FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor

Go Back   Linux Archive > Ubuntu > Ubuntu User

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 11-19-2011, 09:07 PM
Art Edwards
 
Default My request to ubuntu developer team

The problem for me is that I use the computer for real work. I know
others do, but it's not even a little bit of a hobby for me. Gnome 2
had been an incredibly nice productivity tool. To me, Unity is big
and dumb. It seems the world has fallen in love with tablet
interfaces. I don't want a bunch of eye-candy on my desktop. Is
there any chance that someone will fork gnome to serve the original
geeks who grew up using linux?





On 11/17/2011 09:51 PM, R S V Reddy wrote:

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 10:08 PM, Liam
Proven <lproven@gmail.com>
wrote:

*


> But finally I would say that we are home users,

> we no more 'no' much of the
technology under the tree but take only the shadow

> which we need. So if our tree changes, we feel some
pain.




I'm afraid I don't understand this at all. Is it a translated
saying

or aphorism?




By mistake, I just wrote 'no', it is in fact 'know'!

*

I have noticed that the change from GNOME 2 to Unity does seem
to have

caused many people much pain, yes. Personally I find this hard
to

understand, but then, Unity is much like Mac OS X and I know
Macs very

well, having been a Mac user (as well as a PC and Unix one)
since the

late 1980s. It is hard for me to understand how so many people
can be

so inflexible that a simple rearrangement of their desktop
makes them

hate the new system.



I think that the best thing that could come out of it is lots
of new

users for Xubuntu and Xfce, which is not as sophisticated as
GNOME but

can be made to look and work very much like it.



(A few versions ago, the Xubuntu desktop looked almost exactly
like

GNOME, with the same panels in the same places. Sadly, it no
longer

does, so migrants from GNOME have some work to do as soon as
they

start using it, rearranging it to the way that they want.)



Some will go to GNOME 3 running in Fallback Mode, but I think
that

will disappear in a release or two, maybe in GNOME 3.4 next
April. I

have read a news story about increasing 2D support in GNOME
Shell, but

I can't find it now. Once GNOME Shell can run without 3D
acceleration

(as Unity-2D does) then I think Fallback Mode will disappear.



So unless the Unity-to-GNOME-3 migrants decide they like GNOME
Shell -

unlikely, if they hate Unity that much - then even they might
well end

up on Xfce, I suspect.




Yeah I agree, but since the Gnome users are using it since
when they are using Ubuntu (true, for at least me), so they
have fallen in love with it (at least me). On the contrary,
this declaration never implies that Unity is bad or not good.
As I commented (regarding Unity problems, earlier in some
post, I guess..), since I heard some people crying for
that...., that's all! But if in case, if there were an option
to choose either from Unity or Gnome, I bet I would have gone
with Gnome. Though this has little impact (little impact even
on home users, house wives, kids, etc..etc..), but as said
earlier, the thing was that Long Term Support should be
intact, other versions (like 11.04) is good to play with or
'ready for sudden changes'; however, at the same time, I agree
that it is just 'long term support' and this 'long term' has
inevitably an end, like any other thing.





--

Two atoms are walking along.
Suddenly, one stops. The other says, "What's
wrong?" "I've lost an
electron." "Are you sure?" "I'm positive!"






--
ubuntu-users mailing list
ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
 
Old 11-19-2011, 09:08 PM
"W. Scott Lockwood III"
 
Default My request to ubuntu developer team

No need to fork. Use Linux Mint.
*
From: ubuntu-users-bounces@lists.ubuntu.com [mailto:ubuntu-users-bounces@lists.ubuntu.com] On Behalf Of Art Edwards
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 4:07 PM
To: ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
Subject: Re: My request to ubuntu developer team
*
The problem for me is that I use the computer for real work. I know others do, but it's not even a little bit of a hobby for me. Gnome 2 had been an incredibly nice productivity tool. To me, Unity is big and dumb. It seems the world has fallen in love with tablet interfaces. I don't want a bunch of eye-candy on my desktop. Is there any chance that someone will fork gnome to serve the original geeks who grew up using linux?


On 11/17/2011 09:51 PM, R S V Reddy wrote:
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 10:08 PM, Liam Proven <lproven@gmail.com> wrote:
*
> But finally I would say that we are home users,
> we no more 'no' much of the technology under the tree but take only the shadow
> which we need. So if our tree changes, we feel some pain.
I'm afraid I don't understand this at all. Is it a translated saying
or aphorism?

By mistake, I just wrote 'no', it is in fact 'know'!
*
I have noticed that the change from GNOME 2 to Unity does seem to have
caused many people much pain, yes. Personally I find this hard to
understand, but then, Unity is much like Mac OS X and I know Macs very
well, having been a Mac user (as well as a PC and Unix one) since the
late 1980s. It is hard for me to understand how so many people can be
so inflexible that a simple rearrangement of their desktop makes them
hate the new system.

