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Old 08-19-2012, 06:18 PM
Liam Proven
 
Default gnome-applet-volume-control is a huge usability regression

On 19 August 2012 19:07, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:
> On Sunday 19 August 2012 14:00:26 Liam Proven did opine:
>
>> On 19 August 2012 18:27, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:
>> > Have I the only 10-04.4 LTS system on the planet that does this?
>>
>> Yes, I suspect you are.
>>
>> Is this, once again, your machine running the ancient kernel with the
>> realtime patch?
>
> Yes, 2.6.32-122-rtai
>
> I should add that I have this same install on 2 of the D525MW motherboards,
> and have not observed this alternate user on reboot thing behaviour on
> them, although they don't run kmail either.
>
> I also have it installed on my laptop, an elderly HP with a single core 64
> bit turion brain, which I occasionally use on the road for email &
> browsing, but its been 2-3 months since it was booted & likely numerous
> updates behind.

I've said this before, but my suggestion is:

By all means, keep the RT kernel on your milling-machine-control box,
but on the others, that don't need to be R/T hard, then please,
please, upgrade them to the linux-generic-lts-backport-oneiric kernel
and then do an apt-get dist-upgrade on them. I'm sure of your problems
will just go away if you do.

You'll still be running the same OS on all the machines.


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Old 08-19-2012, 08:19 PM
Ric Moore
 
Default gnome-applet-volume-control is a huge usability regression

On 08/19/2012 10:38 AM, Joep L. Blom wrote:

On 19-08-12 13:00, Gene Heskett wrote:

On Sunday 19 August 2012 06:39:59 Colin Law did opine:


On 19 August 2012 11:02, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:

Greetings all;

Ubuntu-10.04.4 LTS

Some so-called update in the last 2 weeks has moved the system volume
control from my keyboard, to a teeny little icon in the notifier
applet.

Gene,I have ubuntu 1o.04 also on a phenom II system (self-build). After
a lot of problems with gnome - and especially the unity disaster - I
installed xfce as GUI which is fully updated and the problems you
describe are, in my opinion, typically gnome-related as the
Ubuntu-developers are apparently not so familiar any more with gnome-II.
On another system (my wife's) I have xubuntu 12.04 installed, also fully
updated and there is also no problem with sound. However, my Logitec
speaker-system conveniently has a volume knob and even a switch to kill
sound instantly.


I installed pavucontrol on my taskbar, so I can click it and instantly
switch devices and/or their settings. Ric




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"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
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Old 08-19-2012, 11:27 PM
Gene Heskett
 
Default gnome-applet-volume-control is a huge usability regression

On Sunday 19 August 2012 19:10:54 Liam Proven did opine:

> On 19 August 2012 19:07, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:
> > On Sunday 19 August 2012 14:00:26 Liam Proven did opine:
> >> On 19 August 2012 18:27, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:
> >> > Have I the only 10-04.4 LTS system on the planet that does this?
> >>
> >> Yes, I suspect you are.
> >>
> >> Is this, once again, your machine running the ancient kernel with the
> >> realtime patch?
> >
> > Yes, 2.6.32-122-rtai
> >
> > I should add that I have this same install on 2 of the D525MW
> > motherboards, and have not observed this alternate user on reboot
> > thing behaviour on them, although they don't run kmail either.
> >
> > I also have it installed on my laptop, an elderly HP with a single
> > core 64 bit turion brain, which I occasionally use on the road for
> > email & browsing, but its been 2-3 months since it was booted &
> > likely numerous updates behind.
>
> I've said this before, but my suggestion is:
>
> By all means, keep the RT kernel on your milling-machine-control box,
> but on the others, that don't need to be R/T hard, then please,
> please, upgrade them to the linux-generic-lts-backport-oneiric kernel
> and then do an apt-get dist-upgrade on them. I'm sure of your problems
> will just go away if you do.
>
> You'll still be running the same OS on all the machines.

Except that I won't be able to test gcode, and machine configurations on a
real linuxcnc, very useful before I export a feature or gcode to the
machines that will carve something besides virtual air.

For those features that do not require feedback from the machine, it allows
me to sit in a comfy office rocker and concentrate on the code, instead of
my aching back or dry hip sockets.

You see, LinuxCNC, when driving a stepper motor driven machine, only has
one view of the machine, the commands it told it to are assumed to have
been performed, there is no feedback to verify that the motor actually
moved. So the machine itself is only needed if your actually want to carve
steel, meaning I can exercise gcode for preview purposes all I want, in sit
down comfort. That is worth at least a case of bottled beer to me. That,
FWIW, would last me for about 2 weeks.

