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Old 02-27-2012, 09:36 PM
Rashkae
 
Default alternate (RAID1) install

On 02/27/2012 04:52 PM, James wrote:


I can use the gui front end to set up
the Raid1 partitions on both disk, but then
they are do not have the file systems
(ext4 and swap) nor the mount points.


This is probably the easiest way to go. Use the gui to create the
partitions and Raid array, then install on those partitions. When you
are in the text-based installer, you have to choose "Configure a Raid
Array" for the installer to search for and detect the array. Then you
can choose the individual md devices to install /, /boot and Swap on.
(Note, if you are installing / on a Raid 1 array, there is little reason
to install /boot on it's own partition. I would personally install
/home on it's own partition instead.)


There is an important caveat. When you are creating partitions in the
Gui, make certain that the last partition does not reach the end of the
disk. That is to say, assuming the partition program is now aligning
the partitions to MiB boundaries, you should shrink the last partition
so there is 1 MiB of unpartitioned space at the the end of the drive. I
don't know if things have changed since the new installers, but trying
to install Ubuntu 10.04 without doing this can be disastrous, (depending
on which version of the raid superblock was installed when creating the
array, but here things just get technical and messy.)




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Old 02-27-2012, 10:33 PM
James
 
Default alternate (RAID1) install

Rashkae <ubuntu <at> tigershaunt.com> writes:


> This is probably the easiest way to go.

I just found the UbuntuServerGuide for 11.10.

I'm going to follow the Advanced Installation steps
(mostly) for Software RAID install on multiple partitions.


It should be fine as a guiding doc?


James


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Old 02-27-2012, 11:47 PM
Liam Proven
 
Default alternate (RAID1) install

On 27 February 2012 23:33, James <wireless@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> Rashkae <ubuntu <at> tigershaunt.com> writes:
>
>
>> This is probably the easiest way to go.
>
> I just found the UbuntuServerGuide for 11.10.
>
> I'm going to follow the Advanced Installation steps
> (mostly) for Software RAID install on multiple partitions.
>
>
> It should be fine as a guiding doc?

Probably, yes.

Note that you can't, AFAIK, mirror swap partitions, but you wouldn't
want to. Just make 2 × half-size swap partitions: so if you want 4GB
swap, make 2 × 2GB partitions. The kernel will use two, no problem.

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Old 02-28-2012, 12:41 AM
Rashkae
 
Default alternate (RAID1) install

On 02/27/2012 07:47 PM, Liam Proven wrote:


Note that you can't, AFAIK, mirror swap partitions, but you wouldn't
want to. Just make 2 half-size swap partitions: so if you want 4GB
swap, make 2 2GB partitions. The kernel will use two, no problem.

I'll have to respectfully disagree.

1. You can, in fact, mirror swap partitions, (or any other form of
raid.) Just use the md device as your swap.


2. The purpose of raid is not backup, it's reliability. You want the
computer to keep running and automagically recover from hard drive
failures. If you're swap is not on a raid and a hard drive hiccups, the
OS will crash.


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Old 02-28-2012, 01:26 PM
Liam Proven
 
Default alternate (RAID1) install

On 28 February 2012 01:41, Rashkae <ubuntu@tigershaunt.com> wrote:
> On 02/27/2012 07:47 PM, Liam Proven wrote:
>>
>> Note that you can't, AFAIK, mirror swap partitions, but you wouldn't
>> want to. Just make 2 × half-size swap partitions: so if you want 4GB
>> swap, make 2 × 2GB partitions. The kernel will use two, no problem.
>
> I'll have to respectfully disagree.
>
> 1. You can, in fact, mirror swap partitions, (or any other form of raid.)
> *Just use the md device as your swap.
>
> 2. *The purpose of raid is not backup, it's reliability. *You want the
> computer to keep running and automagically recover from hard drive failures.
> *If you're swap is not on a raid and a hard drive hiccups, the OS will
> crash.

Hmmm. All right, I see what you mean. It would damage performance,
though, I think.

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Old 02-28-2012, 06:23 PM
Rashkae
 
Default alternate (RAID1) install

On 02/28/2012 09:26 AM, Liam Proven wrote:

On 28 February 2012 01:41, Rashkae<ubuntu@tigershaunt.com> wrote:

On 02/27/2012 07:47 PM, Liam Proven wrote:

Note that you can't, AFAIK, mirror swap partitions, but you wouldn't
want to. Just make 2 half-size swap partitions: so if you want 4GB
swap, make 2 2GB partitions. The kernel will use two, no problem.

I'll have to respectfully disagree.

1. You can, in fact, mirror swap partitions, (or any other form of raid.)
Just use the md device as your swap.

2. The purpose of raid is not backup, it's reliability. You want the
computer to keep running and automagically recover from hard drive failures.
If you're swap is not on a raid and a hard drive hiccups, the OS will
crash.

Hmmm. All right, I see what you mean. It would damage performance,
though, I think.



Yes and no. A raid array should have very little impart on the
performance (vs. a single drive.) It's true that your suggestion, if
implemented well, would double the theoretical Swap performance. (If
you tweak the priority of swap partitions in the fstab so they are both
the same, Linux will spread the load evenly between the two discs.).


However...

Just like the infamous Raid 0, splitting swap between two discs
literally doubles the odds that the server will come to screaming halt
in the middle of the work day due to some hard drive error.


On a reasonably well tuned system, Swap should almost only be used to
quietly swap out (and sometimes in) rarely used bits of memory in the
background. If your page file is being hit so hard that performance if
even an issue, you have another problem that needs fixing with either
$20 of memory and/or some adjustment of the 'swapinness' knob.





