-writer libreoffice-impress libreoffice-calc libreoffice-gtk
pidgin thunderbird vim newsbeuter network-manager network-manager-gnome
mobile-broadband-provider-info notification-daemon
xserver-xorg-input-kbd xcompmgr transset volumeicon network-manager
network-manager-gnome libpam-ck-connector network-manager-pptp
modemmanager usb-modeswitch brosero virtualbox




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Old 09-15-2012, 11:39 PM
Thufir
 
Default minimal CD --> startx

On Sat, 15 Sep 2012 16:33:12 +0200, Oliver Grawert wrote:

>> Also, which package(s) do I need to install just for the simplest X
>> Windows system?
>>
> sudo apt-get install xorg
>
> (xorg is the metapackage that pulls in the X system)


Ah, ok, metapackage, I think that's what I'm probably looking for.


Thanks, I'll check that out,

-Thufir


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Old 09-15-2012, 11:53 PM
Oliver Grawert
 
Default minimal CD --> startx

hi,
On Sat, 15 Sep 2012 18:40:02 +0100
Liam Proven <lproven@gmail.com> wrote:
> And what exactly does one *do* with this, that is the question?
>
> It ain't "X-Windows" if there aren't any windows. ;)
>
wow, i love that we have this discussion since it reminds me how far
linux on the desktop has come since people like i started using
it ...

had you started where i come from then you would have used a desk
calculator to compute the proper modelines for your CRT by hand (always
being anxious because you know a single wrong number could fry the
thing into an irreparable boulder)

anyway, back to the topic, after you would have successfully started
your new X the only thing that would show up was an unmanaged xterm
window in the top left of your screen after you ran startx ...

and guess what, that didnt change til today ... and you can do a lot
with an unmanaged xterm (compile a window manager and run it for
example)

its really good to see that only old farts like me seem to remember
this and that its knowledge thats only good for an anecdote in a ML
today because our system got so far ...

but in any case: sudo apt-get install xorg && startx
gets you actually something to work with, there is exactly one window
and it is unmanaged.

ciao
oli
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Old 09-16-2012, 01:19 AM
Thufir
 
Default minimal CD --> startx

On Sun, 16 Sep 2012 01:53:37 +0200, Oliver Grawert wrote:


> but in any case: sudo apt-get install xorg && startx gets you actually
> something to work with, there is exactly one window and it is unmanaged.

Thank you for answering the question which I meant to ask.

-Thufir


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Old 09-16-2012, 07:22 AM
Patrick Asselman
 
Default minimal CD --> startx

On 2012-09-16 01:53, Oliver Grawert wrote:

hi,
On Sat, 15 Sep 2012 18:40:02 +0100
Liam Proven <lproven@gmail.com> wrote:

And what exactly does one *do* with this, that is the question?

It ain't "X-Windows" if there aren't any windows. ;)


wow, i love that we have this discussion since it reminds me how far
linux on the desktop has come since people like i started using
it ...

had you started where i come from then you would have used a desk
calculator to compute the proper modelines for your CRT by hand
(always

being anxious because you know a single wrong number could fry the
thing into an irreparable boulder)

anyway, back to the topic, after you would have successfully started
your new X the only thing that would show up was an unmanaged xterm
window in the top left of your screen after you ran startx ...

and guess what, that didnt change til today ... and you can do a
lot

with an unmanaged xterm (compile a window manager and run it for
example)

its really good to see that only old farts like me seem to remember
this and that its knowledge thats only good for an anecdote in a ML
today because our system got so far ...

but in any case: sudo apt-get install xorg && startx
gets you actually something to work with, there is exactly one window
and it is unmanaged.

ciao
oli


Thank you for making me feel like an old fart :-(
It's not that long ago, is it? Please? Someone? Anyone? Waaaaah!

But yeah, this sort of cr@p was needed back then.
I still remember the first graphic terminals at university where you
could have a look at the hand-uudecoded-and-merged fractal picture files
you downloaded from the news server. Only to find out later that it had
cost more cpu seconds than you were allowed to use.