Thanks, Liam.

Cheers, Gene
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene> is up!
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unprotected.
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Old 08-19-2012, 11:42 PM
Liam Proven
 
Default gnome-applet-volume-control is a huge usability regression

On 20 August 2012 00:27, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:
> On Sunday 19 August 2012 19:10:54 Liam Proven did opine:
>
>> On 19 August 2012 19:07, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:
>> > On Sunday 19 August 2012 14:00:26 Liam Proven did opine:
>> >> On 19 August 2012 18:27, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:
>> >> > Have I the only 10-04.4 LTS system on the planet that does this?
>> >>
>> >> Yes, I suspect you are.
>> >>
>> >> Is this, once again, your machine running the ancient kernel with the
>> >> realtime patch?
>> >
>> > Yes, 2.6.32-122-rtai
>> >
>> > I should add that I have this same install on 2 of the D525MW
>> > motherboards, and have not observed this alternate user on reboot
>> > thing behaviour on them, although they don't run kmail either.
>> >
>> > I also have it installed on my laptop, an elderly HP with a single
>> > core 64 bit turion brain, which I occasionally use on the road for
>> > email & browsing, but its been 2-3 months since it was booted &
>> > likely numerous updates behind.
>>
>> I've said this before, but my suggestion is:
>>
>> By all means, keep the RT kernel on your milling-machine-control box,
>> but on the others, that don't need to be R/T hard, then please,
>> please, upgrade them to the linux-generic-lts-backport-oneiric kernel
>> and then do an apt-get dist-upgrade on them. I'm sure of your problems
>> will just go away if you do.
>>
>> You'll still be running the same OS on all the machines.
>
> Except that I won't be able to test gcode, and machine configurations on a
> real linuxcnc, very useful before I export a feature or gcode to the
> machines that will carve something besides virtual air.
>
> For those features that do not require feedback from the machine, it allows
> me to sit in a comfy office rocker and concentrate on the code, instead of
> my aching back or dry hip sockets.
>
> You see, LinuxCNC, when driving a stepper motor driven machine, only has
> one view of the machine, the commands it told it to are assumed to have
> been performed, there is no feedback to verify that the motor actually
> moved. So the machine itself is only needed if your actually want to carve
> steel, meaning I can exercise gcode for preview purposes all I want, in sit
> down comfort. That is worth at least a case of bottled beer to me. That,
> FWIW, would last me for about 2 weeks.

Fine. Then dual-boot or run a VM. VirtualBox is free.

But to run a kernel like that for everyday production use is just
/asking/ for trouble - and you are getting trouble.

So stop messing about!

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Old 08-20-2012, 01:22 AM
Gene Heskett
 
Default gnome-applet-volume-control is a huge usability regression

On Sunday 19 August 2012 21:20:25 Liam Proven did opine:

> On 20 August 2012 00:27, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:
> > On Sunday 19 August 2012 19:10:54 Liam Proven did opine:
> >> On 19 August 2012 19:07, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:
> >> > On Sunday 19 August 2012 14:00:26 Liam Proven did opine:
> >> >> On 19 August 2012 18:27, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:
> >> >> > Have I the only 10-04.4 LTS system on the planet that does this?
> >> >>
> >> >> Yes, I suspect you are.
> >> >>
> >> >> Is this, once again, your machine running the ancient kernel with
> >> >> the realtime patch?
> >> >
> >> > Yes, 2.6.32-122-rtai
> >> >
> >> > I should add that I have this same install on 2 of the D525MW
> >> > motherboards, and have not observed this alternate user on reboot
> >> > thing behaviour on them, although they don't run kmail either.
> >> >
> >> > I also have it installed on my laptop, an elderly HP with a single
> >> > core 64 bit turion brain, which I occasionally use on the road for
> >> > email & browsing, but its been 2-3 months since it was booted &
> >> > likely numerous updates behind.
> >>
> >> I've said this before, but my suggestion is:
> >>
> >> By all means, keep the RT kernel on your milling-machine-control box,
> >> but on the others, that don't need to be R/T hard, then please,
> >> please, upgrade them to the linux-generic-lts-backport-oneiric kernel
> >> and then do an apt-get dist-upgrade on them. I'm sure of your
> >> problems will just go away if you do.
> >>
> >> You'll still be running the same OS on all the machines.
> >
> > Except that I won't be able to test gcode, and machine configurations
> > on a real linuxcnc, very useful before I export a feature or gcode to
> > the machines that will carve something besides virtual air.
> >
> > For those features that do not require feedback from the machine, it
> > allows me to sit in a comfy office rocker and concentrate on the
> > code, instead of my aching back or dry hip sockets.
> >
> > You see, LinuxCNC, when driving a stepper motor driven machine, only
> > has one view of the machine, the commands it told it to are assumed
> > to have been performed, there is no feedback to verify that the motor
> > actually moved. So the machine itself is only needed if your
> > actually want to carve steel, meaning I can exercise gcode for
> > preview purposes all I want, in sit down comfort. That is worth at
> > least a case of bottled beer to me. That, FWIW, would last me for
> > about 2 weeks.
>
> Fine. Then dual-boot or run a VM. VirtualBox is free.
>
> But to run a kernel like that for everyday production use is just
> /asking/ for trouble - and you are getting trouble.
>
> So stop messing about!

