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Old 09-13-2012, 01:33 PM
Liam Proven
 
Default desktop b0rken: was X not working on precise

On 13 September 2012 14:27, Dave Howorth <dhoworth@mrc-lmb.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
> Dave Howorth wrote:
>> After upgrading a machine that was hapily running lucid to precise, the
>> graphics no longer works. I expect it's a pretty simple problem to
>> diagnose and fix but I'm out of touch with the state of the X server and
>> config files and graphics card support etc and google has shown me hints
>> but nothing definitive. It's a fairly old PC.
> [snip]
>> It appears from synaptic that I do not have fglrx or
>> xserver-xorg-video-radeon or xserver-xorg-video-ati or
>> xserver-xorg-video-r128 installed. I don't understand why not,
>> especially given hwinfo appears to indicate it should use the ati
>> meta-driver. Nor do I understand why the grep command returned no
>> output, since I would hope that the Rage 128 is supported by the r128
>> driver. (edit: I do understand now - the only file in that directory is
>> geode.ids and it has just to ids in it. But I don't know why there
>> aren't more files, so it seems like I can't trust that web page)
>
> I got impatient and installed xserver-xorg-video-ati. That has fixed
> things so the X server starts. I've no idea why the upgrade broke that.
>
> Another thing the upgrade has broken is the desktop. I was using lxdm
> and lxde. I now see a different login screen (presumably lightdm?) that
> doesn't appear to have any method to select desktop session type and
> that logs me into something that says "Ubuntu Desktop". I don't know
> what that is (though I have my suspicions) but it definitely isn't lxde
>
> So, grr grr grr, why has the upgrade broken my desktop! And I suppose
> I'll have to start googling for ways to fix that now unless some kind
> soul can point me in the right direction?

Sounds to me like you should be running Lubuntu, not Ubuntu.

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Old 09-13-2012, 01:47 PM
Avi Greenbury
 
Default desktop b0rken: was X not working on precise

Dave Howorth wrote:
> Another thing the upgrade has broken is the desktop. I was using lxdm
> and lxde.

Was this installed by installing the lubuntu-desktop package, or did
you install the components individually?

> I now see a different login screen (presumably lightdm?) that
> doesn't appear to have any method to select desktop session type and
> that logs me into something that says "Ubuntu Desktop". I don't know
> what that is (though I have my suspicions) but it definitely isn't lxde

It's Unity. If, at the login screen, you look to the right of your
username there should be a little gear logo, click on that and you
should get a drop-down offering you a choice of desktop environment.
Your choice here will be preserved as a default.

If you'd like to make lxdm the default dm again, run

dpkg-reconfigure lxdm

and it'll ask you which to use, assuming it's still installed (which
it should be).

> So, grr grr grr, why has the upgrade broken my desktop! And I suppose
> I'll have to start googling for ways to fix that now unless some kind
> soul can point me in the right direction?

Assuming the above doesn't help, what does:

dpkg -l | egrep '(lubuntu|lxde|lxdm)'

give you? Either way, this is undesirable behaviour, it would be good
to file a bug against the updater (and check whether anyone else has
reported similar).

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Old 09-13-2012, 01:49 PM
Dave Howorth
 
Default desktop b0rken: was X not working on precise

Liam Proven wrote:
>> Another thing the upgrade has broken is the desktop. I was using lxdm
>> and lxde. I now see a different login screen (presumably lightdm?) that
>> doesn't appear to have any method to select desktop session type and
>> that logs me into something that says "Ubuntu Desktop". I don't know
>> what that is (though I have my suspicions) but it definitely isn't lxde
>>
>> So, grr grr grr, why has the upgrade broken my desktop! And I suppose
>> I'll have to start googling for ways to fix that now unless some kind
>> soul can point me in the right direction?
>
> Sounds to me like you should be running Lubuntu, not Ubuntu.

Well I was happily running Ubuntu with LXDE. Is that now not permitted
by the thought police?

I found an article that suggested using "sudo dpkg-reconfigure lightdm".
I did that and chose lxdm, but now I've logged out it appears to still
be running lightdm. I guess a reboot is worth a punt but really I would
have expected dpkg-reconfigure to handle reconfiguring packages!

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Old 09-13-2012, 02:04 PM
Liam Proven
 
Default desktop b0rken: was X not working on precise

On 13 September 2012 14:49, Dave Howorth <dhoworth@mrc-lmb.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
> Liam Proven wrote:
>>> Another thing the upgrade has broken is the desktop. I was using lxdm
>>> and lxde. I now see a different login screen (presumably lightdm?) that
>>> doesn't appear to have any method to select desktop session type and
>>> that logs me into something that says "Ubuntu Desktop". I don't know
>>> what that is (though I have my suspicions) but it definitely isn't lxde
>>>
>>> So, grr grr grr, why has the upgrade broken my desktop! And I suppose
>>> I'll have to start googling for ways to fix that now unless some kind
>>> soul can point me in the right direction?
>>
>> Sounds to me like you should be running Lubuntu, not Ubuntu.
>
> Well I was happily running Ubuntu with LXDE. Is that now not permitted
> by the thought police?
>
> I found an article that suggested using "sudo dpkg-reconfigure lightdm".
> I did that and chose lxdm, but now I've logged out it appears to still
> be running lightdm. I guess a reboot is worth a punt but really I would
> have expected dpkg-reconfigure to handle reconfiguring packages!

