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Old 09-29-2011, 08:07 AM
Nicolas Kovacs
 
Default Shuttleworth (SABDFL) wants to shutdown this ubuntu.user list

Le 29/09/2011 09:39, Ric Moore a crit :


I whacked KDE off of my machine as it ate too many resources running
daemons I couldn't turn off.


Kubuntu 11.04 - with KDE 4.6.5 from PPA - runs just fine on one of my
sandbox machines, a 2.4 GHz PIV bought in 2003 with 512 MB RAM. Of
course, YMMV.


Niki
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Old 09-29-2011, 08:11 AM
"Sharl.Jimh.Tsin"
 
Default Shuttleworth (SABDFL) wants to shutdown this ubuntu.user list

在 2011-09-29四的 17:26 +1000,Basil Chupin写道:
> On 29/09/11 16:23, Ric Moore wrote:
> > On 09/28/2011 11:13 PM, Sharl.Jimh.Tsin wrote:
> >> 在 2011-09-28三的 17:48 -0700,NoOpå*™é“:
> >>> Culled from the recent threads via Alan Pope regarding '[Admin]
> >>> Additional moderator':
> >>>
> >>> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/09/20/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t11:00
> >>> Shuttleworth states that they should just shut the Ubuntu users list
> >>> down (Mark Shuttleworth is 'sabdfl'[1]:
> >>> :
> >>> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/09/20/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t11:10
> >>> [aiee, we should just shut that baby down]
> >>> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/09/20/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t11:44
> >>> [i'm happy to take the shutdown bullets on -users]
> >>> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/09/20/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t11:45
> >>> [even if it's of the 'last chance, fred's agreed to moderate, if (s)he
> >>> gives up, we shut down the list']
> >>>
> >>> Given the past results from the Sounder list I reckon that this list is
> >>> probably on it's last legs (IMO). And before anyone here ask: no I
> >>> don't
> >>> plan to volunteer to be a moderator... I get enough flack already for
> >>> being a quasi-listmom on occasion.
> >>>
> >>> So if any of you wish to object to the benevolent founder comments a
> >>> the
> >>> last Community Council meeting, you can login to the upcoming one to
> >>> voice your opinion:
> >>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
> >>> "The next meeting is scheduled for 4th October 2011, 21:00 UTC and will
> >>> be held in #ubuntu-meeting on irc.ubuntu.com."
> >>> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20111004T21
> >>>
> >>> Have at it& good luck. I reckon that I'll start spending more time on
> >>> non-Ubuntu lists& newsgroups.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> [1]
> >>> http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/governance
> >>> <quote>
> >>> SABDFL
> >>>
> >>> This is not a democracy, it's a meritocracy. We try to operate more on
> >>> consensus than on votes, seeking agreement from the people who will
> >>> have
> >>> to do the work. Mark Shuttleworth, as self-appointed benevolent
> >>> dictator
> >>> for life (SABDFL), plays a happily undemocratic role as sponsor of the
> >>> project. He has the ability, with regard to Canonical employees, to ask
> >>> people to work on specific projects, specific feature goals and
> >>> specific
> >>> bugs.
> >>>
> >>> He also has a casting vote on the Technical Board and Community
> >>> Council,
> >>> should it come to a vote. This capacity is not used lightly. The
> >>> community functions best when it can reach broad consensus about a way
> >>> forward. However, it is not uncommon in the open-source world for there
> >>> to be multiple good arguments, no clear consensus, and for arguments to
> >>> divide communities rather than enrich them. The argument absorbs the
> >>> energy that might otherwise have gone towards the creation of a
> >>> solution. In many cases, there is no one 'right' answer, and what is
> >>> needed is a decision more than a debate. The sabdfl acts to provide
> >>> clear leadership on difficult issues, and set the pace for the project.
> >>> </quote>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> that's bad.
> >
> > That just means that in the end, it's his toys and he can go home with
> > 'em. I can buy that. I personally think he's making a very bad
> > BUSINESS decision though. ALL of his users can't be gearheads. If I
> > had my way about it, he'd have over 3 million inmates as new users...
> > try telling them they're not valued. <chuckles> I can see it now... oh
> > hell.
> >
> > Maybe we should just fork and call it "Crowbar Linux".
> >
> > "Hack our site, we won't snitch.
> > We'll find you and we'll break your knees with a crowbar."
> >
> > Heh! That has a certain éclat.
> >
> > My point is that if Ubuntu doesn't attract "others" then we're not in
> > the thick of the Bazaar. Instead, we're in the Cathedral. If that is
> > where Mark wants to be, then I have nothing but pity for him, as he
> > will at some point realize that a terrible mistake in judgment has
> > overtaken him. It happens to the best of us, but getting back towards
> > redemption from our mistakes is such a bitch, best to be avoided in
> > the first place ...if we're not to hardheaded to listen to others.
> > It's a tricky world out there. Ric
>
> OK, one final post in contradiction to what I wrote in another thread a
> few minutes ago.
>
> *WHAT* exactly is so damn special about ubuntu that so much attention is
> being given it, and someone like yourself (and not meaning for you take
> offence at what I say) have to write the above?
>
> ubuntu is nothing more than another Linux distro and which is now in the
> process of going belly-up.
>
> There is NOTHING special about it.
>
> Whatever "specialty" characteristics it may have or may have had are
> only those in the minds of those who use it and who keep pushing it akin
> to the religious zealots who push their religious beliefs.
>
> Please point to me which other Linux distro cannot provide the ease of
> use and features which ubuntu now provides?
>
> "Ah", you now say. "but it has Unity and it has [a castrated version of]
> gnome!".
>
> That's it?!
>
> The Linux distros are an incestuous family. As it now happens, ubuntu is
> now producing a very deformed offspring.
>
> BC
>