Now I am really puzzled. About an hour ago, and without a reboot, the
keyboard buttons started working again! Anybody got a good recipe for
snilmerg spray?

Cheers, Gene
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene> is up!
Do not use if foil seal is broken.

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Old 08-21-2012, 07:35 AM
Patrick Asselman
 
Default gnome-applet-volume-control is a huge usability regression

On 2012-08-19 13:00, Gene Heskett wrote:

Rebooting here is about a 10 to 20 minute project due to the
custom scripts that handle my email needing to be hand started in
sequence.
I could automate that if I could figure out where to put a script
that

would be equal to rc.local, but which was executed once X was up and
running.



That shouldn't be too hard.

(Someone correct me if i'm wrong, my knowledge is old and non-Ubuntu,
but i don't see why this would have changed.)
All scripts in /etc/rc.5/ will not be run until runlevel 5 is reached,
which is typically the "graphical" run level.
The numbering in that folder determines the order in which the scripts
are run, so typically your scripts would be numbered 999 or something
like that, so that they are run last. Take a peek at some of the other
scripts to see how they are built up.


Best regards,
Patrick Asselman


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Old 08-21-2012, 08:18 AM
Nils Kassube
 
Default gnome-applet-volume-control is a huge usability regression

Patrick Asselman wrote:
> On 2012-08-19 13:00, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Rebooting here is about a 10 to 20 minute project due to the
> > custom scripts that handle my email needing to be hand started in
> > sequence.
> > I could automate that if I could figure out where to put a script
> > that
> > would be equal to rc.local, but which was executed once X was up
> > and running.
>
> That shouldn't be too hard.
>
> (Someone correct me if i'm wrong, my knowledge is old and non-Ubuntu,
> but i don't see why this would have changed.)
> All scripts in /etc/rc.5/ will not be run until runlevel 5 is
> reached, which is typically the "graphical" run level.

Forget about /etc/rc.5/ (or rather /etc/rc5.d/) because Ubuntu doesn't
use runlevel 5 unless you have a non-standard system. We have runlevel 2
as standard runlevel. Furthermore Ubuntu uses upstart for many jobs at
startup and those have their configuration in /etc/init/. I'm not so
sure where Gene should put the script though - maybe it should be
started from the display manager? Or perhaps from the autostart folder
of Gnome? OTOH, why not use rc.local? Wouldn't that be started after X
is running?


Nils

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Old 08-21-2012, 10:45 AM
Gene Heskett
 
Default gnome-applet-volume-control is a huge usability regression

On Tuesday 21 August 2012 06:15:12 Nils Kassube did opine:

> Patrick Asselman wrote:
> > On 2012-08-19 13:00, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > Rebooting here is about a 10 to 20 minute project due to the
> > > custom scripts that handle my email needing to be hand started in
> > > sequence.
> > > I could automate that if I could figure out where to put a script
> > > that
> > > would be equal to rc.local, but which was executed once X was up
> > > and running.
> >
> > That shouldn't be too hard.
> >
> > (Someone correct me if i'm wrong, my knowledge is old and non-Ubuntu,
> > but i don't see why this would have changed.)
> > All scripts in /etc/rc.5/ will not be run until runlevel 5 is
> > reached, which is typically the "graphical" run level.
>
> Forget about /etc/rc.5/ (or rather /etc/rc5.d/) because Ubuntu doesn't
> use runlevel 5 unless you have a non-standard system. We have runlevel 2
> as standard runlevel. Furthermore Ubuntu uses upstart for many jobs at
> startup and those have their configuration in /etc/init/. I'm not so
> sure where Gene should put the script though - maybe it should be
> started from the display manager? Or perhaps from the autostart folder
> of Gnome? OTOH, why not use rc.local? Wouldn't that be started after X
> is running?
>
>
> Nils