You installed the Unity-based version, you get Unity.

Did you originally install the vanilla GNOME Ubuntu and manually add
LXDE? Then you were not running LXDE-based Ubuntu but plain Ubuntu and
that is what you got when you upgraded.

Also, lightdm does indeed allow you to change desktop, as Avi has
explained. You will probably find that you also have an upgraded LXDE
available as well.

But if you don't want the GNOME or Unity desktop, then you should not
be running the version of the distro that comes with a GNOME or Unity
desktop, because when you upgrade it, it is still going to be the
version with the GNOME/Unity desktop!

It can't read your mind. If you are running the standard version, then
that is what you are going to get. If you don't want it, don't run it,
run the version that has the desktop you want. This is not rocket
science!


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Old 09-13-2012, 02:05 PM
Avi Greenbury
 
Default desktop b0rken: was X not working on precise

Dave Howorth wrote:
> Liam Proven wrote:
> >> Another thing the upgrade has broken is the desktop. I was using lxdm
> >> and lxde. I now see a different login screen (presumably lightdm?) that
> >> doesn't appear to have any method to select desktop session type and
> >> that logs me into something that says "Ubuntu Desktop". I don't know
> >> what that is (though I have my suspicions) but it definitely isn't lxde
> >>
> >> So, grr grr grr, why has the upgrade broken my desktop! And I suppose
> >> I'll have to start googling for ways to fix that now unless some kind
> >> soul can point me in the right direction?
> >
> > Sounds to me like you should be running Lubuntu, not Ubuntu.
>
> Well I was happily running Ubuntu with LXDE. Is that now not permitted
> by the thought police?

It's permitted but not supported. Part of the point of the
lubuntu-desktop package is that it puts in place all the rest of the
things that's expected to be there if you're running LXDE.

> I found an article that suggested using "sudo dpkg-reconfigure lightdm".
> I did that and chose lxdm, but now I've logged out it appears to still
> be running lightdm. I guess a reboot is worth a punt but really I would
> have expected dpkg-reconfigure to handle reconfiguring packages!

You'll need to stop lightdm and start lxdm. All you've done there is to
change the default. Switch to another TTY (<ctrl><alt><F1>) then log
in and do:

sudo stop lightdm
sudo start lxdm

then you'll be in lxdm again.

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Old 09-13-2012, 02:06 PM
Dave Howorth
 
Default desktop b0rken: was X not working on precise

Avi Greenbury wrote:
> Dave Howorth wrote:
>> Another thing the upgrade has broken is the desktop. I was using lxdm
>> and lxde.
>
> Was this installed by installing the lubuntu-desktop package, or did
> you install the components individually?

IIRC, I just installed lxde. In any event, I don't have any lubuntu
packages installed.

>> I now see a different login screen (presumably lightdm?) that
>> doesn't appear to have any method to select desktop session type and
>> that logs me into something that says "Ubuntu Desktop". I don't know
>> what that is (though I have my suspicions) but it definitely isn't lxde
>
> It's Unity.

I thought it might be ;( I wasn't using it and this is an upgrade not
a fresh install, so I'd rather people didn't interfere with choices I've
already made!

> If, at the login screen, you look to the right of your
> username there should be a little gear logo, click on that and you
> should get a drop-down offering you a choice of desktop environment.
> Your choice here will be preserved as a default.

Ah, OK. It's too late now because I've switched back to lxdm. That's
poor user interface design because I spent a while mousing over the
screen examining all the options on the menu bar, looking for context
menus etc. A drop-down menu should look like a drop-down menu if people
are to find it!

> If you'd like to make lxdm the default dm again, run
>
> dpkg-reconfigure lxdm
>
> and it'll ask you which to use, assuming it's still installed (which
> it should be).

Yes, I did that. It didn't change the display manager after a logout but
it has now I've rebooted. Why couldn't it just restart the display
manager when it got the chance? It shouldn't be necessary to shut down a
whole machine to change a display manager.

> give you? Either way, this is undesirable behaviour, it would be good
> to file a bug against the updater (and check whether anyone else has
> reported similar).

Good idea, thanks, I'll do that.

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Old 09-13-2012, 02:12 PM
Dave Howorth
 
Default desktop b0rken: was X not working on precise

Liam Proven wrote:
> You installed the Unity-based version, you get Unity.

No I didn't, Unity did not exist when I installed that machine!

> Did you originally install the vanilla GNOME Ubuntu and manually add
> LXDE?

Yes.

> Then you were not running LXDE-based Ubuntu but plain Ubuntu and
> that is what you got when you upgraded.

No. I was running Ubuntu plus LXDE and most importantly, it was
configured to use lxdm and LXDE as my session type. The upgrade appears
to have completely ignored that configuration.

