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Old 07-12-2012, 02:40 PM
Gene Heskett
 
Default A ps to the perms msg

Greets all;

I just changed /var/spool/cron/crontabs/gene so its owned by me again, but
I am still being denied crontab -e permissions. Probably because
/var/spool/cron/crontabs is also owned by root:root. But since that
directory contains ALL the crontabs, I can't just willy nilly change that
to, so I am reduced to scratching my thinning hair and muttering WTF?

???

Thanks.

Cheers, Gene
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene> is up!
If a man slept by day, he had little time to work. That was a
satisfying notion to Escargot.
-- "The Stone Giant", James P. Blaylock

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Old 07-12-2012, 04:06 PM
Colin Law
 
Default A ps to the perms msg

On 12 July 2012 15:40, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:
> Greets all;
>
> I just changed /var/spool/cron/crontabs/gene so its owned by me again, but
> I am still being denied crontab -e permissions. Probably because
> /var/spool/cron/crontabs is also owned by root:root. But since that
> directory contains ALL the crontabs, I can't just willy nilly change that
> to, so I am reduced to scratching my thinning hair and muttering WTF?

On mine, /var/spool/cron/crontabs/<user> is owned by <user> but group
crontab. Try crontab for the group if you have not already done that.
the crontabs folder is owned by root:crontab.

Colin

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Old 07-12-2012, 05:14 PM
Gene Heskett
 
Default A ps to the perms msg

On Thursday 12 July 2012 13:07:22 Colin Law did opine:

> On 12 July 2012 15:40, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:
> > Greets all;
> >
> > I just changed /var/spool/cron/crontabs/gene so its owned by me again,
> > but I am still being denied crontab -e permissions. Probably because
> > /var/spool/cron/crontabs is also owned by root:root. But since that
> > directory contains ALL the crontabs, I can't just willy nilly change
> > that to, so I am reduced to scratching my thinning hair and muttering
> > WTF?
>
> On mine, /var/spool/cron/crontabs/<user> is owned by <user> but group
> crontab. Try crontab for the group if you have not already done that.
> the crontabs folder is owned by root:crontab.
>
> Colin

Thank you, now I can edit it. But looking in that directory, is not root
supposed to have a system stuff file there, something to run logrotate for
example? Mine seems like it is the only one there. ??

Also, I am not a member of the crontab group in /etc/group. That also
seems strange since I am the only meat & bones composed user, with sudo
rights on the machine. Stranger and stranger this rootless ubuntu is
becoming.

Cheers, Gene
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene> is up!
A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely
rearranging their prejudices.
-- William James

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Old 07-12-2012, 08:10 PM
Colin Law
 
Default A ps to the perms msg

On 12 July 2012 18:14, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:
> On Thursday 12 July 2012 13:07:22 Colin Law did opine:
>
>> On 12 July 2012 15:40, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:
>> > Greets all;
>> >
>> > I just changed /var/spool/cron/crontabs/gene so its owned by me again,
>> > but I am still being denied crontab -e permissions. Probably because
>> > /var/spool/cron/crontabs is also owned by root:root. But since that
>> > directory contains ALL the crontabs, I can't just willy nilly change
>> > that to, so I am reduced to scratching my thinning hair and muttering
>> > WTF?
>>
>> On mine, /var/spool/cron/crontabs/<user> is owned by <user> but group
>> crontab. Try crontab for the group if you have not already done that.
>> the crontabs folder is owned by root:crontab.
>
> Thank you, now I can edit it. But looking in that directory, is not root
> supposed to have a system stuff file there, something to run logrotate for
> example? Mine seems like it is the only one there. ??

There is nothing in mine except the ordinary users. I don't know how
it does logrotate and so on.

>
> Also, I am not a member of the crontab group in /etc/group. That also
> seems strange since I am the only meat & bones composed user, with sudo
> rights on the machine. Stranger and stranger this rootless ubuntu is
> becoming.

I am not a member of crontab either, so again I don't know how it
works. No doubt someone more knowledgeable will elucidate ........

