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Old 08-19-2012, 10:02 AM
Gene Heskett
 
Default gnome-applet-volume-control is a huge usability regression

Greetings all;

Ubuntu-10.04.4 LTS

Some so-called update in the last 2 weeks has moved the system volume
control from my keyboard, to a teeny little icon in the notifier applet.

Generally when I need to get to it because the fscking commercial in front
of a news story is 40 db louder than the previous watched stories audio
track was, trying not to wake the missus sleeping 4 rooms away, but because
the mouse pointer has been blanked, you can't find the SOB without issuing
a click someplace to unblank it just so you can move the pointer to this
microscopic icon in the upper right corner of the screen, then roll the
wheel to adjust the volume. That works, but the extra click needed to
unblank the mouse (why does it not unblank just by moving it?) is
occasionally miss interpreted causing unwanted side effects, and it takes
several seconds of waving the ^%$ mouse around to find it in the screen
clutter and do it.

My keyboard has volume up/down/mute functions buttons which DID work very
well and instantly, and could be used in a second or less for this until
some "genius" thought it could be better done with an icon. Quotes
intended to be satire of course because left to my natural instincts,
genius isn't the proper descriptive word.

So, how the heck do I restore the keyboards volume/mute controls and get
rid of or disable this "gnome-applet-volume-control" thing that got itself
installed as an update or something?

Thank you.

Cheers, Gene
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene> is up!
An aphorism is never exactly true; it is either a half-truth or
one-and-a-half truths.
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Old 08-19-2012, 10:29 AM
Colin Law
 
Default gnome-applet-volume-control is a huge usability regression

On 19 August 2012 11:02, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:
> Greetings all;
>
> Ubuntu-10.04.4 LTS
>
> Some so-called update in the last 2 weeks has moved the system volume
> control from my keyboard, to a teeny little icon in the notifier applet.
>
> Generally when I need to get to it because the fscking commercial in front
> of a news story is 40 db louder than the previous watched stories audio
> track was, trying not to wake the missus sleeping 4 rooms away, but because
> the mouse pointer has been blanked, you can't find the SOB without issuing
> a click someplace to unblank it just so you can move the pointer to this
> microscopic icon in the upper right corner of the screen, then roll the
> wheel to adjust the volume. That works, but the extra click needed to
> unblank the mouse (why does it not unblank just by moving it?) is
> occasionally miss interpreted causing unwanted side effects, and it takes
> several seconds of waving the ^%$ mouse around to find it in the screen
> clutter and do it.
>
> My keyboard has volume up/down/mute functions buttons which DID work very
> well and instantly, and could be used in a second or less for this until
> some "genius" thought it could be better done with an icon. Quotes
> intended to be satire of course because left to my natural instincts,
> genius isn't the proper descriptive word.

I think you may be jumping to the false assumption that the disabling
of the keyboard function keys has been done on purpose. I think it
more likely to be accidental. Rather than ranting about supposed
intentional changes apparently intended to annoy you personally I
think a better approach would be to ask for help in analysing why the
function keys do not work. In order to help with this the first
information required is full details of the make and model of the
machine. I presume you have already searched launchpad in case it has
already been reported.

Have you touched the BIOS settings recently?

Have you tried a re-boot?

Colin

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Old 08-19-2012, 11:00 AM
Gene Heskett
 
Default gnome-applet-volume-control is a huge usability regression

On Sunday 19 August 2012 06:39:59 Colin Law did opine:

> On 19 August 2012 11:02, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:
> > Greetings all;
> >
> > Ubuntu-10.04.4 LTS
> >
> > Some so-called update in the last 2 weeks has moved the system volume
> > control from my keyboard, to a teeny little icon in the notifier
> > applet.
> >
> > Generally when I need to get to it because the fscking commercial in
> > front of a news story is 40 db louder than the previous watched
> > stories audio track was, trying not to wake the missus sleeping 4
> > rooms away, but because the mouse pointer has been blanked, you can't
> > find the SOB without issuing a click someplace to unblank it just so
> > you can move the pointer to this microscopic icon in the upper right
> > corner of the screen, then roll the wheel to adjust the volume. That
> > works, but the extra click needed to unblank the mouse (why does it
> > not unblank just by moving it?) is occasionally miss interpreted
> > causing unwanted side effects, and it takes several seconds of waving
> > the ^%$ mouse around to find it in the screen clutter and do it.
> >
> > My keyboard has volume up/down/mute functions buttons which DID work
> > very well and instantly, and could be used in a second or less for
> > this until some "genius" thought it could be better done with an
> > icon. Quotes intended to be satire of course because left to my
> > natural instincts, genius isn't the proper descriptive word.
>
> I think you may be jumping to the false assumption that the disabling
> of the keyboard function keys has been done on purpose. I think it
> more likely to be accidental. Rather than ranting about supposed
> intentional changes apparently intended to annoy you personally

