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Rashkae 09-29-2011 03:23 PM

Was: Shuttleworth (SABDFL) wants to shutdown this ubuntu.user list
 
The discussion that this thread has spawned has planted this great world
changing idea in my head. This is a desperately needed improvement for
mailman.


As I understand it, a large part of the problem with moderating the
mailing list is how limited moderation is (assuming the list remains
open vs. 100% moderated.) When someone sends an ill thought message,
it's already been received by every recipient. Moderators can only
admonish the sender or ban them from posting. Either way, the thousands
of people will continue replying to the original message. The result is
that every 'bad' message will inevitably snowball.


My idea is simply that mailman requires a function to 'lock a thread'.
When invoked by a moderator, any reply to any message in that discussion
thread gets rejected. I see no reason why this would not be relatively
trivial to implement. Sure, it would be easy for people to work around,
but only a few would, and those can be dealt with directly as
misbehaving agents. I think that effectively disabling people's 'reply'
button to an unwanted discussion thread would solve 90% of the problems
with a list like this.


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Steve Flynn 09-29-2011 03:33 PM

Was: Shuttleworth (SABDFL) wants to shutdown this ubuntu.user list
 
On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 4:23 PM, Rashkae <ubuntu@tigershaunt.com> wrote:
*

My idea is simply that mailman requires a function to 'lock a thread'. *When invoked by a moderator, any reply to any message in that discussion thread gets rejected. *I see no reason why this would not be relatively trivial to implement. *Sure, it would be easy for people to work around, but only a few would, and those can be dealt with directly as misbehaving agents. *I think that effectively disabling people's 'reply' button to an unwanted discussion thread would solve 90% of the problems with a list like this.



Just last night I started digging around in*http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Mailman+3.0*to see what new features were planned for implementation in MailMan 3 to see if anything like this was already being coded up.


I can't see anything like this in the 2.2 or 3 documents I found last night.
From a brief (and I mean 10 second) think about it, it's should be easy to mark a message as mute, and then discard any new mail coming in which has this message id in the refers field of the message header.


I was planning on seeing how I could pull the python source repo this evening, but as the sun is out, I've elected that the pub is a far more interesting bet. Might have a dig around this weekend.

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When one person suffers from a delusion it is insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion.


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Billie Walsh 09-29-2011 06:31 PM

Was: Shuttleworth (SABDFL) wants to shutdown this ubuntu.user list
 
On 09/29/2011 10:23 AM, Rashkae wrote:

The discussion that this thread has spawned has planted this great world
changing idea in my head. This is a desperately needed improvement for
mailman.

As I understand it, a large part of the problem with moderating the
mailing list is how limited moderation is (assuming the list remains
open vs. 100% moderated.) When someone sends an ill thought message,
it's already been received by every recipient. Moderators can only
admonish the sender or ban them from posting. Either way, the thousands
of people will continue replying to the original message. The result is
that every 'bad' message will inevitably snowball.

My idea is simply that mailman requires a function to 'lock a thread'.
When invoked by a moderator, any reply to any message in that discussion
thread gets rejected. I see no reason why this would not be relatively
trivial to implement. Sure, it would be easy for people to work around,
but only a few would, and those can be dealt with directly as
misbehaving agents. I think that effectively disabling people's 'reply'
button to an unwanted discussion thread would solve 90% of the problems
with a list like this.



Well, if some people would refrain from just post post POST all the
time, and just keep making things worse, it would help. The list
performs a much needed function. BUT, when someone posts a question only
the first three or four replies are somewhat worthwhile and on topic.
From that point on the discussion devolves into stupidity. There are
some people on the list that just *HAVE* to have the last word. They
compete to see who can hang on longest.


I manage a couple lists on Mailman and the options do rather suck. And,
yes, if asked I would be willing to help with the list.


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Liberty is a well-armed lamb." - Benjamin Franklin -


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"Amedee Van Gasse" 09-30-2011 03:28 PM

Was: Shuttleworth (SABDFL) wants to shutdown this ubuntu.user list
 
On Thu, September 29, 2011 17:23, Rashkae wrote:

> My idea is simply that mailman requires a function to 'lock a thread'.
> When invoked by a moderator, any reply to any message in that discussion
> thread gets rejected. I see no reason why this would not be relatively
> trivial to implement. Sure, it would be easy for people to work around,
> but only a few would, and those can be dealt with directly as
> misbehaving agents. I think that effectively disabling people's 'reply'
> button to an unwanted discussion thread would solve 90% of the problems
> with a list like this.

Due to the nature of SMTP (SIMPLE mail transfer protocol), this would be
(almost) impossible to implement.


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"Kevin O'Gorman" 09-30-2011 03:38 PM

Was: Shuttleworth (SABDFL) wants to shutdown this ubuntu.user list
 
On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 8:28 AM, Amedee Van Gasse <amedee-ubuntu@amedee.be> wrote:

On Thu, September 29, 2011 17:23, Rashkae wrote:



> My idea is simply that mailman requires a function to 'lock a thread'.

> When invoked by a moderator, any reply to any message in that discussion

> thread gets rejected. *I see no reason why this would not be relatively

> trivial to implement. *Sure, it would be easy for people to work around,

> but only a few would, and those can be dealt with directly as

> misbehaving agents. *I think that effectively disabling people's 'reply'

> button to an unwanted discussion thread would solve 90% of the problems

> with a list like this.



Due to the nature of SMTP (SIMPLE mail transfer protocol), this would be

(almost) impossible to implement.


