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Old 02-24-2012, 03:45 PM
"Kevin O'Gorman"
 
Default moderation. was: The New Face of Ubuntu

On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Cybe R. Wizard
<cybe_r_wizard@earthlink.net> wrote:
> If there is no policy what is the job of a moderator? * ...and why?

As a moderator, I find myself wanting to answer that question, even
though it's tangential to the original thread.

I deal almost exclusively with messages that the software has rejected
already. Almost all of it is submissions that come from non-members.
The vast majority are non-english (I see chineese, hangul, cyrillic,
and a bunch of alphabets I can't even identify), or are obvious bounce
messages, frauds, phishing or spam. Mostly it's a non-brainer based
just on the subject line. All of the above get silently discarded.

The exceptions are reasonable Ubuntu-related English messages,
probably from members, who are sending from an email account that is
not subscribed, or messages that are larger than our size limit. They
get a message telling them what the problem is, and advised to
subscribe/trim and resubmit.

Note how little this has to do with content, or any policy about
content other than choice of language.

Other things are possible, but exceedingly rare.

--
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Old 02-24-2012, 04:09 PM
"Cybe R. Wizard"
 
Default moderation. was: The New Face of Ubuntu

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 08:45:41 -0800
"Kevin O'Gorman" <kogorman@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Cybe R. Wizard
> <cybe_r_wizard@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > If there is no policy what is the job of a moderator? * ...and why?
>
> As a moderator, I find myself wanting to answer that question, even
> though it's tangential to the original thread.
>
> I deal almost exclusively with messages that the software has rejected
> already. Almost all of it is submissions that come from non-members.
> The vast majority are non-english (I see chineese, hangul, cyrillic,
> and a bunch of alphabets I can't even identify), or are obvious bounce
> messages, frauds, phishing or spam. Mostly it's a non-brainer based
> just on the subject line. All of the above get silently discarded.
>
> The exceptions are reasonable Ubuntu-related English messages,
> probably from members, who are sending from an email account that is
> not subscribed, or messages that are larger than our size limit. They
> get a message telling them what the problem is, and advised to
> subscribe/trim and resubmit.
>
> Note how little this has to do with content, or any policy about
> content other than choice of language.
>
> Other things are possible, but exceedingly rare.
>
Thanks, Kevin, that was a great response, answers my question
perfectly and is something that I had never even considered.

Learning is happening!

That said, I have now gotten two responses to my question in my inbox
instead of in my Ubuntu-users folder (one sent directly and
bypassing the mailing list altogether) which is /against/ the mailing
list guidelines. Could you moderators possibly read and follow your own
mailing list guidelines it would probably at least help to serve to
insure that others abide by the same guidelines, too.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
Strength through Unity.
Unity through faith.
Adam Sutler

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Old 02-24-2012, 06:02 PM
Alan Pope
 
Default moderation. was: The New Face of Ubuntu

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Hash: SHA1

On 24/02/12 17:09, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> That said, I have now gotten two responses to my question in my
> inbox instead of in my Ubuntu-users folder (one sent directly and
> bypassing the mailing list altogether) which is /against/ the
> mailing list guidelines.

No, it isn't. We recommend people use the 'reply to list' feature so
people don't _accidentally_ send mail to people when they meant to
send it to the list. This has been a common problem on lists for years.

There's nothing that I know of in the guidelines which explicitly says
don't mail people directly.

> Could you moderators possibly read and follow your own mailing list
> guidelines it would probably at least help to serve to insure that
> others abide by the same guidelines, too.
>

As with all communities in the Ubuntu project, the general subscribers
of this list and indeed the moderators are afforded some leeway. There
is no ruling with an iron fist, stamping out every infraction at every
opportunity. If there was then this list would have died many years ago.

Some might mistakenly _think_ it is, but this list is a lot more
relaxed than most. The global nature of the list, and the huge number
of subscribers means we have to take care to alert people when they're
not taking care to follow the house rules, but also realise when
people make mistakes.

Cheers,
- --
Alan Pope
Engineering Manager

Canonical - Product Strategy
+44 (0) 7973 620 164
alan.pope@canonical.com
http://ubuntu.com/
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Old 02-24-2012, 07:29 PM
Ric Moore
 
Default moderation. was: The New Face of Ubuntu

On 02/24/2012 11:45 AM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:

On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Cybe R. Wizard
<cybe_r_wizard@earthlink.net> wrote:

If there is no policy what is the job of a moderator? ...and why?