Mind you, i'm not that old that I have worked on ye olde VAX/VMS
machines, hmkay?


Best regards,
Patrick Asselman


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Old 09-16-2012, 08:20 AM
chris
 
Default minimal CD --> startx

On Sun, 2012-09-16 at 09:22 +0200, Patrick Asselman wrote:
> On 2012-09-16 01:53, Oliver Grawert wrote:
> > hi,
> > On Sat, 15 Sep 2012 18:40:02 +0100
> > Liam Proven <lproven@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> And what exactly does one *do* with this, that is the question?
> >>
> >> It ain't "X-Windows" if there aren't any windows. ;)
> >>
> > wow, i love that we have this discussion since it reminds me how far
> > linux on the desktop has come since people like i started using
> > it ...
> >
> > had you started where i come from then you would have used a desk
> > calculator to compute the proper modelines for your CRT by hand
> > (always
> > being anxious because you know a single wrong number could fry the
> > thing into an irreparable boulder)
> >
> > anyway, back to the topic, after you would have successfully started
> > your new X the only thing that would show up was an unmanaged xterm
> > window in the top left of your screen after you ran startx ...
> >
> > and guess what, that didnt change til today ... and you can do a
> > lot
> > with an unmanaged xterm (compile a window manager and run it for
> > example)
> >
> > its really good to see that only old farts like me seem to remember
> > this and that its knowledge thats only good for an anecdote in a ML
> > today because our system got so far ...
> >
> > but in any case: sudo apt-get install xorg && startx
> > gets you actually something to work with, there is exactly one window
> > and it is unmanaged.
> >
> > ciao
> > oli
>
> Thank you for making me feel like an old fart :-(
> It's not that long ago, is it? Please? Someone? Anyone? Waaaaah!
>
> But yeah, this sort of cr@p was needed back then.
> I still remember the first graphic terminals at university where you
> could have a look at the hand-uudecoded-and-merged fractal picture files
> you downloaded from the news server. Only to find out later that it had
> cost more cpu seconds than you were allowed to use.
>
> Mind you, i'm not that old that I have worked on ye olde VAX/VMS
> machines, hmkay?
>
> Best regards,
> Patrick Asselman
>
>

I have.:-(


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Old 09-16-2012, 04:11 PM
Liam Proven
 
Default minimal CD --> startx

On 16 September 2012 00:53, Oliver Grawert <ogra@ubuntu.com> wrote:
> hi,
> On Sat, 15 Sep 2012 18:40:02 +0100
> Liam Proven <lproven@gmail.com> wrote:
>> And what exactly does one *do* with this, that is the question?
>>
>> It ain't "X-Windows" if there aren't any windows. ;¬)
>>
> wow, i love that we have this discussion since it reminds me how far
> linux on the desktop has come since people like i started using
> it ...
>
> had you started where i come from then you would have used a desk
> calculator to compute the proper modelines for your CRT by hand (always
> being anxious because you know a single wrong number could fry the
> thing into an irreparable boulder)
>
> anyway, back to the topic, after you would have successfully started
> your new X the only thing that would show up was an unmanaged xterm
> window in the top left of your screen after you ran startx ...
>
> and guess what, that didnt change til today ... and you can do a lot
> with an unmanaged xterm (compile a window manager and run it for
> example)
>
> its really good to see that only old farts like me seem to remember
> this and that its knowledge thats only good for an anecdote in a ML
> today because our system got so far ...

:¬)

Yes indeed. Linux was like this when I started, with Slackware in about 1995.

The thing that surprises me is that FreeBSD still is much like it today.

> but in any case: sudo apt-get install xorg && startx
> gets you actually something to work with, there is exactly one window
> and it is unmanaged.

I would not have linked the commands like that.