There's a feature similar to this on Google Groups, and I like it a lot.* That one actually works
on new accounts.* In the groups I manage, each new member is set on moderation status,
so that I have to approve or reject their messages.* As it works for me, if they never post

there's no problem.* If their first post is reasonable, I remove the moderation.* I can restore
the moderation or ban the user for future infractions, but I've never had to.* In practice, this
filters out the folks who join just to spam the group.* It's low maintenance for me because

I get an email whenever I have to take action, and this is just for each user's first post.* When
there are no first posts, I don't even have to think about it.* The result for members is also
good: they haven't seen spam in years.


It would be interesting to see if the list could have a selective "hold and moderate" feature
like this.

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Jacob Mansfield 09-30-2011 03:45 PM

Was: Shuttleworth (SABDFL) wants to shutdown this ubuntu.user list
 
On 30 Sep 2011, at 16:38, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
> It would be interesting to see if the list could have a selective "hold and moderate" feature
> like this.

as this is a MailMan list, this could easily be implemented by changing just one setting. might be worth a try?

regards,
Jacob Mansfield
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"Amedee Van Gasse" 09-30-2011 03:45 PM

Was: Shuttleworth (SABDFL) wants to shutdown this ubuntu.user list
 
On Fri, September 30, 2011 17:38, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 8:28 AM, Amedee Van Gasse
> <amedee-ubuntu@amedee.be>wrote:
>
>> On Thu, September 29, 2011 17:23, Rashkae wrote:
>>
>> > My idea is simply that mailman requires a function to 'lock a thread'.
>> > When invoked by a moderator, any reply to any message in that
>> discussion
>> > thread gets rejected. I see no reason why this would not be
>> relatively
>> > trivial to implement. Sure, it would be easy for people to work
>> around,
>> > but only a few would, and those can be dealt with directly as
>> > misbehaving agents. I think that effectively disabling people's
>> 'reply'
>> > button to an unwanted discussion thread would solve 90% of the
>> problems
>> > with a list like this.
>>
>> Due to the nature of SMTP (SIMPLE mail transfer protocol), this would be
>> (almost) impossible to implement.
>>
>> There's a feature similar to this on Google Groups, and I like it a lot.
> That one actually works
> on new accounts. In the groups I manage, each new member is set on
> moderation status,
> so that I have to approve or reject their messages. As it works for me,
> if
> they never post
> there's no problem. If their first post is reasonable, I remove the
> moderation. I can restore
> the moderation or ban the user for future infractions, but I've never had
> to. In practice, this
> filters out the folks who join just to spam the group. It's low
> maintenance
> for me because
> I get an email whenever I have to take action, and this is just for each
> user's first post. When
> there are no first posts, I don't even have to think about it. The result
> for members is also
> good: they haven't seen spam in years.
>
> It would be interesting to see if the list could have a selective "hold
> and
> moderate" feature
> like this.

I'm sorry, but the feature that you describe in great detail (and I know
about it, I have run mailman lists in the past) is totally different from
the feature that the OP requested.


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"Kevin O'Gorman" 09-30-2011 03:54 PM

Was: Shuttleworth (SABDFL) wants to shutdown this ubuntu.user list
 
On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 8:45 AM, Jacob Mansfield <cyberjacob@gmail.com> wrote:

On 30 Sep 2011, at 16:38, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:

> It would be interesting to see if the list could have a selective "hold and moderate" feature

> like this.



as this is a MailMan list, this could easily be implemented by changing just one setting. might be worth a try?


Is it?* To make this work, selectivity is the key.* It would be wonderful if mailman could select either users or
threads for this purpose, and if it were easy to edit the selections.

I've not used mailman in about a decade.* Is it up to this?


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Jacob Mansfield 09-30-2011 03:59 PM

Was: Shuttleworth (SABDFL) wants to shutdown this ubuntu.user list
 
On 30 Sep 2011, at 16:54, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 8:45 AM, Jacob Mansfield <cyberjacob@gmail.com> wrote:

On 30 Sep 2011, at 16:38, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:

> It would be interesting to see if the list could have a selective "hold and moderate" feature

> like this.



as this is a MailMan list, this could easily be implemented by changing just one setting. might be worth a try?


Is it?* To make this work, selectivity is the key.* It would be wonderful if mailman could select either users or
threads for this purpose, and if it were easy to edit the selections.

I've not used mailman in about a decade.* Is it up to this?


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It can be applied to new users, that their posts are under moderation, and thus have to be reviewed by an admin, by default. it'd be a lot of work to start with, but non-new members could also have this set to review everybody
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"Amedee Van Gasse" 09-30-2011 07:23 PM

Was: Shuttleworth (SABDFL) wants to shutdown this ubuntu.user list
 
On Fri, September 30, 2011 17:59, Jacob Mansfield wrote:
> On 30 Sep 2011, at 16:54, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
>> On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 8:45 AM, Jacob Mansfield <cyberjacob@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> On 30 Sep 2011, at 16:38, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
>> > It would be interesting to see if the list could have a selective
>> "hold and moderate" feature
>> > like this.
>>
>> as this is a MailMan list, this could easily be implemented by changing
>> just one setting. might be worth a try?
>>
>> Is it? To make this work, selectivity is the key. It would be
>> wonderful if mailman could select either users or
>> threads for this purpose, and if it were easy to edit the selections.
>>
>> I've not used mailman in about a decade. Is it up to this?
>>
>> --
>> Kevin O'Gorman, PhD

Kevin,
Your signature separator is broken. It is "--" but it should be "-- ".

>> --
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>> ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
>
> It can be applied to new users, that their posts are under moderation, and
> thus have to be reviewed by an admin, by default. it'd be a lot of work to
> start with, but non-new members could also have this set to review
> everybody

This is not the feature that the topic starter requested. So you're
actually going on a tangent in a thread that was already off topic.


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