Colin

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Old 07-12-2012, 08:46 PM
PleegWat
 
Default A ps to the perms msg

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 07/12/2012 10:10 PM, Colin Law wrote:
> On 12 July 2012 18:14, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:
>> On Thursday 12 July 2012 13:07:22 Colin Law did opine:
>>
>>> On 12 July 2012 15:40, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:
>>>> Greets all;
>>>>
>>>> I just changed /var/spool/cron/crontabs/gene so its owned by
>>>> me again, but I am still being denied crontab -e permissions.
>>>> Probably because /var/spool/cron/crontabs is also owned by
>>>> root:root. But since that directory contains ALL the
>>>> crontabs, I can't just willy nilly change that to, so I am
>>>> reduced to scratching my thinning hair and muttering WTF?
>>>
>>> On mine, /var/spool/cron/crontabs/<user> is owned by <user> but
>>> group crontab. Try crontab for the group if you have not
>>> already done that. the crontabs folder is owned by
>>> root:crontab.
>>
>> Thank you, now I can edit it. But looking in that directory, is
>> not root supposed to have a system stuff file there, something to
>> run logrotate for example? Mine seems like it is the only one
>> there. ??
>
> There is nothing in mine except the ordinary users. I don't know
> how it does logrotate and so on.
>

This is done by anacron instead. Anacron has the ability to 'catch up'
on tasks that were scheduled while your PC was offline, which is
especially useful on desktop machines.

>>
>> Also, I am not a member of the crontab group in /etc/group. That
>> also seems strange since I am the only meat & bones composed
>> user, with sudo rights on the machine. Stranger and stranger
>> this rootless ubuntu is becoming.
>
> I am not a member of crontab either, so again I don't know how it
> works. No doubt someone more knowledgeable will elucidate
> ........
>

It works here, and I'm also not in the crontab group. The magic is
that /usr/bin/crontab is owned by root:crontab and has the setgid bit
set. That means that, when you are using that binary, that binary can
use the permissions of the crontab group even though you are not
ordinarily a member of it.

/var/spool/cron/crontab also has some interesting permissions: It has
group write but not group read. That means that, even as the crontab
group, you cannot list the files in that directory, but you can create
files. It also has the sticky bit set, which means that you can only
delete files in that directory if you own them (rather than being able
to delete any file in that directory).

PleegWat

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Old 07-12-2012, 09:02 PM
Colin Law
 
Default A ps to the perms msg

On 12 July 2012 21:46, PleegWat <pleegwat@telfort.nl> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 07/12/2012 10:10 PM, Colin Law wrote:
>> On 12 July 2012 18:14, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:
>>> On Thursday 12 July 2012 13:07:22 Colin Law did opine:
>>>
>>>> On 12 July 2012 15:40, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:
>>>>> Greets all;
>>>>>
>>>>> I just changed /var/spool/cron/crontabs/gene so its owned by
>>>>> me again, but I am still being denied crontab -e permissions.
>>>>> Probably because /var/spool/cron/crontabs is also owned by
>>>>> root:root. But since that directory contains ALL the
>>>>> crontabs, I can't just willy nilly change that to, so I am
>>>>> reduced to scratching my thinning hair and muttering WTF?
>>>>
>>>> On mine, /var/spool/cron/crontabs/<user> is owned by <user> but
>>>> group crontab. Try crontab for the group if you have not
>>>> already done that. the crontabs folder is owned by
>>>> root:crontab.
>>>
>>> Thank you, now I can edit it. But looking in that directory, is
>>> not root supposed to have a system stuff file there, something to
>>> run logrotate for example? Mine seems like it is the only one
>>> there. ??
>>
>> There is nothing in mine except the ordinary users. I don't know
>> how it does logrotate and so on.
>>
>
> This is done by anacron instead. Anacron has the ability to 'catch up'
> on tasks that were scheduled while your PC was offline, which is
> especially useful on desktop machines.
>
>>>
>>> Also, I am not a member of the crontab group in /etc/group. That
>>> also seems strange since I am the only meat & bones composed
>>> user, with sudo rights on the machine. Stranger and stranger
>>> this rootless ubuntu is becoming.
>>
>> I am not a member of crontab either, so again I don't know how it
>> works. No doubt someone more knowledgeable will elucidate
>> ........
>>
>
> It works here, and I'm also not in the crontab group. The magic is
> that /usr/bin/crontab is owned by root:crontab and has the setgid bit
> set. That means that, when you are using that binary, that binary can
> use the permissions of the crontab group even though you are not
> ordinarily a member of it.
>
> /var/spool/cron/crontab also has some interesting permissions: It has
> group write but not group read. That means that, even as the crontab
> group, you cannot list the files in that directory, but you can create
> files. It also has the sticky bit set, which means that you can only
> delete files in that directory if you own them (rather than being able
> to delete any file in that directory).

Excellent, all is now explained (except how the OP's permissions got
messed up in the first place). Many thanks for the explanation.