Is the single unmanaged terminal session the default? I have often
found myself without, in which case all you can do is kill X with
Ctrl-Alt-Backspace (if "noclobber" is not enabled) or switch to a
different vconsole with Ctrl-Alt-1/2/3/4/5/6 and kill X.

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Old 09-16-2012, 04:14 PM
Liam Proven
 
Default minimal CD --> startx

On 16 September 2012 08:22, Patrick Asselman <iceblink@seti.nl> wrote:
> On 2012-09-16 01:53, Oliver Grawert wrote:
>>
>> hi,
>> On Sat, 15 Sep 2012 18:40:02 +0100
>> Liam Proven <lproven@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> And what exactly does one *do* with this, that is the question?
>>>
>>> It ain't "X-Windows" if there aren't any windows. ;¬)
>>>
>> wow, i love that we have this discussion since it reminds me how far
>> linux on the desktop has come since people like i started using
>> it ...
>>
>> had you started where i come from then you would have used a desk
>> calculator to compute the proper modelines for your CRT by hand (always
>> being anxious because you know a single wrong number could fry the
>> thing into an irreparable boulder)
>>
>> anyway, back to the topic, after you would have successfully started
>> your new X the only thing that would show up was an unmanaged xterm
>> window in the top left of your screen after you ran startx ...
>>
>> and guess what, that didnt change til today ... and you can do a lot
>> with an unmanaged xterm (compile a window manager and run it for
>> example)
>>
>> its really good to see that only old farts like me seem to remember
>> this and that its knowledge thats only good for an anecdote in a ML
>> today because our system got so far ...
>>
>> but in any case: sudo apt-get install xorg && startx
>> gets you actually something to work with, there is exactly one window
>> and it is unmanaged.
>>
>> ciao
>> oli
>
>
> Thank you for making me feel like an old fart :-(
> It's not that long ago, is it? Please? Someone? Anyone? Waaaaah!

Yes, it really was. Someone born at the same time as the Linux kernel,
in 1991, is 21 today. Even in the USA, they could buy alcohol.

Someone born when the kernel hit version 1.0 could drive, vote and marry.

> But yeah, this sort of cr@p was needed back then.
> I still remember the first graphic terminals at university where you could
> have a look at the hand-uudecoded-and-merged fractal picture files you
> downloaded from the news server. Only to find out later that it had cost
> more cpu seconds than you were allowed to use.

:¬D

> Mind you, i'm not that old that I have worked on ye olde VAX/VMS machines,
> hmkay?

Used VAXen at University and sysadmined a bunch of them in the
mid-1990s. I am 44 now.

Just woke from a few hours' sleep after being out nightclubbing 'til
7AM. :¬D It's not how old you are, it's how you are old.

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Old 09-16-2012, 04:18 PM
Liam Proven
 
Default minimal CD --> startx

On 16 September 2012 09:20, chris <chevhq@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 2012-09-16 at 09:22 +0200, Patrick Asselman wrote:
>> On 2012-09-16 01:53, Oliver Grawert wrote:
>> > hi,
>> > On Sat, 15 Sep 2012 18:40:02 +0100
>> > Liam Proven <lproven@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> And what exactly does one *do* with this, that is the question?
>> >>
>> >> It ain't "X-Windows" if there aren't any windows. ;¬)
>> >>
>> > wow, i love that we have this discussion since it reminds me how far
>> > linux on the desktop has come since people like i started using
>> > it ...
>> >
>> > had you started where i come from then you would have used a desk
>> > calculator to compute the proper modelines for your CRT by hand
>> > (always
>> > being anxious because you know a single wrong number could fry the
>> > thing into an irreparable boulder)
>> >
>> > anyway, back to the topic, after you would have successfully started
>> > your new X the only thing that would show up was an unmanaged xterm
>> > window in the top left of your screen after you ran startx ...
>> >
>> > and guess what, that didnt change til today ... and you can do a
>> > lot
>> > with an unmanaged xterm (compile a window manager and run it for
>> > example)
>> >
>> > its really good to see that only old farts like me seem to remember
>> > this and that its knowledge thats only good for an anecdote in a ML
>> > today because our system got so far ...
>> >
>> > but in any case: sudo apt-get install xorg && startx
>> > gets you actually something to work with, there is exactly one window
>> > and it is unmanaged.
>> >
>> > ciao
>> > oli
>>
>> Thank you for making me feel like an old fart :-(
>> It's not that long ago, is it? Please? Someone? Anyone? Waaaaah!
>>
>> But yeah, this sort of cr@p was needed back then.
>> I still remember the first graphic terminals at university where you
>> could have a look at the hand-uudecoded-and-merged fractal picture files
>> you downloaded from the news server. Only to find out later that it had
>> cost more cpu seconds than you were allowed to use.
>>
>> Mind you, i'm not that old that I have worked on ye olde VAX/VMS
>> machines, hmkay?
>
> I have.:-(