I think that the best thing that could come out of it is lots of new
users for Xubuntu and Xfce, which is not as sophisticated as GNOME but
can be made to look and work very much like it.
(A few versions ago, the Xubuntu desktop looked almost exactly like
GNOME, with the same panels in the same places. Sadly, it no longer
does, so migrants from GNOME have some work to do as soon as they
start using it, rearranging it to the way that they want.)

Some will go to GNOME 3 running in Fallback Mode, but I think that
will disappear in a release or two, maybe in GNOME 3.4 next April. I
have read a news story about increasing 2D support in GNOME Shell, but
I can't find it now. Once GNOME Shell can run without 3D acceleration
(as Unity-2D does) then I think Fallback Mode will disappear.

So unless the Unity-to-GNOME-3 migrants decide they like GNOME Shell -
unlikely, if they hate Unity that much - then even they might well end
up on Xfce, I suspect.

Yeah I agree, but since the Gnome users are using it since when they are using Ubuntu (true, for at least me), so they have fallen in love with it (at least me). On the contrary, this declaration never implies that Unity is bad or not good. As I commented (regarding Unity problems, earlier in some post, I guess..), since I heard some people crying for that...., that's all! But if in case, if there were an option to choose either from Unity or Gnome, I bet I would have gone with Gnome. Though this has little impact (little impact even on home users, house wives, kids, etc..etc..), but as said earlier, the thing was that Long Term Support should be intact, other versions (like 11.04) is good to play with or 'ready for sudden changes'; however, at the same time, I agree that it is just 'long term support' and this 'long term' has inevitably an end, like any other thing.

--
Two atoms are walking along. Suddenly, one stops. The other says, "What's
wrong?" "I've lost an electron." "Are you sure?" "I'm positive!"
*
--
ubuntu-users mailing list
ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
 
Old 11-19-2011, 09:40 PM
"Pongo A. Pan"
 
Default My request to ubuntu developer team

On Sat, 2011-11-19 at 16:08 -0600, W. Scott Lockwood III wrote:
> No need to fork. Use Linux Mint.
>
>
Art Edwards (Quoted by Lockwood):
>
> The problem for me is that I use the computer for real work. I know others
> do, but it's not even a little bit of a hobby for me. Gnome 2 had been an
> incredibly nice productivity tool. To me, Unity is big and dumb. It seems
> the world has fallen in love with tablet interfaces. I don't want a bunch of
> eye-candy on my desktop. Is there any chance that someone will fork gnome to
> serve the original geeks who grew up using linux?
>

<Much quoted material that we've all read before deleted>

1. Please bottom (or interleave) post on this list and trim out old
material judiciously. It just makes it easier to follow the conversation
if you do and is the accepted standard here, besides being kinder to the
archives.

2. Linux Mint is using an only slightly modified gnome-shell for its
main branch. If you don't like gnome-shell, you will not like Mint 12.
If you hate Unity, you probably will not like gnome-shell either since
they aren't all that different. I can't decide which I like better; I'm
productive and happy using either.

3. The attempt to save gnome 2 with the MATE fork has many problems and
it will likely go the way of the Trinity Project that was supposed to
rescue KDE 3.5. I found the MATE version of Mint 12 RC unusable, and
Clem admits that it will likely have many problems even after the
official release. He doesn't sound all that happy about the whole MATE
business on his blog but is trying hard to accommodate the many people
who want a gnome 2 version of Mint.

4. Gnome 2 was abandoned by its developers because it was growing
unwieldy and hard to maintain. It is effectively dead. In less than 18
months the last Ubuntu and Mint LTS versions which used gnome 2 will
fall off maintenance. Nothing new will be developed for gnome 2, and
applications aimed at gnome 3 will not work on it because of naming
conflicts.

5. Michael Jackson and gnome 2 are still dead, and pretty soon the
traditional desktop computer will be too for most users. Get over it.
Use XFCE, KDE or LXDE, all of which are old fashioned desktops during
the transition if you must: stop whining.

Grumpily,


--
pongo pan
Sat, 19 Nov 2011 14:36:44 -0800
Aurelius up 1:02, 1 user, load average: 0.08, 0.04, 0.05
Linux 3.0.0-12-generic
Linux Mint 12 Lisa, GNOME Shell 3.2.