Colin

>
> PleegWat
>
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>
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Old 07-12-2012, 10:12 PM
Gene Heskett
 
Default A ps to the perms msg

On Thursday 12 July 2012 18:08:02 PleegWat did opine:

> On 07/12/2012 10:10 PM, Colin Law wrote:
> > On 12 July 2012 18:14, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:
> >> On Thursday 12 July 2012 13:07:22 Colin Law did opine:
> >>> On 12 July 2012 15:40, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:
> >>>> Greets all;
> >>>>
> >>>> I just changed /var/spool/cron/crontabs/gene so its owned by
> >>>> me again, but I am still being denied crontab -e permissions.
> >>>> Probably because /var/spool/cron/crontabs is also owned by
> >>>> root:root. But since that directory contains ALL the
> >>>> crontabs, I can't just willy nilly change that to, so I am
> >>>> reduced to scratching my thinning hair and muttering WTF?
> >>>
> >>> On mine, /var/spool/cron/crontabs/<user> is owned by <user> but
> >>> group crontab. Try crontab for the group if you have not
> >>> already done that. the crontabs folder is owned by
> >>> root:crontab.
> >>
> >> Thank you, now I can edit it. But looking in that directory, is
> >> not root supposed to have a system stuff file there, something to
> >> run logrotate for example? Mine seems like it is the only one
> >> there. ??
> >
> > There is nothing in mine except the ordinary users. I don't know
> > how it does logrotate and so on.
>
> This is done by anacron instead. Anacron has the ability to 'catch up'
> on tasks that were scheduled while your PC was offline, which is
> especially useful on desktop machines.
>
> >> Also, I am not a member of the crontab group in /etc/group. That
> >> also seems strange since I am the only meat & bones composed
> >> user, with sudo rights on the machine. Stranger and stranger
> >> this rootless ubuntu is becoming.
> >
> > I am not a member of crontab either, so again I don't know how it
> > works. No doubt someone more knowledgeable will elucidate
> > ........
>
> It works here, and I'm also not in the crontab group. The magic is
> that /usr/bin/crontab is owned by root:crontab and has the setgid bit
> set. That means that, when you are using that binary, that binary can
> use the permissions of the crontab group even though you are not
> ordinarily a member of it.
>
> /var/spool/cron/crontab also has some interesting permissions: It has
> group write but not group read. That means that, even as the crontab
> group, you cannot list the files in that directory, but you can create
> files. It also has the sticky bit set, which means that you can only
> delete files in that directory if you own them (rather than being able
> to delete any file in that directory).
>
> PleegWat

Thanks for that explanation, you obviously are a heck of a lot better
versed in this than I. It ought to be in a man page on perms! Hint hint.


I've been linux only since RH5 in about '98. And of course I'm an old fart
(77) whose memory seems to get shorter by the day.

Cheers, Gene
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene> is up!
"For I perceive that behind this seemingly unrelated sequence
of events, there lurks a singular, sinister attitude of mind."
"Whose?"
"MINE! HA-HA!"

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Old 07-12-2012, 10:20 PM
Gene Heskett
 
Default A ps to the perms msg

On Thursday 12 July 2012 18:13:57 Colin Law did opine:

> On 12 July 2012 21:46, PleegWat <pleegwat@telfort.nl> wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > On 07/12/2012 10:10 PM, Colin Law wrote:
> >> On 12 July 2012 18:14, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:
> >>> On Thursday 12 July 2012 13:07:22 Colin Law did opine:
> >>>> On 12 July 2012 15:40, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:
> >>>>> Greets all;
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I just changed /var/spool/cron/crontabs/gene so its owned by
> >>>>> me again, but I am still being denied crontab -e permissions.
> >>>>> Probably because /var/spool/cron/crontabs is also owned by
> >>>>> root:root. But since that directory contains ALL the
> >>>>> crontabs, I can't just willy nilly change that to, so I am
> >>>>> reduced to scratching my thinning hair and muttering WTF?
> >>>>
> >>>> On mine, /var/spool/cron/crontabs/<user> is owned by <user> but
> >>>> group crontab. Try crontab for the group if you have not
> >>>> already done that. the crontabs folder is owned by
> >>>> root:crontab.
> >>>
> >>> Thank you, now I can edit it. But looking in that directory, is
> >>> not root supposed to have a system stuff file there, something to
> >>> run logrotate for example? Mine seems like it is the only one
> >>> there. ??
> >>
> >> There is nothing in mine except the ordinary users. I don't know
> >> how it does logrotate and so on.
> >
> > This is done by anacron instead. Anacron has the ability to 'catch up'
> > on tasks that were scheduled while your PC was offline, which is
> > especially useful on desktop machines.
> >
> >>> Also, I am not a member of the crontab group in /etc/group. That
> >>> also seems strange since I am the only meat & bones composed
> >>> user, with sudo rights on the machine. Stranger and stranger
> >>> this rootless ubuntu is becoming.
> >>
> >> I am not a member of crontab either, so again I don't know how it
> >> works. No doubt someone more knowledgeable will elucidate
> >> ........
> >
> > It works here, and I'm also not in the crontab group. The magic is
> > that /usr/bin/crontab is owned by root:crontab and has the setgid bit
> > set. That means that, when you are using that binary, that binary can
> > use the permissions of the crontab group even though you are not
> > ordinarily a member of it.
> >
> > /var/spool/cron/crontab also has some interesting permissions: It has
> > group write but not group read. That means that, even as the crontab
> > group, you cannot list the files in that directory, but you can create
> > files. It also has the sticky bit set, which means that you can only
> > delete files in that directory if you own them (rather than being able
> > to delete any file in that directory).
>
> Excellent, all is now explained (except how the OP's permissions got
> messed up in the first place). Many thanks for the explanation.
>
> Colin