Why the sad smiley? VAXen were, and are, cool boxes. Unix came of age
on VAXen - BSD 4 was essentially a VAX OS, and Unix System V inherited
a lot from BSD, and they are where Linux took a lot of its, ah,
inspiration.

VAX/VMS was also an interesting, powerful OS to work with, which
inspired Windows NT, and it is in large part competition from Windows
NT that has made Linux grow and develop into the rich, powerful,
flexible GUI OS that it is today.

--
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Old 09-16-2012, 10:20 PM
chris
 
Default minimal CD --> startx

On Sun, 2012-09-16 at 17:18 +0100, Liam Proven wrote:
> On 16 September 2012 09:20, chris <chevhq@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sun, 2012-09-16 at 09:22 +0200, Patrick Asselman wrote:
> >> On 2012-09-16 01:53, Oliver Grawert wrote:
> >> > hi,
> >> > On Sat, 15 Sep 2012 18:40:02 +0100
> >> > Liam Proven <lproven@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> And what exactly does one *do* with this, that is the question?
> >> >>
> >> >> It ain't "X-Windows" if there aren't any windows. ;)
> >> >>
> >> > wow, i love that we have this discussion since it reminds me how far
> >> > linux on the desktop has come since people like i started using
> >> > it ...
> >> >
> >> > had you started where i come from then you would have used a desk
> >> > calculator to compute the proper modelines for your CRT by hand
> >> > (always
> >> > being anxious because you know a single wrong number could fry the
> >> > thing into an irreparable boulder)
> >> >
> >> > anyway, back to the topic, after you would have successfully started
> >> > your new X the only thing that would show up was an unmanaged xterm
> >> > window in the top left of your screen after you ran startx ...
> >> >
> >> > and guess what, that didnt change til today ... and you can do a
> >> > lot
> >> > with an unmanaged xterm (compile a window manager and run it for
> >> > example)
> >> >
> >> > its really good to see that only old farts like me seem to remember
> >> > this and that its knowledge thats only good for an anecdote in a ML
> >> > today because our system got so far ...
> >> >
> >> > but in any case: sudo apt-get install xorg && startx
> >> > gets you actually something to work with, there is exactly one window
> >> > and it is unmanaged.
> >> >
> >> > ciao
> >> > oli
> >>
> >> Thank you for making me feel like an old fart :-(
> >> It's not that long ago, is it? Please? Someone? Anyone? Waaaaah!
> >>
> >> But yeah, this sort of cr@p was needed back then.
> >> I still remember the first graphic terminals at university where you
> >> could have a look at the hand-uudecoded-and-merged fractal picture files
> >> you downloaded from the news server. Only to find out later that it had
> >> cost more cpu seconds than you were allowed to use.
> >>
> >> Mind you, i'm not that old that I have worked on ye olde VAX/VMS
> >> machines, hmkay?
> >
> > I have.:-(
>
> Why the sad smiley?
Cause I no longer have access to one.
Can still hit on a Dec 10 though



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