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Old 07-04-2012, 10:44 PM
Ryan Gauger
 
Default remaster ubuntu alternate

I think I was referring to something different, I don't remember, but I don't think I was referring to the pointing out of list usage. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

On Jul 4, 2012, at 2:58 PM, Robert Holtzm <holtzm@cox.net> wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 03, 2012 at 09:42:08PM -0500, Ryan Gauger wrote:
>> If you don't mind my saying so, since no moderators have, I would like to see these types of posts stopped. Can't we all treat each other equally? And top posting is okay, compared to what has been going on on the list. It is quite annoying to see these tearing-down emails land in my inbox. I want to see emails that build people up.
>
> Pointing out incorrect list usage is legitimate education, not "tearing
> down". If you want to be exposed to only uplifting communication, join a
> commune.
>
> --
> Bob Holtzman
> If you think you're getting free lunch,
> check the price of the beer.
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:04 AM
Basil Chupin
 
Default remaster ubuntu alternate

On 05/07/12 07:52, Ric Moore wrote:

On 07/04/2012 03:58 PM, Robert Holtzm wrote:

On Tue, Jul 03, 2012 at 09:42:08PM -0500, Ryan Gauger wrote:
If you don't mind my saying so, since no moderators have, I would
like to see these types of posts stopped. Can't we all treat each
other equally? And top posting is okay, compared to what has been
going on on the list. It is quite annoying to see these tearing-down
emails land in my inbox. I want to see emails that build people up.


Pointing out incorrect list usage is legitimate education, not "tearing
down". If you want to be exposed to only uplifting communication, join a
commune.


A Yoga and granola commune, to be exact. Ric


Or the "Sea Org" run by Tom Cruze's buddies :-) .

BC

--
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AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor
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Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU


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Old 07-05-2012, 06:19 AM
Basil Chupin
 
Default remaster ubuntu alternate

On 05/07/12 07:47, Ric Moore wrote:

On 07/04/2012 11:28 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
On 4 July 2012 16:21, Mika Suomalainen
<mika.henrik.mainio@hotmail.com> wrote:


NOTICE! I am on mobile broadband with very limited time, so I cannot
read emails very much.


If your bandwidth is so limited, do you really need a 48kB signature?!

It might be more polite for the OP to wait until one gets home to a
decent computer and reply to a technical list. I'm sure the world
won't stop spinning if there is a delay. Unless the intention to
inform us that he can email from his handheld, like THAT is so Buck
Rodgers and that we'll all suck our cheeks in and go round-eyed in
amazement and envy.


"I'm sorry, but my Cray X-MP/48 won't LET ME bottom post." is not an
excuse. It merely shows the world that you consider the computer is to
blame for your mistakes so you should be able to continue making them.

Ric


Coincidentally, I made an almost identical comment about such a "bigus
dickus" [**] signature - and which followed 2 other sigs containing the
sender's name and another with more identifying blurb - in another mail
list and got jumped on. Seems that it is all to do with ensuring that
the mail is secure and being posted by the person claimed to be in the
Header of the message; all this even though the mail is being posted in
a public forum and which contains no confidential or secret information.


[**] Monty Python's, 'The Life of Brian'.

BC

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Old 07-05-2012, 06:32 AM
Basil Chupin
 
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On 05/07/12 05:47, chris wrote:

On Wed, 2012-07-04 at 13:16 +0100, Liam Proven wrote:

On 4 July 2012 03:42, Ryan Gauger <rtgkid@gmail.com> wrote:

If you don't mind my saying so, since no moderators have, I would like to see these types of posts stopped. Can't we all treat each other equally? And top posting is okay

No, top-posting is *NOT* okay.

It is specifically banned in the list rules.

I think as we say at the bottom of the world "Your pushing Sh&*T up
hill with this one Liam.


I don't believe so.

I think that one needs to have such matters cleared up once and for all
- and without hesitation.


The expression is "pushing a string up hill". No mention of any "Sh&*T"
anywhere.


Unless you live in a country where there are more sheeps than humans.

Ooops, sorry, you do live in a country with more sheeps than
humans...... General George S. Patton's famously referenced country......


BC

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AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:45 AM
chris
 
Default remaster ubuntu alternate

On Thu, 2012-07-05 at 16:32 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:
> On 05/07/12 05:47, chris wrote:
> > On Wed, 2012-07-04 at 13:16 +0100, Liam Proven wrote:
> >> On 4 July 2012 03:42, Ryan Gauger <rtgkid@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> If you don't mind my saying so, since no moderators have, I would like to see these types of posts stopped. Can't we all treat each other equally? And top posting is okay
> >> No, top-posting is *NOT* okay.
> >>
> >> It is specifically banned in the list rules.
> > I think as we say at the bottom of the world "Your pushing Sh&*T up
> > hill with this one Liam.
>
> I don't believe so.
>
> I think that one needs to have such matters cleared up once and for all
> - and without hesitation.
>
> The expression is "pushing a string up hill". No mention of any "Sh&*T"
> anywhere.
>
> Unless you live in a country where there are more sheeps than humans.
>
> Ooops, sorry, you do live in a country with more sheeps than
> humans...... General George S. Patton's famously referenced country......
>
> BC
>
> --
> Using openSUSE 12.2 x86_64 KDE 4.8.4 & kernel 3.4.4.2 on a system with-
> AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor
> 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM
> Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU
>
>