And that, Colin, IS the $64 million question. It is not the first time in
the about a month I've been on this distro that root has suddenly become
the owner of a whole tree of stuff. In my home dir yet!

I changed to ubuntu-10.04.4 LTS basically so all my machines were running
the same distro, 2 others are married to kernel 2.6.32-122-rtai as they are
running machine tools (lathe, mill) in real time. This machine is my do
almost everything else machine.

Thanks.

Cheers, Gene
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene> is up!
Chism's Law of Completion:
The amount of time required to complete a government project is
precisely equal to the length of time already spent on it.

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Old 07-13-2012, 10:29 AM
Oliver Grawert
 
Default A ps to the perms msg

hi,
Am Donnerstag, den 12.07.2012, 21:10 +0100 schrieb Colin Law:
> On 12 July 2012 18:14, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:
> > On Thursday 12 July 2012 13:07:22 Colin Law did opine:
> >
> >> On 12 July 2012 15:40, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:
> >> > Greets all;
> >> >
> >> > I just changed /var/spool/cron/crontabs/gene so its owned by me again,
> >> > but I am still being denied crontab -e permissions. Probably because
> >> > /var/spool/cron/crontabs is also owned by root:root. But since that
> >> > directory contains ALL the crontabs, I can't just willy nilly change
> >> > that to, so I am reduced to scratching my thinning hair and muttering
> >> > WTF?
> >>
> >> On mine, /var/spool/cron/crontabs/<user> is owned by <user> but group
> >> crontab. Try crontab for the group if you have not already done that.
> >> the crontabs folder is owned by root:crontab.
> >
> > Thank you, now I can edit it. But looking in that directory, is not root
> > supposed to have a system stuff file there, something to run logrotate for
> > example? Mine seems like it is the only one there. ??
>
> There is nothing in mine except the ordinary users. I don't know how
> it does logrotate and so on.

system crontabs are in /etc/crontab (which in turn runs the snippets
from the /etc/cron.* directories)...

ciao
oli
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Old 07-13-2012, 11:12 AM
Gene Heskett
 
Default A ps to the perms msg

On Friday 13 July 2012 07:11:16 Oliver Grawert did opine:

> hi,
>
> Am Donnerstag, den 12.07.2012, 21:10 +0100 schrieb Colin Law:
> > On 12 July 2012 18:14, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:
> > > On Thursday 12 July 2012 13:07:22 Colin Law did opine:
> > >> On 12 July 2012 15:40, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:
> > >> > Greets all;
> > >> >
> > >> > I just changed /var/spool/cron/crontabs/gene so its owned by me
> > >> > again, but I am still being denied crontab -e permissions.
> > >> > Probably because /var/spool/cron/crontabs is also owned by
> > >> > root:root. But since that directory contains ALL the crontabs,
> > >> > I can't just willy nilly change that to, so I am reduced to
> > >> > scratching my thinning hair and muttering WTF?
> > >>
> > >> On mine, /var/spool/cron/crontabs/<user> is owned by <user> but
> > >> group crontab. Try crontab for the group if you have not already
> > >> done that.
> > >>
> > >> the crontabs folder is owned by root:crontab.
> > >
> > > Thank you, now I can edit it. But looking in that directory, is not
> > > root supposed to have a system stuff file there, something to run
> > > logrotate for example? Mine seems like it is the only one there.
> > > ??
> >
> > There is nothing in mine except the ordinary users. I don't know how
> > it does logrotate and so on.
>
> system crontabs are in /etc/crontab (which in turn runs the snippets
> from the /etc/cron.* directories)...
>
> ciao
> oli

Good to know that ubuntu hasn't screwed with the normal 'root' stuff, thank
you.

Cheers, Gene
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene> is up!
"Falling in love makes smoking pot all day look like the ultimate in
restraint."
-- Dave Sim, author of Cerebrus.

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