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Old 02-29-2012, 02:47 PM
James
 
Default alternate (RAID1) install

Rashkae <ubuntu <at> tigershaunt.com> writes:


> On a reasonably well tuned system, Swap should almost only be used to
> quietly swap out (and sometimes in) rarely used bits of memory in the
> background. If your page file is being hit so hard that performance if
> even an issue, you have another problem that needs fixing with either
> $20 of memory and/or some adjustment of the 'swapinness' knob.

You are correct, from the multitude knowlegable folks I have
talked to.

In fact for my needs, it's going to be a all RAID1 install
2 identical 2TB disks with only boot / and swap. If you do
not set up the swap as raid1, a failure therein will being the
workstation down. Besides, swap performance on a properly configured
workstation is not a significant issue; i.e. it is only used when
installing large packages or working on files larger than the
ram capacity, mostly. Occationally, poorly design software
hogs ram and thus depends too much on swap.

I'm new to Ubuntu, not Linux (old Gentooer). Gentoo's documentation
for Grub-2, GPT, mdadm, etc etc, sucks and is massively out of
date. I'm looking to use Ubuntu to discover a direct, well documented
path to setting up many workstations with boot/root/swap on dual
HD all with RAID1 one. In this day and age, such should be automated
or a custom install iso, methinks.

Lots of gentoo folks use raid, nobody wants to clean up the
documentation in lieu of the recent changes on to setting up raid.

Ubuntu's alternate-11.10.iso, which I believe is the only media to set up
a raid1 workstation, defaults to a single partition and is mostly
geared to putting the RAID1 workstation onto an existing system
and just using one (dual) partition for the raid 1. Then again,
I'm new to Ubuntu so I'm sure I do not know all of the installation
nuances for what I need...


Many smart (gentoo) users have said to just use the ubuntu install
first and then put Gentoo over ubuntu; so that is what I'm doing.

However, since I find lots of nice documentation on Ubuntu
(I particularly like the Ubuntu.serverguide.pdf)
I think I'm going to play around with Ubuntu and maybe
build a RAID1 workstation and a few servers suggested in the
aforementioned doc, and note the performance and ease of management issue.

Gentoo sucks on installation, but is fabulous on maintenance
and customization. Using gpt, grub2, etc etc on Gentoo is difficult
because there is not decent documentation.

Ubuntu, just may have a place in my humble network..
(as a side note, I see many folks form gentoo, in your
archives...)

James





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Old 02-29-2012, 11:03 PM
Steven Davies-Morris
 
Default alternate (RAID1) install

On 02/29/2012 07:47 AM, James wrote:

Rashkae<ubuntu<at> tigershaunt.com> writes:



On a reasonably well tuned system, Swap should almost only be used to
quietly swap out (and sometimes in) rarely used bits of memory in the
background. If your page file is being hit so hard that performance if
even an issue, you have another problem that needs fixing with either
$20 of memory and/or some adjustment of the 'swapinness' knob.


You are correct, from the multitude knowlegable folks I have
talked to.

In fact for my needs, it's going to be a all RAID1 install
2 identical 2TB disks with only boot / and swap. If you do
not set up the swap as raid1, a failure therein will being the
workstation down. Besides, swap performance on a properly configured
workstation is not a significant issue; i.e. it is only used when
installing large packages or working on files larger than the
ram capacity, mostly. Occationally, poorly design software
hogs ram and thus depends too much on swap.

I'm new to Ubuntu, not Linux (old Gentooer). Gentoo's documentation
for Grub-2, GPT, mdadm, etc etc, sucks and is massively out of
date. I'm looking to use Ubuntu to discover a direct, well documented
path to setting up many workstations with boot/root/swap on dual
HD all with RAID1 one. In this day and age, such should be automated
or a custom install iso, methinks.

Lots of gentoo folks use raid, nobody wants to clean up the
documentation in lieu of the recent changes on to setting up raid.

Ubuntu's alternate-11.10.iso, which I believe is the only media to set up
a raid1 workstation, defaults to a single partition and is mostly
geared to putting the RAID1 workstation onto an existing system
and just using one (dual) partition for the raid 1. Then again,
I'm new to Ubuntu so I'm sure I do not know all of the installation
nuances for what I need...


Many smart (gentoo) users have said to just use the ubuntu install
first and then put Gentoo over ubuntu; so that is what I'm doing.

However, since I find lots of nice documentation on Ubuntu
(I particularly like the Ubuntu.serverguide.pdf)
I think I'm going to play around with Ubuntu and maybe
build a RAID1 workstation and a few servers suggested in the
aforementioned doc, and note the performance and ease of management issue.

Gentoo sucks on installation, but is fabulous on maintenance
and customization. Using gpt, grub2, etc etc on Gentoo is difficult
because there is not decent documentation.

Ubuntu, just may have a place in my humble network..
(as a side note, I see many folks form gentoo, in your
archives...)

James


I just went through this, James. I created a mirrored RAID1 using the
alternate installer for 11.10 with 3 partitions on each drive. First
the swap at half the size put on each drive, then one small and one big
partition. These last two I made be the physical volumes from the RAID.
Then I used the RAID manager to assign to the first RAID partition
and home to the second RAID partition. Done.


Now I plan on setting up a bunch of Hitachi 3TB drives into a RAID6
configuration for the network storage and media server for our LAN here
at home. I discovered that my existing power-supply (900w) simply wasn't
enough for what is going into this box. So a trip to Fry's followed to
get a 1200w RAIDmax unit.

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