Now now Basil, you have your fair share of sheep over there too, and be
careful I might be over in a month or so and will give you a hard
time. :-)

Chris


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Old 07-05-2012, 11:02 AM
Avi Greenbury
 
Default remaster ubuntu alternate

Liam Proven wrote:

> On 4 July 2012 03:42, Ryan Gauger <rtgkid@gmail.com> wrote:
> > If you don't mind my saying so, since no moderators have, I would
> > like to see these types of posts stopped. Can't we all treat each
> > other equally? And top posting is okay
>
> No, top-posting is *NOT* okay.
>
> It is specifically banned in the list rules.

It is not specifically banned in the list rules because there are no
hard and fast rules to the list.

It is, however, probably the largest cause of annoyance on this list
which is an even better reason to not do it. This sort of thread is a
close second, so I'd like these to stop, too - keep reading for
details!

We seem to keep spiking at a good signal:noise ratio before dropping
again as a bunch of established subscribers decide to have another
argument. To reiterate, things that are generally accepted as a good
thing to do here are much the same as on any other mailing list. This
includes (but obviously is not limited to):

* Trimmed bottom-posting rather than untrimmed bottom-posting, and that
rather than any form of top-posting

* Posting in all-plain-text. Some people are quite opposed to the idea
of sending two-part (HTML and plain) email. I don't think anyone's
ever expressed a preference for HTML mail.

* Starting a new thread to the list for a new subject. It's easy to get
wrong, but replying and changing the subject does _not_ do this. The
only way to do it is to start a brand new email. I would be willing
to bet that >90% of the people on this list did at some point get this
wrong on some list.

* Staying on-topic and being nice.

There should be no need for any rules because all that is expected of
anybody is that you act like reasonable human beings and that you talk
about things relating to the name of the list; just be nice to each
other, okay?

More importantly, it's absolutely fine to tell people who are deviating
from the established norms that this is what they are doing. It is
absolutely not fine to tell them off for it. Be informative, assume
they were not acting in malice (maliciously top posting, really?) and
assume that, as a normal, reasonable, human being they probably did not
set out to irritate you specifically by putting their reply in the
'wrong' place.

If you feel there is some real need for discussion about how we're
moderating the list, or you'd like to make some comments, we're all
listening (though, personally, I'm doing rather less typing than I'd
like) and you can send your mail to

ubuntu-users-owner@lists.ubuntu.com

To send it to the moderators; it will not be publicly archived. Please,
if you'd like change you need to ask for it. This includes letting us
know if you think someone is repeatedly giving out bad advice - bear in
mind that we may simply not know that what is being said is incorrect!
Calling users out publicly on the list is, generally, not what we want
to see unless you're warning other subscribers about some dangerous
suggestion.

Every mail sent to ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com gets dropped in to
hundreds of mailboxes; please, if you're going to tell people off for
putting their reply in the wrong place, don't put your telling off in
several hundred wrong places in the process. I hate sending these
emails out because I know there's a lot of people subscribing to the
list who don't want to read them, surely that occurs to you every time
you wonder about admonishing somebody for top-posting?

Thanks! Replies to this message should, as you might expect, be
directed to ubuntu-users-owner.

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Old 07-05-2012, 01:09 PM
Gene Heskett
 
Default remaster ubuntu alternate

On Thursday 05 July 2012 09:07:57 Basil Chupin did opine:

> On 05/07/12 07:52, Ric Moore wrote:
> > On 07/04/2012 03:58 PM, Robert Holtzm wrote:
> >> On Tue, Jul 03, 2012 at 09:42:08PM -0500, Ryan Gauger wrote:
> >>> If you don't mind my saying so, since no moderators have, I would
> >>> like to see these types of posts stopped. Can't we all treat each
> >>> other equally? And top posting is okay, compared to what has been
> >>> going on on the list. It is quite annoying to see these tearing-down
> >>> emails land in my inbox. I want to see emails that build people up.
> >>
> >> Pointing out incorrect list usage is legitimate education, not
> >> "tearing down". If you want to be exposed to only uplifting
> >> communication, join a commune.
> >
> > A Yoga and granola commune, to be exact. Ric
>
> Or the "Sea Org" run by Tom Cruze's buddies :-) .
>
> BC

I'm worried about both Siri and Katie. That outfit doesn't simply let
folks walk away.

Cheers, Gene
--
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soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
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I brake for chezlogs!

