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Old 10-03-2011, 03:26 PM
rikona
 
Default get rid of OT

Hello Patton,

Monday, October 3, 2011, 1:41:14 AM, Patton wrote:

> On 09/29/2011 08:57 AM, rikona wrote:
>>
>> Hmmm... originally I had reservations about heavy policing, but did
>> not want to add to the already loud OT noise. But, in posting a
>> somewhat different solution, and immediately getting a flippant answer
>> or sarcasm, I can see that perhaps your approach is the only thing
>> that might work. There are clearly some folks that do NOT want a
>> solution to the OT noise.
>>

> This entire discussion presupposes that ubuntu-users is broken and
> must be fixed.

Not broken, just noisy. Perhaps what was most concerning was the
comment that it was so noisy that the list might be shut down. I, and
many others, don't want that.

> If there are 5,000 subscribers, (five THOUSAND?!?) is the list
> really broken? I find it hard to belive that so many people would
> stay subscribed to a list that was all noise with no worthwhile
> signal.

Not ALL noise, by any means. It's the signal-to-noise ratio that is of
concern. :-)

Would you favor moving an OT discussion to an OT list instead of
continuing here, to increase the S/N ratio?

email to bikeshed+subscribe@googlegroups.com

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rikona


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Old 10-03-2011, 04:31 PM
Colin Law
 
Default get rid of OT

On 3 October 2011 14:35, Billie Walsh <bilwalsh@swbell.net> wrote:
> On 10/03/2011 03:41 AM, Patton Echols wrote:
>> ...
>> This entire discussion presupposes that ubuntu-users is broken and must
>> be fixed. While there are certainly threads that go spiraling out of
>> control, even the most verbal on those threads behave well by staying in
>> the thread, making it easy to ignore.
>>
>> If there are 5,000 subscribers, (five THOUSAND?!?) is the list really
>> broken? I find it hard to belive that so many people would stay
>> subscribed to a list that was all noise with no worthwhile signal.
>>
>>
>
> I don't believe the list is "broken". I seldom post, except a bit more
> lately, but have learned a lot from just reading. I find the <Delete> button
> to come in VERY handy for most of the traffic though.

I also do not believe that the list is broken, sometimes threads go
off the rails but they are easily ignored. I started using Ubuntu a
couple of years ago and learnt a huge amount, both by asking questions
that now embarrass me when I look back and by following other threads.
I now do my best, often not too well, to help others when I think I
know an answer.

I would be very sorry to lose such a valuable resource, and do not see
that there is any reason to close it down. As posted above, if 5000
users are subscribed then how can it possibly be broken?

I also cannot understand why anyone would *want* to close it down,
what is the benefit to anyone to close it, compared to the benefit
that 5000 users get from the list?

Colin

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Old 10-04-2011, 12:39 PM
Oliver Grawert
 
Default get rid of OT

hi
Am Freitag, den 30.09.2011, 20:24 -0700 schrieb rikona:
> Hello Oliver,
>
> Friday, September 30, 2011, 5:58:59 AM, Oliver wrote:
>
> > if people think its a waste of time
>
> I think you may be misinterpreting this quite badly. As you can see
> from the current discussion, there is LOTS of interest in this topic.
> The problem is in how you are forcing people to participate. Most
> folks have a life besides sitting in front of the screen JUST when
> they MUST be there to participate.

i was commenting to liams post where he wrote:
"IRC, for example, as you repeatedly
invite us to participate in IRC meetings - is to others a tiresome,
irritating waste of time."

please dont pull my words out of context...

>
> > to show up at the only place that can make decisions about the
> > future of this list (again, no canonical involvement here...),
>
> If you want more participation [and it seems as though you really
> don't, the way it is structured] then it would be MUCH better to do
> the communication via an email list like this. Then, when someone gets
> back from a 3 day business trip [the session you insist he must attend
> took place while he was half way to Europe on an airplane], that
> person can contribute to the discussion. If you do it this way, it
> would seem likely that you would get a lot more participation [which
> it seems you do not want].
why are you blaming me for an infrastrcuture i didnt set up ?
i dont want more participation and i dont want less participation.
there is a process thats in place since 7 years now (which i didnt put
in place and i find it pretty offending that you accuse me for its
failures or that i would push anyone to anything).
if people want to express interest they have to show up at the place
where they can be seen, very simple fact.

if your city decides to build a dump yard in your street, will you and
your neighbors sit around and moan about the fact that you cant do
anything about it because your governmental system doesnt allow you to
stop it by moaning about it to your neighbors or will you go to the next
communal meeting where the topic is being discussed to get that decision
revisited ?

>
> > then it doesn't seem to be worth at all to keep it running ...
>
> Many, including me, are reeeeeeally wanting to keep the list!!! Do you
> not get that?
sorry, but you really get offending, i'm probably one of the first 100
people that ever subscribed to this list, i'm one of the few canonical
employees and ubuntu developers still left on this list, i read it daily
and usually give support at least once or twice a week, what do you
think, do i look like someone who has any interest to shut that list
down ?

[... snipped more blames and vague assumptions ...]

> Set up a mailing list for that process...
feel free to suggest that at the next CC meeting ...


note that i wont answer any further mail followups to this mail, posts
like this make me wonder if the effort i (and others like alan or paul)
put into keeping that lists alive (which includes that i invested 30min
of my rare spare time to show up at each of the meetings discussing it)
shouldnt be left to the other one or two persons that actually try to
keep it alive in the CC meeting discussions.... being attacked rudely
based on weird assumptions isnt actually motivating ...

ciao
oli


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