I'd bet a bottle of your favorite suds I am not the only one disappointed
by such a usability regression.

> I
> think a better approach would be to ask for help in analysing why the
> function keys do not work. In order to help with this the first
> information required is full details of the make and model of the
> machine. I presume you have already searched launchpad in case it has
> already been reported.

No, I wanted to make sure I pointed out (but didn't really) that this
little icon showed up at the last reboot about 2 weeks ago, it wasn't there
before that I can recall, and my keyboard controls worked. That is a logic
connection even I can make. The obvious conclusion is that this icon has
intercepted those 3 keyboard events. Launchpad URL?

> Have you touched the BIOS settings recently?

Not in over a year. Its an AMD 4 core phenom 9550, on an ASUS M2N-SLI
Deluxe board, 4GB of ram, sound is an audigy2 value, aka real 24 bit
hardware. Motherboard sound is disabled, has been for years.

> Have you tried a re-boot?

2 weeks ago. Rebooting here is about a 10 to 20 minute project due to the
custom scripts that handle my email needing to be hand started in sequence.
I could automate that if I could figure out where to put a script that
would be equal to rc.local, but which was executed once X was up and
running.

This isn't supposed to be windows where multiple daily reboots need to be
done is it? ;-)

> Colin

Thanks Colin.

Cheers, Gene
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene> is up!
There's enough money here to buy 5000 cans of Noodle-Roni!

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Old 08-19-2012, 11:23 AM
Colin Law
 
Default gnome-applet-volume-control is a huge usability regression

On 19 August 2012 12:00, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:
> On Sunday 19 August 2012 06:39:59 Colin Law did opine:
>
>> On 19 August 2012 11:02, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:
>> > Greetings all;
>> >
>> > Ubuntu-10.04.4 LTS
>> >
>> > Some so-called update in the last 2 weeks has moved the system volume
>> > control from my keyboard, to a teeny little icon in the notifier
>> > applet.
>> >
>> > Generally when I need to get to it because the fscking commercial in
>> > front of a news story is 40 db louder than the previous watched
>> > stories audio track was, trying not to wake the missus sleeping 4
>> > rooms away, but because the mouse pointer has been blanked, you can't
>> > find the SOB without issuing a click someplace to unblank it just so
>> > you can move the pointer to this microscopic icon in the upper right
>> > corner of the screen, then roll the wheel to adjust the volume. That
>> > works, but the extra click needed to unblank the mouse (why does it
>> > not unblank just by moving it?)

Is it a wireless mouse? I suspect that is to do with the mouse itself
and nothing to do with ubuntu. It is switching the light off in order
to save power. Since the light is off it cannot tell when you move it
(obviously), hence the need to click.

>> > is occasionally miss interpreted
>> > causing unwanted side effects, and it takes several seconds of waving
>> > the ^%$ mouse around to find it in the screen clutter and do it.
>> >
>> > My keyboard has volume up/down/mute functions buttons which DID work
>> > very well and instantly, and could be used in a second or less for
>> > this until some "genius" thought it could be better done with an
>> > icon. Quotes intended to be satire of course because left to my
>> > natural instincts, genius isn't the proper descriptive word.
>>
>> I think you may be jumping to the false assumption that the disabling
>> of the keyboard function keys has been done on purpose. I think it
>> more likely to be accidental. Rather than ranting about supposed
>> intentional changes apparently intended to annoy you personally
>
> I'd bet a bottle of your favorite suds I am not the only one disappointed
> by such a usability regression.

I am sure you are not the only one disappointed, assuming that others
have also got the problem. That does not mean the disabling of the
keyboard keys is intentional.

