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Old 02-03-2012, 01:19 AM
"Cybe R. Wizard"
 
Default Another rant of mine on ubu-users

As the bikeshed is a public mailing list I don't feel as if it is
wrong to Cc: this to the ubuntu-users list as it is concerning
'technical support." therefore, I /am/ Cc:ing it back there, too.

On Thu, 2 Feb 2012 16:38:24 +0000
Avi Greenbury <lists@avi.co> wrote:

> Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> > Where the heck are the 'moderators' when people top post and send in
> > HTML, both of which are /against/ not only the spirit but also the
> > very letter of the CoC?
>
> The code of conduct mentions neither HTML nor top posting.

I beg your pardon; I referenced the mailing list guidelines, not the
CofC. My bad. I do, though, see that you understood my intent if not
my actual wording. Thanks for that.
>
> The list guidelines are guidelines, not rules.

Then why bother yourselves with OT or with any of it at all?
Ubuntu-users got on just fine for years without active moderation. Now
you tell me that moderation isn't really needed? ...so soon after
beginning active moderation? Strange, isn't it?

To me, is seems not just strange, but pretty disingenuous.
>
> > It is well and good to piss and moan about off-topic posts, but each
> > and every thing that violates the CoC is just as important as
> > off-topic posting, yet I have /NEVER/ seen moderators doing /ONE
> > SINGLE THING/ about these gross, continuous and egregious
> > violations.
>
> That's because they're not violations.

It depends upon your definition. If it invites moderation it is a
violation of /something/ and still is a double standard if one
'guideline' is moderated and another is not.
>
> > Is that an edict from On High; that you only berate and castigate
> > off-topic posts?
>
> There are no edicts from on high.

Do you mean that, "there is no cabal?" ;-]
>
> > C'mon, you guys, do your real job or just quit doing anything at
> > all.
>
> Our 'real job' is to respond to what the userbase want. Generally,
> when people complain, it's about off-topic threads rather than
> top-posting or HTML mail.

I was given to understand that moderation was to enforce the 'rules'
that aren't really rules, but only guidelines. Must I really delve
into the archives to back this up? I'm sure that you remember the
discussions on-list. If one, then the other.
>
> I'm intrigued, though, I've never noticed an HTML email to the list
> and I use claws, too. What have you done to it to make these mails so
> hard to read?

I see by the message pane right hand sidebar that they are HTML. It
isn't a case of /my/ not being able to read them. It is a case of:

"Avoid sending emails in HTML format, if possible. (and it is always
possible) Some people may find it more difficult to read or reply to
these emails. Also, HTML email takes up more space, so people with
restricted Internet access will be happier to receive plain text
emails."
http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/mailinglists
>
> > Any other way is just unfair.
>
> No. We'll always prioritise, and we'll always get those priorities
> wrong in some people's opinions. We'll also, generally, be
> mildly inconsistent because we're not all the same person.

I'm not asking that you do this because it is my opinion that you
should. I ask it because to do otherwise is plainly not fair in view
of the guidelines in
(http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/mailinglists) Ubuntu's own
words.
>
> > I've received email confirmation from a busy moderator (thanks for
> > taking the time out to care) that a discussion concerning that topic
> > (rant) is currently going on. Will anything change? Will it help?
>
> It's not likely to. The current consensus is that we'll mention it to
> users if we're replying to the post and it's particularly egregious,
> as we might for bottom posted mail that's not snipped, but that's how
> it was before. Like I say, nobody else seems to have minded,

You mean that no one else has complained/mentioned it. That isn't too
difficult to understand because, if it isn't on topic, one might
receive moderation. In other words, many may fear reprisal.
>
> > Am I just pissing into the wind?
>
> Yes.
>
Ah, well, I'm used to a damp face by now.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
Strength through Unity.
Unity through faith.
Adam Sutler

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Old 02-03-2012, 02:00 AM
Basil Chupin
 
Default Another rant of mine on ubu-users

On 03/02/12 13:19, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:

As the bikeshed is a public mailing list I don't feel as if it is
wrong to Cc: this to the ubuntu-users list as it is concerning
'technical support." therefore, I /am/ Cc:ing it back there, too.