--
ubuntu-users mailing list
ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
 
Old 11-19-2011, 11:51 PM
Art Edwards
 
Default My request to ubuntu developer team

On 11/19/2011 03:40 PM, Pongo A. Pan wrote:
> On Sat, 2011-11-19 at 16:08 -0600, W. Scott Lockwood III wrote:
>> No need to fork. Use Linux Mint.
>>
>>
> Art Edwards (Quoted by Lockwood):
>> The problem for me is that I use the computer for real work. I know others
>> do, but it's not even a little bit of a hobby for me. Gnome 2 had been an
>> incredibly nice productivity tool. To me, Unity is big and dumb. It seems
>> the world has fallen in love with tablet interfaces. I don't want a bunch of
>> eye-candy on my desktop. Is there any chance that someone will fork gnome to
>> serve the original geeks who grew up using linux?
>>
> <Much quoted material that we've all read before deleted>
>
> 1. Please bottom (or interleave) post on this list and trim out old
> material judiciously. It just makes it easier to follow the conversation
> if you do and is the accepted standard here, besides being kinder to the
> archives.
>
> 2. Linux Mint is using an only slightly modified gnome-shell for its
> main branch. If you don't like gnome-shell, you will not like Mint 12.
> If you hate Unity, you probably will not like gnome-shell either since
> they aren't all that different. I can't decide which I like better; I'm
> productive and happy using either.
I agree that gnome-shell is a Unity look-alike. Very disappointing.
> 3. The attempt to save gnome 2 with the MATE fork has many problems and
> it will likely go the way of the Trinity Project that was supposed to
> rescue KDE 3.5. I found the MATE version of Mint 12 RC unusable, and
> Clem admits that it will likely have many problems even after the
> official release. He doesn't sound all that happy about the whole MATE
> business on his blog but is trying hard to accommodate the many people
> who want a gnome 2 version of Mint.
3a. I just looked at the MATE forum. If there were two of me, one would
try to help. Over the next 18 months, I will keep an eye on Linux Mint.
> 4. Gnome 2 was abandoned by its developers because it was growing
> unwieldy and hard to maintain. It is effectively dead. In less than 18
> months the last Ubuntu and Mint LTS versions which used gnome 2 will
> fall off maintenance. Nothing new will be developed for gnome 2, and
> applications aimed at gnome 3 will not work on it because of naming
> conflicts.
>
> 5. Michael Jackson and gnome 2 are still dead, and pretty soon the
> traditional desktop computer will be too for most users. Get over it.
> Use XFCE, KDE or LXDE, all of which are old fashioned desktops during
> the transition if you must: stop whining.
On a personal level, losing gnome will be much worse than losing M. J. I
have tried KDE several times in the past. Nice looking, but I always
ended up back at gnome. When the need arises, I will look at the other
desktops, unless MATE succeeds. We'll see what happens in eighteen months.
> Grumpily,
>
>


--
ubuntu-users mailing list
ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
 
Old 11-20-2011, 12:30 AM
Avi Greenbury
 
Default My request to ubuntu developer team

W. Scott Lockwood III wrote:

> No need to fork. Use Linux Mint.

It makes little sense to switch distro just because you disagree with
the new DE on your current one. Presumably people chose Ubuntu for
reasons other than its use of Gnome 2 (especially given that pretty
much every other distro also used Gnome 2).

And there *is* a need to fork if what you want is the old Gnome 2.0.
It's no longer maintained by the Gnome foundation so any ongoing
maintenance will almost by definition be a fork.

If what you want is something like Gnome 2.0, XFCE does a pretty good
impersonation, and is worth a go. Install the package xubuntu-desktop
to give it a go without hosing anything else.

--
Avi

--
ubuntu-users mailing list
ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
 
Old 11-20-2011, 01:39 AM
Alan McKay
 
Default My request to ubuntu developer team

Amen to that!

It was bad enough in 11.04 to make Unity the default, but at least
they put the classic version on there to select. For 11.11 I had to
go figure out a way to add the Classic interface.

Incidentally, all the options they did give me I tried, and they were
all buggy as hell on my relatively new ASUS box and caused frequent
periods of 10 second hangs on the machine. But they went away when I
switched to Classic.

If Mint gets rid of this then I'm gone from Ubuntu ...

--
“Don't eat anything you've ever seen advertised on TV”
* * * ** - Michael Pollan, author of "In Defense of Food"

--
ubuntu-users mailing list
ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
 
Old 11-20-2011, 01:52 AM
scott
 
Default My request to ubuntu developer team

On 11/19/2011 09:39 PM, Alan McKay wrote:

Amen to that!

It was bad enough in 11.04 to make Unity the default, but at least
they put the classic version on there to select. For 11.11 I had to
go figure out a way to add the Classic interface.

Incidentally, all the options they did give me I tried, and they were
all buggy as hell on my relatively new ASUS box and caused frequent
periods of 10 second hangs on the machine. But they went away when I
switched to Classic.

If Mint gets rid of this then I'm gone from Ubuntu ...

I haven't left 10.10 besides in a VM. I've been exploring my options
and it's beginning to look like it's gonna have to be a roll-your-own or
join a dev team and submit patches for what I think will make it better.

We're all welcome to do that, you know.