I can't comment on whether the volume applet in the panel has changed
as I don't use 10.04. Anyone else help on this issue?

>
>> I
>> think a better approach would be to ask for help in analysing why the
>> function keys do not work. In order to help with this the first
>> information required is full details of the make and model of the
>> machine. I presume you have already searched launchpad in case it has
>> already been reported.
>
> No, I wanted to make sure I pointed out (but didn't really) that this
> little icon showed up at the last reboot about 2 weeks ago, it wasn't there
> before that I can recall, and my keyboard controls worked. That is a logic
> connection even I can make. The obvious conclusion is that this icon has
> intercepted those 3 keyboard events.

No, I don't think that is obvious at all. Possible but not obvious.
If it were intercepting them then the fact that it is not acting on
them is still a bug.

> Launchpad URL?

I don't understand, are you asking me to look up the url of launchpad for you?
I have had a quick look and can't see anything obvious.

>
>> Have you touched the BIOS settings recently?
>
> Not in over a year.

Worth asking the question.

> Its an AMD 4 core phenom 9550, on an ASUS M2N-SLI
> Deluxe board, 4GB of ram, sound is an audigy2 value, aka real 24 bit
> hardware. Motherboard sound is disabled, has been for years.
>
>> Have you tried a re-boot?
>
> 2 weeks ago. Rebooting here is about a 10 to 20 minute project due to the
> custom scripts that handle my email needing to be hand started in sequence.
> I could automate that if I could figure out where to put a script that
> would be equal to rc.local, but which was executed once X was up and
> running.

Was that re-boot after you noticed that the volume keys were not
working? If not then I think you have to do a re-boot before doing
anything else.
You could still put it in a single script and run that manually once X
is up, Or call it from Startup Applications and then it will run
after logon if that is what you mean.

>
> This isn't supposed to be windows where multiple daily reboots need to be
> done is it? ;-)

No.

Colin

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Old 08-19-2012, 02:38 PM
"Joep L. Blom"
 
Default gnome-applet-volume-control is a huge usability regression

On 19-08-12 13:00, Gene Heskett wrote:

On Sunday 19 August 2012 06:39:59 Colin Law did opine:


On 19 August 2012 11:02, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:

Greetings all;

Ubuntu-10.04.4 LTS

Some so-called update in the last 2 weeks has moved the system volume
control from my keyboard, to a teeny little icon in the notifier
applet.
Gene,I have ubuntu 1o.04 also on a phenom II system (self-build). After
a lot of problems with gnome - and especially the unity disaster - I
installed xfce as GUI which is fully updated and the problems you
describe are, in my opinion, typically gnome-related as the
Ubuntu-developers are apparently not so familiar any more with gnome-II.
On another system (my wife's) I have xubuntu 12.04 installed, also fully
updated and there is also no problem with sound. However, my Logitec
speaker-system conveniently has a volume knob and even a switch to kill
sound instantly.

Joep



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Old 08-19-2012, 04:00 PM
Gene Heskett
 
Default gnome-applet-volume-control is a huge usability regression

On Sunday 19 August 2012 11:36:14 Colin Law did opine:

> On 19 August 2012 12:00, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:
> > On Sunday 19 August 2012 06:39:59 Colin Law did opine:
> >> On 19 August 2012 11:02, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:
> >> > Greetings all;
> >> >
> >> > Ubuntu-10.04.4 LTS
> >> >
> >> > Some so-called update in the last 2 weeks has moved the system
> >> > volume control from my keyboard, to a teeny little icon in the
> >> > notifier applet.
> >> >
> >> > Generally when I need to get to it because the fscking commercial
> >> > in front of a news story is 40 db louder than the previous watched
> >> > stories audio track was, trying not to wake the missus sleeping 4
> >> > rooms away, but because the mouse pointer has been blanked, you
> >> > can't find the SOB without issuing a click someplace to unblank it
> >> > just so you can move the pointer to this microscopic icon in the
> >> > upper right corner of the screen, then roll the wheel to adjust
> >> > the volume. That works, but the extra click needed to unblank the
> >> > mouse (why does it not unblank just by moving it?)
>
> Is it a wireless mouse? I suspect that is to do with the mouse itself
> and nothing to do with ubuntu. It is switching the light off in order
> to save power. Since the light is off it cannot tell when you move it
> (obviously), hence the need to click.
>
Yes, a logitek, and you are likely correct.