Its my understanding that rc.local is executed as an S99 function in
/etc/rc.whatever, and the display manager isn't started until all that
stuff has run. And I have attempted in times past to put something that
needs X in rc.local, and its always been a 100% failure, no display.
I have added a couple things to the autostart menu, but haven't rebooted to
try them yet.

I asked how to start a program on a specific workspace but no one has
volunteered any info on that. My googling for help on that subject only
finds very old (2006 & older) messages, which are likely obsolete by now.

Additionally;

I also have some errors during the reboot that make rebooting a hassle.

1. It always reports 2 errors, one long before enough X is running to have
either a mouse or keyboard, so I am delayed in the X startup, sometimes for
1 minute or more before the big "X" X cursor shows up, at which point I can
click thru the first error, but that one is immediately replaced by
another, which will be lost when X brings up the high res screen and
finally offers me a login screen. Next time I reboot, I will take pix, if
launchpad will allow me to post them.

At that point, I log in as me, but when gdm has finished, I have the
default environment the system would give a new user.

So I must reboot yet again, going thru all the error bs again, and the
second time I login as me, I have my full environment back.

So the reboot process is about a 10-15 minute process to actually get to a
usable system again. All the shells I normally run on different workspaces
are all started on one seemingly random workspace, piled on top of each
other, so I have to count tabs to figure out which one is which and move it
to its home workspace and then start the app, usually a tail -fn50 session
that it normally runs, doing this on a per tab basis.

So you can understand why I reboot only when the system really goes aglay.
This morning, as I reported yesterday, the keyboard volume control stuff
has decided to work again, but the mouse suddenly needs a pad about 3 feet
square, its very slow. Calling up the mouse prefs and speeding it up does a
wee bit, but its not normal speed yet.

Thanks Nils.

Cheers, Gene
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene> is up!
One small step for man, one giant stumble for mankind.

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Old 08-21-2012, 11:36 AM
Nils Kassube
 
Default gnome-applet-volume-control is a huge usability regression

Gene Heskett wrote:
> Its my understanding that rc.local is executed as an S99 function in
> /etc/rc.whatever, and the display manager isn't started until all
> that stuff has run. And I have attempted in times past to put
> something that needs X in rc.local, and its always been a 100%
> failure, no display. I have added a couple things to the autostart
> menu, but haven't rebooted to try them yet.

To my understanding the X server is started earlier than rc.local
because rc.local is supposed to run as the last job.

Anyway, usually you can't start applications which need a display from
rc.local unless you provide the DISPLAY variable and run the application
as the user owning the display. As an example, I am the owner of the
display :0.0 as user nils. If I login as nils from Ctrl-Alt-F1, I can't
start any application that needs X running. However if I set DISPLAY
accordingly, it works:

DISPLAY=:0.0 xeyes

And if I wanted to run the application from rc.local it would be

su nils -c 'DISPLAY=:0.0 xeyes'

> I asked how to start a program on a specific workspace but no one has
> volunteered any info on that.

For KDE there is kstart to do that but I don't know if it would work
with Gnome.


Nils

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Old 08-21-2012, 11:50 AM
Oliver Grawert
 
Default gnome-applet-volume-control is a huge usability regression

hi,
Am Dienstag, den 21.08.2012, 06:45 -0400 schrieb Gene Heskett:
> > > (Someone correct me if i'm wrong, my knowledge is old and non-Ubuntu,
> > > but i don't see why this would have changed.)
> > > All scripts in /etc/rc.5/ will not be run until runlevel 5 is
> > > reached, which is typically the "graphical" run level.
> >
here is an upstart script, just store it in /etc/init/myscript.conf and
be done:

--- snip ---

description: "running myscript"

start on (starting gdm
or starting kdm
or starting xdm
or starting lxdm
or starting lightdm)

task
script
/path/to/your/script
end script
--- snap ---

this will fire your script only if the display manager emitted the
"starting" event .. for more details see [1]

ciao
oli

[1] http://upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook/
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