[pruned]


C'mon, you guys, do your real job or just quit doing anything at
all.

Our 'real job' is to respond to what the userbase want. Generally,
when people complain, it's about off-topic threads rather than
top-posting or HTML mail.

I was given to understand that moderation was to enforce the 'rules'
that aren't really rules, but only guidelines. Must I really delve
into the archives to back this up? I'm sure that you remember the
discussions on-list. If one, then the other.

I'm intrigued, though, I've never noticed an HTML email to the list
and I use claws, too. What have you done to it to make these mails so
hard to read?

I see by the message pane right hand sidebar that they are HTML. It
isn't a case of /my/ not being able to read them. It is a case of:

"Avoid sending emails in HTML format, if possible. (and it is always
possible) Some people may find it more difficult to read or reply to
these emails. Also, HTML email takes up more space, so people with
restricted Internet access will be happier to receive plain text
emails."
http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/mailinglists



Threat from new virus-infected emails which take over your PC even if
you DON'T open their attachment


A new class of cyber attack is threatening PCs - emails which infect PCs
without the user having to open an attachment.


The user will not even be warned this is happening - the only message
that appears is 'loading'.

....................
The new generation of e-mail-borne malware consists of HTML e-mails
which automatically downloads malware when the e-mail is opened.'



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2094982/Threat-new-virus-infected-emails-PC-DONT-open-attachments.html

BC

--
"If I were a rich man, yubbydibbydibbydibbydibbydibbydibbydum.
All day long I’d biddybiddybum, if I were a wealthy man.

Which probably explains why I’m not."



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Old 02-03-2012, 03:19 AM
"Cybe R. Wizard"
 
Default Another rant of mine on ubu-users

On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 14:00:24 +1100
Basil Chupin <blchupin@iinet.net.au> wrote:

[HTML mail]

> Threat from new virus-infected emails which take over your PC even
> if you DON'T open their attachment
>
>
> A new class of cyber attack is threatening PCs - emails which infect
> PCs without the user having to open an attachment.
>
> The user will not even be warned this is happening - the only message
> that appears is 'loading'.
> ....................
> The new generation of e-mail-borne malware consists of HTML e-mails
> which automatically downloads malware when the e-mail is opened.'
>
>
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2094982/Threat-new-virus-infected-emails-PC-DONT-open-attachments.html
>
> BC

I was going to reply that this isn't likely to be a problem for us
GNU/Linux users (security through obscurity if nothing else), then
remembered that Ubuntu is drawing Win users by the scores and
multitudes who still run their boxen on that vile POS. It is,
therefore, a realistic problem which further verifies my own concerns.

Ubuntu, listen up!

Cybe R. Wizard
--
Strength through Unity.
Unity through faith.
Adam Sutler

--
ubuntu-users mailing list
ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
 
Old 02-03-2012, 03:43 AM
Basil Chupin
 
Default Another rant of mine on ubu-users

On 03/02/12 15:19, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:

On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 14:00:24 +1100
Basil Chupin<blchupin@iinet.net.au> wrote:

[HTML mail]


Threat from new virus-infected emails which take over your PC even
if you DON'T open their attachment


A new class of cyber attack is threatening PCs - emails which infect
PCs without the user having to open an attachment.

The user will not even be warned this is happening - the only message
that appears is 'loading'.
....................
The new generation of e-mail-borne malware consists of HTML e-mails
which automatically downloads malware when the e-mail is opened.'


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2094982/Threat-new-virus-infected-emails-PC-DONT-open-attachments.html

BC

I was going to reply that this isn't likely to be a problem for us
GNU/Linux users (security through obscurity if nothing else),


The assumption is always made that such things can only be a problem on
Windows and/or Mac systems.


While the article makes no claim as to which systems are susceptible
(they never do mention this anyway :-( ) but I see no reason why Linux
cannot be affected because even Linux uses javascript - and I suspect,
but do not know, of course - that this html malware would be using java.




then
remembered that Ubuntu is drawing Win users by the scores and
multitudes who still run their boxen on that vile POS. It is,
therefore, a realistic problem which further verifies my own concerns.