> >> > is occasionally miss interpreted
> >> > causing unwanted side effects, and it takes several seconds of
> >> > waving the ^%$ mouse around to find it in the screen clutter and
> >> > do it.
> >> >
> >> > My keyboard has volume up/down/mute functions buttons which DID
> >> > work very well and instantly, and could be used in a second or
> >> > less for this until some "genius" thought it could be better done
> >> > with an icon. Quotes intended to be satire of course because left
> >> > to my natural instincts, genius isn't the proper descriptive word.
> >>
> >> I think you may be jumping to the false assumption that the disabling
> >> of the keyboard function keys has been done on purpose. I think it
> >> more likely to be accidental. Rather than ranting about supposed
> >> intentional changes apparently intended to annoy you personally
> >
> > I'd bet a bottle of your favorite suds I am not the only one
> > disappointed by such a usability regression.
>
> I am sure you are not the only one disappointed, assuming that others
> have also got the problem. That does not mean the disabling of the
> keyboard keys is intentional.
>
> I can't comment on whether the volume applet in the panel has changed
> as I don't use 10.04. Anyone else help on this issue?
>
> >> I
> >> think a better approach would be to ask for help in analysing why the
> >> function keys do not work. In order to help with this the first
> >> information required is full details of the make and model of the
> >> machine. I presume you have already searched launchpad in case it
> >> has already been reported.
> >
> > No, I wanted to make sure I pointed out (but didn't really) that this
> > little icon showed up at the last reboot about 2 weeks ago, it wasn't
> > there before that I can recall, and my keyboard controls worked.
> > That is a logic connection even I can make. The obvious conclusion
> > is that this icon has intercepted those 3 keyboard events.
>
> No, I don't think that is obvious at all. Possible but not obvious.
> If it were intercepting them then the fact that it is not acting on
> them is still a bug.
>
> > Launchpad URL?
>
> I don't understand, are you asking me to look up the url of launchpad
> for you? I have had a quick look and can't see anything obvious.
>
> >> Have you touched the BIOS settings recently?
> >
> > Not in over a year.
>
> Worth asking the question.
>
> > Its an AMD 4 core phenom 9550, on an ASUS M2N-SLI
> >
> > Deluxe board, 4GB of ram, sound is an audigy2 value, aka real 24 bit
> > hardware. Motherboard sound is disabled, has been for years.
> >
> >> Have you tried a re-boot?
> >
> > 2 weeks ago. Rebooting here is about a 10 to 20 minute project due to
> > the custom scripts that handle my email needing to be hand started in
> > sequence. I could automate that if I could figure out where to put a
> > script that would be equal to rc.local, but which was executed once X
> > was up and running.
>
> Was that re-boot after you noticed that the volume keys were not
> working? If not then I think you have to do a re-boot before doing
> anything else.

No, they were working up to the reboot, which was caused by an extra copy
of kmail that was burning 100% of a core, making kmail extremely sluggish,
and was not killable by htop running as root. I have had that occur at 2
to 3 week intervals since I installed this several months ago, and is
generally the only reason I do reboot, which gets about halfway through the
shutdown script, hits what I presume as it doesn't name it, an unkillable
process, so the front panel reset button is used from there.

> You could still put it in a single script and run that manually once X
> is up, Or call it from Startup Applications and then it will run
> after logon if that is what you mean.

Humm, I looked at that, but its not abundantly clear how to do that. Some
guidance or a tut URL would be nice.

I treat the suckage of email from the 2 accounts I use, as being
independent of kmail since fetchmail & friends don't need a gui. That all
starts before X does.

Then it is synchronized by watching the spool dir, and sending kmail a
message over dbus to go get the local mail when a file close operation has
been performed on a file in the spool dir. Incoming mail is at that point
completely hands off.

But because dbus gets a tummy ache if the target of the message isn't
registered, so before I send the message, I make sure each time that pidof
kmail returns a valid value. That unforch, goes straight into the toilet
when pidof returns more than one 5 digit proc ID. At that point, I might
as well reboot because the system is already failing.