As a moderator, I find myself wanting to answer that question, even
though it's tangential to the original thread.

I deal almost exclusively with messages that the software has rejected
already. Almost all of it is submissions that come from non-members.
The vast majority are non-english (I see chineese, hangul, cyrillic,
and a bunch of alphabets I can't even identify), or are obvious bounce
messages, frauds, phishing or spam. Mostly it's a non-brainer based
just on the subject line. All of the above get silently discarded.

The exceptions are reasonable Ubuntu-related English messages,
probably from members, who are sending from an email account that is
not subscribed, or messages that are larger than our size limit. They
get a message telling them what the problem is, and advised to
subscribe/trim and resubmit.

Note how little this has to do with content, or any policy about
content other than choice of language.

Other things are possible, but exceedingly rare.


Kinda like herding cats, huh?? Ric



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Old 02-24-2012, 07:33 PM
Ric Moore
 
Default moderation. was: The New Face of Ubuntu

On 02/24/2012 12:09 PM, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 08:45:41 -0800
"Kevin O'Gorman"<kogorman@gmail.com> wrote:


On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Cybe R. Wizard
<cybe_r_wizard@earthlink.net> wrote:

If there is no policy what is the job of a moderator? ...and why?


As a moderator, I find myself wanting to answer that question, even
though it's tangential to the original thread.

I deal almost exclusively with messages that the software has rejected
already. Almost all of it is submissions that come from non-members.
The vast majority are non-english (I see chineese, hangul, cyrillic,
and a bunch of alphabets I can't even identify), or are obvious bounce
messages, frauds, phishing or spam. Mostly it's a non-brainer based
just on the subject line. All of the above get silently discarded.

The exceptions are reasonable Ubuntu-related English messages,
probably from members, who are sending from an email account that is
not subscribed, or messages that are larger than our size limit. They
get a message telling them what the problem is, and advised to
subscribe/trim and resubmit.

Note how little this has to do with content, or any policy about
content other than choice of language.

Other things are possible, but exceedingly rare.


Thanks, Kevin, that was a great response, answers my question
perfectly and is something that I had never even considered.

Learning is happening!

That said, I have now gotten two responses to my question in my inbox
instead of in my Ubuntu-users folder (one sent directly and
bypassing the mailing list altogether) which is /against/ the mailing
list guidelines. Could you moderators possibly read and follow your own
mailing list guidelines it would probably at least help to serve to
insure that others abide by the same guidelines, too.


Seemingly the "guidelines" are a moving target. There USED to be an
official sanction against top posting. Then it was removed. Then it was
said to be re-instated. I don't see it now. It's JARRING to be reading
nicely trimmed bottom post responses then WHAM! A top post, followed by
another. It hurts my head. It makes the list a mishmash. Is there an
~official guideline~ regarding that now?? Ric




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Old 02-24-2012, 07:38 PM
Ric Moore
 
Default moderation. was: The New Face of Ubuntu

On 02/24/2012 02:02 PM, Alan Pope wrote:


Some might mistakenly _think_ it is, but this list is a lot more
relaxed than most. The global nature of the list, and the huge number
of subscribers means we have to take care to alert people when they're
not taking care to follow the house rules, but also realize when
people make mistakes.


The Official Statistic on making mistakes frequency is 15% of the time,
for humans. Just thought you ought to know. Ric


p/s Ubuntu <---there, I mentioned Ubuntu.

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Old 02-24-2012, 07:42 PM
"Kevin O'Gorman"
 