Ubuntu, listen up!

Cybe R. Wizard

BC

--
"If I were a rich man, yubbydibbydibbydibbydibbydibbydibbydum.
All day long I’d biddybiddybum, if I were a wealthy man.

Which probably explains why I’m not."



--
ubuntu-users mailing list
ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
 
Old 02-03-2012, 08:07 AM
Avi Greenbury
 
Default Another rant of mine on ubu-users

Basil Chupin wrote:

> On 03/02/12 13:19, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> > As the bikeshed is a public mailing list I don't feel as if it is
> > wrong to Cc: this to the ubuntu-users list as it is concerning
> > 'technical support." therefore, I /am/ Cc:ing it back there, too.
>

Please, let's not. This is not technical support.

--
Avi

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Old 02-03-2012, 11:01 AM
Basil Chupin
 
Default Another rant of mine on ubu-users

On 03/02/12 20:07, Avi Greenbury wrote:

Basil Chupin wrote:


On 03/02/12 13:19, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:

As the bikeshed is a public mailing list I don't feel as if it is
wrong to Cc: this to the ubuntu-users list as it is concerning
'technical support." therefore, I /am/ Cc:ing it back there, too.

Please, let's not. This is not technical support.



Ce?!

If you are going to quote then quote correctly and don't deliberately
wipe out text and then point at me when you write your "from high above"
pronouncements.


What *I* wrote WAS perfectly technical and it alerts people about
something which may well affect everyone using this mail list - but you
deleted that, didn't you?


BC

--
A three-year-old boy was examining his testicles while taking a bath.
"Mum" he asked, "are these my brains?"
"Not yet," she replied.


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Old 02-03-2012, 12:49 PM
"Cybe R. Wizard"
 
Default Another rant of mine on ubu-users

On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 09:05:18 +0000
Avi Greenbury <lists@avi.co> wrote:

> Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
>
> > As the bikeshed is a public mailing list I don't feel as if it is
> > wrong to Cc: this to the ubuntu-users list as it is concerning
> > 'technical support." therefore, I /am/ Cc:ing it back there, too.
>
> This is not technical support in any sense of the term. Please don't
> spam the ubuntu-users list with your responses to it.
>
Absolute nonsense. It /is/ a technical question:

cybe@wizardstower:~$ dict technical
From WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006) [wn]:

technical
adj 1: of or relating to technique or proficiency in a practical
skill; "his technical innovation was his brushwork"; "the
technical dazzle of her dancing" [syn: {technical},
{proficient}]

(read that "practical skill" as posting correctly according
to /UBUNTU's/ 'guidelines')

<snip>
4: of or relating to or requiring special knowledge to be
understood; "technical terminology"; "a technical report";
"technical language" [syn: {technical}, {expert}]

Please don't let being a moderator lead you to blindness.

...and how about my actual points raised? Do you not have any
recourse except to silence them, too? I believe Ubuntu users have a
right to be informed, don't you? Or is user information to come only
from 'official' sources?

Cybe R. Wizard
--
Strength through Unity.
Unity through faith.
Adam Sutler

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ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
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Old 02-03-2012, 01:54 PM
"W. Scott Lockwood III"
 
Default Another rant of mine on ubu-users

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ubuntu-users-bounces@lists.ubuntu.com [mailto:ubuntu-users-
> bounces@lists.ubuntu.com] On Behalf Of Basil Chupin
> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 6:02 AM
> To: ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
> Subject: Re: Another rant of mine on ubu-users
> Ce?!
>
> If you are going to quote then quote correctly and don't deliberately wipe
> out text and then point at me when you write your "from high above"
> pronouncements.
>
> What *I* wrote WAS perfectly technical and it alerts people about
something
> which may well affect everyone using this mail list - but you deleted
that,
> didn't you?

War is peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ketchup is a Vegetable.

--
W. Scott Lockwood III




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