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Old 07-05-2012, 01:27 PM
Ryan Gauger
 
Default remaster ubuntu alternate

On Jul 5, 2012, at 6:02 AM, Avi Greenbury <lists@avi.co> wrote:

> Liam Proven wrote:
>
>> On 4 July 2012 03:42, Ryan Gauger <rtgkid@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> If you don't mind my saying so, since no moderators have, I would
>>> like to see these types of posts stopped. Can't we all treat each
>>> other equally? And top posting is okay
>>
>> No, top-posting is *NOT* okay.
>>
>> It is specifically banned in the list rules.
>
> It is not specifically banned in the list rules because there are no
> hard and fast rules to the list.
>
> It is, however, probably the largest cause of annoyance on this list
> which is an even better reason to not do it. This sort of thread is a
> close second, so I'd like these to stop, too - keep reading for
> details!
>
> We seem to keep spiking at a good signal:noise ratio before dropping
> again as a bunch of established subscribers decide to have another
> argument. To reiterate, things that are generally accepted as a good
> thing to do here are much the same as on any other mailing list. This
> includes (but obviously is not limited to):
>
> * Trimmed bottom-posting rather than untrimmed bottom-posting, and that
> rather than any form of top-posting
>
> * Posting in all-plain-text. Some people are quite opposed to the idea
> of sending two-part (HTML and plain) email. I don't think anyone's
> ever expressed a preference for HTML mail.
>
> * Starting a new thread to the list for a new subject. It's easy to get
> wrong, but replying and changing the subject does _not_ do this. The
> only way to do it is to start a brand new email. I would be willing
> to bet that >90% of the people on this list did at some point get this
> wrong on some list.
>
> * Staying on-topic and being nice.
>
> There should be no need for any rules because all that is expected of
> anybody is that you act like reasonable human beings and that you talk
> about things relating to the name of the list; just be nice to each
> other, okay?
>
> More importantly, it's absolutely fine to tell people who are deviating
> from the established norms that this is what they are doing. It is
> absolutely not fine to tell them off for it. Be informative, assume
> they were not acting in malice (maliciously top posting, really?) and
> assume that, as a normal, reasonable, human being they probably did not
> set out to irritate you specifically by putting their reply in the
> 'wrong' place.
>
> If you feel there is some real need for discussion about how we're
> moderating the list, or you'd like to make some comments, we're all
> listening (though, personally, I'm doing rather less typing than I'd
> like) and you can send your mail to
>
> ubuntu-users-owner@lists.ubuntu.com
>
> To send it to the moderators; it will not be publicly archived. Please,
> if you'd like change you need to ask for it. This includes letting us
> know if you think someone is repeatedly giving out bad advice - bear in
> mind that we may simply not know that what is being said is incorrect!
> Calling users out publicly on the list is, generally, not what we want
> to see unless you're warning other subscribers about some dangerous
> suggestion.
>
> Every mail sent to ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com gets dropped in to
> hundreds of mailboxes; please, if you're going to tell people off for
> putting their reply in the wrong place, don't put your telling off in
> several hundred wrong places in the process. I hate sending these
> emails out because I know there's a lot of people subscribing to the
> list who don't want to read them, surely that occurs to you every time
> you wonder about admonishing somebody for top-posting?
>
> Thanks! Replies to this message should, as you might expect, be
> directed to ubuntu-users-owner.
>
> --
> Avi
>
> --
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> ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
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I think we should be worrying about how we are acting towards each other, if we are going to worry about anything at this point.
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Old 07-05-2012, 03:52 PM
CJ Tres
 
Default remaster ubuntu alternate

On 07/04/2012 05:44 PM, Ryan Gauger wrote:

I think I was referring to something different, I don't remember, but I don't think I was referring to the pointing out of list usage. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

On Jul 4, 2012, at 2:58 PM, Robert Holtzm<holtzm@cox.net> wrote:



I've lost track of how many times you've been asked not to top post or
told it is counter to list rules/suggestions and yet you persist.
OK, have it your way and eventually all the people you need to read your
pleas for help won't see you post because you've earned getting
killfiled by all the helpful/knowledgable folks on the list.


You've made my list and I consider myself patient but I'm tired of
seeing your display of arrogance.


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Old 07-05-2012, 04:21 PM
Dave Woyciesjes
 
Default remaster ubuntu alternate

On 07/04/2012 03:49 AM, Colin Law wrote:

On 4 July 2012 03:14, NoOp <glgxg@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

On 07/02/2012 08:02 AM, Amaury VH wrote:

Hi,


Is there some particular reason why you couldn't have started a new
thread rather than hijacking the original thread of "Can't log into Ubuntu"?


Probably because he/she did not realise that changing the subject was
not the same as starting a new thread. Lack of knowledge rather than
stupidity or malice.



Is there some reason why long time subscribers to this list continue to
respond to hijacked threads, go on your merry way, and simply ignore the
fact that you've just contributed to the issue? Colin... Oliver...
Liam... etc.


Sadly that, for me, that is as a result of using gmail, which treats a
change of subject line as a change of thread, so to me it appeared
that this is a new thread. I don't suppose there is any way we can
get gmail to follow threads correctly.


Easy fix. Install & configure a proper standards-following MUA like
Thunderbird, Evolution, or Pine.

Every web-based MUA I've seen is crap.


I must apologise to the OP for
accidentally replying to a thread hijack.




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