Default moderation. was: The New Face of Ubuntu

On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 12:33 PM, Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 02/24/2012 12:09 PM, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 08:45:41 -0800
>> "Kevin O'Gorman"<kogorman@gmail.com> *wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Cybe R. Wizard
>>> <cybe_r_wizard@earthlink.net> *wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If there is no policy what is the job of a moderator? * ...and why?
>>>
>>>
>>> As a moderator, I find myself wanting to answer that question, even
>>> though it's tangential to the original thread.
>>>
>>> I deal almost exclusively with messages that the software has rejected
>>> already. *Almost all of it is submissions that come from non-members.
>>> The vast majority are non-english (I see chineese, hangul, cyrillic,
>>> and a bunch of alphabets I can't even identify), or are obvious bounce
>>> messages, frauds, phishing or spam. *Mostly it's a non-brainer based
>>> just on the subject line. All of the above get silently discarded.
>>>
>>> The exceptions are reasonable Ubuntu-related English messages,
>>> probably from members, who are sending from an email account that is
>>> not subscribed, or messages that are larger than our size limit. *They
>>> get a message telling them what the problem is, and advised to
>>> subscribe/trim and resubmit.
>>>
>>> Note how little this has to do with content, or any policy about
>>> content other than choice of language.
>>>
>>> Other things are possible, but exceedingly rare.
>>>
>> Thanks, Kevin, that was a great response, answers my question
>> perfectly and is something that I had never even considered.
>>
>> Learning is happening!
>>
>> That said, I have now gotten two responses to my question in my inbox
>> instead of in my Ubuntu-users folder (one sent directly and
>> bypassing the mailing list altogether) which is /against/ the mailing
>> list guidelines. Could you moderators possibly read and follow your own
>> mailing list guidelines it would probably at least help to serve to
>> insure that others abide by the same guidelines, too.
>
>
> Seemingly the "guidelines" are a moving target. There USED to be an official
> sanction against top posting. Then it was removed. Then it was said to be
> re-instated. I don't see it now. It's JARRING to be reading nicely trimmed
> bottom post responses then WHAM! A top post, followed by another. It hurts
> my head. It makes the list a mishmash. Is there an ~official guideline~
> regarding that now?? Ric

The temptation to top-post a reply is considerable, but Ric *did* indicate such
things cause him pain. Nevertheless, reading is a skill set best
applied liberally
so that you can read a variety of things, both in content and presentation.

No matter what rules you might apply (and we don't exactly *have* rules here,)
some things will be easier to read than others. There's no getting away from
it.

Moreover, please re-read Alan's comments above re "leeway" and "iron fist".

--
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Old 02-25-2012, 03:49 AM
Basil Chupin
 
Default moderation. was: The New Face of Ubuntu

Only one course of action to follow from now on, old boy, and that is to
top-post every and each time.


Why try and impose on yourself, and others, some mythical rule which
does not exist?


BC


On 25/02/12 07:33, Ric Moore wrote:

[prune]

Seemingly the "guidelines" are a moving target. There USED to be an
official sanction against top posting. Then it was removed. Then it
was said to be re-instated. I don't see it now. It's JARRING to be
reading nicely trimmed bottom post responses then WHAM! A top post,
followed by another. It hurts my head. It makes the list a mishmash.
Is there an ~official guideline~ regarding that now?? Ric


--
I'd rather live one more day as a wolf than an entire life as a lamb.

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Old 02-25-2012, 04:02 AM
William Scott Lockwood III
 
Default moderation. was: The New Face of Ubuntu

It's amazing to me that anyone wold actively try to buck the system here. They killed sounder for less. The PTB have demonstrated time and again that they have a 'shoot first and ask questions* later' mentality.



Kinda makes you wish you could take the word 'Ubuntu' back, since the way in which the PTB are acting flies so directly in the face of the meaning of the word. It really makes me sad.


Sent from a phone, please excuse any typos.

On Feb 24, 2012 10:50 PM, "Basil Chupin" <blchupin@iinet.net.au> wrote:
Only one course of action to follow from now on, old boy, and that is to top-post every and each time.



Why try and impose on yourself, and others, some mythical rule which does not exist?



BC





On 25/02/12 07:33, Ric Moore wrote:



[prune]




Seemingly the "guidelines" are a moving target. There USED to be an official sanction against top posting. Then it was removed. Then it was said to be re-instated. I don't see it now. It's JARRING to be reading nicely trimmed bottom post responses then WHAM! A top post, followed by another. It hurts my head. It makes the list a mishmash. Is there an ~official guideline~ regarding that now?? Ric





--

I'd rather live one more day as a wolf than an entire life as a lamb.



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Old 02-25-2012, 04:23 AM
Ric Moore
 
Default moderation. was: The New Face of Ubuntu

On 02/24/2012 11:49 PM, Basil Chupin wrote:

Only one course of action to follow from now on, old boy, and that is to
top-post every and each time.

Why try and impose on yourself, and others, some mythical rule which
does not exist?

BC


On 25/02/12 07:33, Ric Moore wrote:

[prune]


Seemingly the "guidelines" are a moving target. There USED to be an
official sanction against top posting. Then it was removed. Then it
was said to be re-instated. I don't see it now. It's JARRING to be
reading nicely trimmed bottom post responses then WHAM! A top post,
followed by another. It hurts my head. It makes the list a mishmash.
Is there an ~official guideline~ regarding that now?? Ric




Oh Cripes! You've been infected! <shakes head> Oh! The Humanity! Ric


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