> But if you don't want the GNOME or Unity desktop, then you should not
> be running the version of the distro that comes with a GNOME or Unity
> desktop, because when you upgrade it, it is still going to be the
> version with the GNOME/Unity desktop!

You miss the point. This is an existing machine that has been upgraded,
not a new install. I'm quite happy to have the other desktops sitting on
disks, as long as they don't force themselves in my face.

> It can't read your mind. If you are running the standard version, then
> that is what you are going to get. If you don't want it, don't run it,
> run the version that has the desktop you want. This is not rocket
> science!

It can't read my mind, but it can and should read its own configuration
files!!!!!

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Old 09-13-2012, 02:14 PM
Avi Greenbury
 
Default desktop b0rken: was X not working on precise

Liam Proven wrote:
> But if you don't want the GNOME or Unity desktop, then you should not
> be running the version of the distro that comes with a GNOME or Unity
> desktop, because when you upgrade it, it is still going to be the
> version with the GNOME/Unity desktop!

Running the ubuntu desktop shouldn't really affect any of the other
desktops, and if it does that is a problem. Installing from a ubuntu
disc and then installing xubuntu-desktop and lubuntu-desktop wont
break anything, and a dist-upgrade should leave everything working.

The iffy bit is in not adding desktops but adding window managers and
desktop managers individually. These aren't supposed to break either,
but are probably seen as too much of an edge-case to be fixed,
especially since it's just a matter of a change of default. It is
something that's worth filing a bug against, but unless you're also
submitting a patch I'd not hold my breath on it getting fixed for this
upgrade.

> It can't read your mind. If you are running the standard version, then
> that is what you are going to get. If you don't want it, don't run it,
> run the version that has the desktop you want. This is not rocket
> science!

No, but it should be able to read the configuration it was using
before the upgrade. Running several DEs and only generally using one
of them should not be a problem.

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Old 09-13-2012, 02:21 PM
Avi Greenbury
 
Default desktop b0rken: was X not working on precise

Dave Howorth wrote:
> Avi Greenbury wrote:
> > Dave Howorth wrote:
> >> Another thing the upgrade has broken is the desktop. I was using lxdm
> >> and lxde.
> >
> > Was this installed by installing the lubuntu-desktop package, or did
> > you install the components individually?
>
> IIRC, I just installed lxde. In any event, I don't have any lubuntu
> packages installed.

A lubuntu-desktop install will be more robust than just lxde, but
it'll also pull more in. The *-desktop packages are supposed to
provide an entire desktop so there'll be a mail client and web browser
and suchlike, which might or might not be different to what's already
there. There's no reason you *shouldn't* have a system as you do, but
the more 'normal' a setup is the more testing and fixing it gets

> I thought it might be ;( I wasn't using it and this is an upgrade not
> a fresh install, so I'd rather people didn't interfere with choices I've
> already made!

Try to think of this as incompetence rather than malice. The upgrade
simply didn't notice your preference and so assumed the default, I'd
imagine. I've upgraded a few neither-Gnome-nor-Unity machines with no
effects like this, but they were all using a *-desktop package for the
alternatives.

> Ah, OK. It's too late now because I've switched back to lxdm. That's
> poor user interface design because I spent a while mousing over the
> screen examining all the options on the menu bar, looking for context
> menus etc. A drop-down menu should look like a drop-down menu if people
> are to find it!

Yeah, I agree. I think part of the plan was to avoid making it look
like there were too many things that had to be chosen before the user
could log in. It's also one of those things that becomes obvious once
you know it...

> Yes, I did that. It didn't change the display manager after a logout but
> it has now I've rebooted. Why couldn't it just restart the display
> manager when it got the chance? It shouldn't be necessary to shut down a
> whole machine to change a display manager.

It's not. It's necessary to restart the display manager to do it
(well, to stop the current one and start the new default one), and
that's something that, personally, I'd very much rather not happen
without my explicit say-so. The display manager doesn't restart on
logout because normally there's no need to, and sometimes (like when
someone else is logged in) there's a good reason to not.

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Old 09-13-2012, 02:26 PM
Oliver Grawert
 
Default desktop b0rken: was X not working on precise

hi,
On Thu, 13 Sep 2012 15:12:51 +0100
Dave Howorth <dhoworth@mrc-lmb.cam.ac.uk> wrote:

> No. I was running Ubuntu plus LXDE and most importantly, it was
> configured to use lxdm and LXDE as my session type. The upgrade
> appears to have completely ignored that configuration.
>
how exactly did you configure that ? theoretically lxdm should have
created a ~/.dmrc file that contains your locale and session info when
you selected your session in lxdm for th first time. this file is a
standard among all linux DMs and shold be respected by all of them
(read: even the switch to lightdm should have logged you into lxde if
that file was existing), i think there are two bugs here:

1. lxdm not properly creating a ~/.dmrc file when you selected lxde as
your session

2. lightdm not respecting the debconf default (lxdm) for the display
manager (though that wouldnt have been harmful if ~/,dmrc existed) ...

you should file both of them ...

ciao
oli
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