> > This isn't supposed to be windows where multiple daily reboots need to
> > be done is it? ;-)
>
> No.
>
I had to ask. ;-)

> Colin


Cheers Colin, Gene
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene> is up!
<dark> Turns out that grep returns error code 1 when there are no matches.
I KNEW that. Why did it take me half an hour?
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Old 08-19-2012, 05:12 PM
Colin Law
 
Default gnome-applet-volume-control is a huge usability regression

On 19 August 2012 17:00, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:
> On Sunday 19 August 2012 11:36:14 Colin Law did opine:
>
>> On 19 August 2012 12:00, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:
>> > On Sunday 19 August 2012 06:39:59 Colin Law did opine:
>> >> On 19 August 2012 11:02, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:
>> >> > Greetings all;
>> >> >
>> >> > Ubuntu-10.04.4 LTS
>> >> >
>> >> > Some so-called update in the last 2 weeks has moved the system
>> >> > volume control from my keyboard, to a teeny little icon in the
>> >> > notifier applet.
>> [snip]
>>
>> Was that re-boot after you noticed that the volume keys were not
>> working? If not then I think you have to do a re-boot before doing
>> anything else.
>
> No, they were working up to the reboot

So you have not rebooted since the problem started. It probably won't
help, but you have to do it, sorry.

> [snip]

>> You could still put it in a single script and run that manually once X
>> is up, Or call it from Startup Applications and then it will run
>> after logon if that is what you mean.
>
> Humm, I looked at that, but its not abundantly clear how to do that. Some
> guidance or a tut URL would be nice.

Which bit don't you know how to do? You said you had a set of scripts
that had to be hand started in sequence, is the problem that you don't
know how to make a single script to call all those, or you don't know
how to make it run on login?

Colin

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Old 08-19-2012, 05:27 PM
Gene Heskett
 
Default gnome-applet-volume-control is a huge usability regression

On Sunday 19 August 2012 13:12:38 Colin Law did opine:
[...]
> You could still put it in a single script and run that manually once X
> is up, Or call it from Startup Applications and then it will run
> after logon if that is what you mean.

> Colin

Humm, one question then. In startup apps, how does one go about telling it
to put kmail on workspace 10? I have added just a bare kmail and the
mailwatcher script so far, but have not rebooted.

Which brings up another reboot problem:

Somehow, I have an alternate action per reboot, which makes me reboot
twice, because every other reboot treats me like a brand new user, with
only the default 4 workspaces & lots of other missing stuff. So if I see
the pager come up with only 4 windows, I have to reboot a 2nd time to
become me again. There are two errors reported during the startup, every
time, one of which is a huge time killer of variable duration because I
can't click on the ok to clear the advisory window UNTIL the mouse is
started (keyboard is also dead at this point), which may take 15 seconds,
and has taken several minutes. This error requester is then replaced with
another, which also acts like a blocker, but given enough time, x will
start and give me a login screen anyway. I could take pix, but the list
won't take pix.

Have I the only 10-04.4 LTS system on the planet that does this?

Cheers, Gene
--
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soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene> is up!
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Old 08-19-2012, 05:33 PM
Liam Proven
 
Default gnome-applet-volume-control is a huge usability regression

On 19 August 2012 18:27, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:
>
> Have I the only 10-04.4 LTS system on the planet that does this?

Yes, I suspect you are.

Is this, once again, your machine running the ancient kernel with the
realtime patch?

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Old 08-19-2012, 06:07 PM
Gene Heskett
 
Default gnome-applet-volume-control is a huge usability regression

On Sunday 19 August 2012 14:00:26 Liam Proven did opine:

> On 19 August 2012 18:27, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:
> > Have I the only 10-04.4 LTS system on the planet that does this?
>
> Yes, I suspect you are.
>
> Is this, once again, your machine running the ancient kernel with the
> realtime patch?

Yes, 2.6.32-122-rtai

I should add that I have this same install on 2 of the D525MW motherboards,
and have not observed this alternate user on reboot thing behaviour on
them, although they don't run kmail either.

I also have it installed on my laptop, an elderly HP with a single core 64
bit turion brain, which I occasionally use on the road for email &
browsing, but its been 2-3 months since it was booted & likely numerous
updates behind.

Cheers, Gene
--
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soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene> is up!
None love the bearer of bad news.
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