Scott

--
ubuntu-users mailing list
ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
 
Old 11-20-2011, 02:32 AM
R Kimber
 
Default My request to ubuntu developer team

On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 15:07:05 -0700
Art Edwards wrote:

> The problem for me is that I use the computer for real work. I know
> others do, but it's not even a little bit of a hobby for me. Gnome 2 had
> been an incredibly nice productivity tool. To me, Unity is big and dumb.
> It seems the world has fallen in love with tablet interfaces. I don't
> want a bunch of eye-candy on my desktop. Is there any chance that
> someone will fork gnome to serve the original geeks who grew up using
> linux?

Use Xubuntu

- Richard
--
Richard Kimber
Political Science Resources
http://www.PoliticsResources.net/

--
ubuntu-users mailing list
ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
 
Old 11-20-2011, 03:22 AM
Avi Greenbury
 
Default My request to ubuntu developer team

Alan McKay wrote:

> Incidentally, all the options they did give me I tried, and they were
> all buggy as hell on my relatively new ASUS box and caused frequent
> periods of 10 second hangs on the machine.

Did you file any bugs?

> If Mint gets rid of this then I'm gone from Ubuntu ...

By most accounts, mint maintains Gnome 2.x for at least it's next
release, but it's unclear precisely what it's going to do, or how well,
for the one after. Everyone banking on Gnome 2.x is going to hit the
same problem - that the Gnome foundation has stopped maintaining it.

Perhaps someone will pick it up and it wont fall to the same fate as
the KDE 3.x project of the same nature did.

Personally, if I really wanted Gnome 2.0 and rather liked Ubuntu, I'd
give XFCE a go - it's one package (xubuntu-desktop) away, and doesn't
require that you change anything. It's not really Gnome 2.0, but it
shares a lot of the characteristics and behaviour of it. Probably worth
a pop.


--
Avi

--
ubuntu-users mailing list
ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
 
Old 11-20-2011, 01:55 PM
Liam Proven
 
Default My request to ubuntu developer team

On 19 November 2011 22:40, Pongo A. Pan <pongo_pan@fastmail.us> wrote:
> On Sat, 2011-11-19 at 16:08 -0600, W. Scott Lockwood III wrote:
>> No need to fork. Use Linux Mint.
>>
>>
> Art Edwards (Quoted by Lockwood):
>>
>> The problem for me is that I use the computer for real work. I know others
>> do, but it's not even a little bit of a hobby for me. Gnome 2 had been an
>> incredibly nice productivity tool. To me, Unity is big and dumb. It seems
>> the world has fallen in love with tablet interfaces. I don't want a bunch of
>> eye-candy on my desktop. Is there any chance that someone will fork gnome to
>> serve the original geeks who grew up using linux?
>>
>
> <Much quoted material that we've all read before deleted>
>
> 1. Please bottom (or interleave) post on this list and trim out old
> material judiciously. It just makes it easier to follow the conversation
> if you do and is the accepted standard here, besides being kinder to the
> archives.
>
> 2. Linux Mint is using an only slightly modified gnome-shell for its
> main branch. *If you don't like gnome-shell, you will not like Mint 12.

ITYM Mint *13.* Mint 12 uses GNOME 2.32. It is, AFAIK, the *only*
Debian-based distro that does; Debian itself skipped from 2.30 to
including packages from 3, e.g. the terminal.


> If you hate Unity, you probably will not like gnome-shell either since
> they aren't all that different. *I can't decide which I like better; I'm
> productive and happy using either.
>
> 3. The attempt to save gnome 2 with the MATE fork has many problems and
> it will likely go the way of the Trinity Project that was supposed to
> rescue KDE 3.5. *I found the MATE version of Mint 12 RC unusable, and
> Clem admits that it will likely have many problems even after the
> official release. *He doesn't sound all that happy about the whole MATE
> business on his blog but is trying hard to accommodate the many people
> who want a gnome 2 version of Mint.
>
> 4. Gnome 2 was abandoned by its developers because it was growing
> unwieldy and hard to maintain. *It is effectively dead. *In less than 18
> months the last Ubuntu and Mint LTS versions which used gnome 2 will
> fall off maintenance. *Nothing new will be developed for gnome 2, and
> applications aimed at gnome 3 will not work on it because of naming
> conflicts.
>
> 5. Michael Jackson and gnome 2 are still dead, and pretty soon the
> traditional desktop computer will be too for most users. *Get over it.
> Use XFCE, KDE or LXDE, all of which are old fashioned desktops during
> the transition if you must: stop whining.

Excellent post, excellent comment. I wholeheartedly agree.

--
Liam Proven • Info & profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/lproven
Email: lproven@cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven@gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419
AIM/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven • MSN: lproven@hotmail.com • ICQ: 73187508

--
ubuntu-users mailing list
ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 01:56 PM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org