but In drivers of device,ubuntu is better indeed to the others GNU/Linux
distros, isn't it?

--
Best regards,
Sharl.Jimh.Tsin (From China **Obviously Taiwan INCLUDED**)

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Old 09-29-2011, 08:37 AM
Mihamina Rakotomandimby
 
Default Shuttleworth (SABDFL) wants to shutdown this ubuntu.user list

On 09/29/2011 10:04 AM, Nicolas Kovacs wrote:

Communication is vital for me. The docs are quite good (online server
guide), but a place where I can meet fellow professionals is a vital
source of information. This mailing list is such a place. So if I
understand correctly, this means of communication is soon coming to an
end. Correct me if I'm wrong.


I think you're wrong.
Let's just build-up a new Google Group and we're done!

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Old 09-29-2011, 08:44 AM
Mihamina Rakotomandimby
 
Default Shuttleworth (SABDFL) wants to shutdown this ubuntu.user list

On 09/29/2011 03:48 AM, NoOp wrote:

http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/09/20/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t11:00
Shuttleworth states that they should just shut the Ubuntu users list
down (Mark Shuttleworth is 'sabdfl'[1]:



We can be faster than one man.
Let's subscribe and use Group
http://groups.google.com/group/ubuntu-list

Current email address:
ubuntu-list@googlegroups.com

Dare?

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Old 09-29-2011, 01:01 PM
Verde Denim
 
Default Shuttleworth (SABDFL) wants to shutdown this ubuntu.user list

On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 4:44 AM, Mihamina Rakotomandimby <mihamina@rktmb.org> wrote:

On 09/29/2011 03:48 AM, NoOp wrote:


http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/09/20/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t11:00

Shuttleworth states that they should just shut the Ubuntu users list

down (Mark Shuttleworth is 'sabdfl'[1]:






We can be faster than one man.

Let's subscribe and use Group

http://groups.google.com/group/ubuntu-list



Current email address:

ubuntu-list@googlegroups.com



Dare?


I have always very much appreciated the suggestions, advise, and even a few reprimands from the knowledgeable members of this forum. Yes, there are people that just want to hijack threads to meet a personal agenda, but I've learned to ignore them. I agree with those that think that Canonical is making an error in judgement at entertaining the closing of this list, but in reading these recent threads on the topic, wondered - why don't we (the community of users who really _use_ this list for its intended purpose) simply take it somewhere else? Is Google groups a viable option? What about a hosted forum (I'm a [paid] supporting member of two other forums that are moderated and seem to run quite well). Do the members here need to have Canonical's blessing to run such a group/forum? I for one would feel somewhat lost without this list (although I'm sure the resolution to most problems could/would be found elsewhere), but the technical issues aren't the only reason for my being on this list. I learn from many of the threads, and find that many others do as well. I would hope that Canonical would see that. If they don't, I'm ok with the list just relocating off Canonical's universe to another location, but it would be sad to see it happen. If the support for the distro falls apart, I suspect that it won't be long before I and (I would guess) many others would be looking into an alternate distribution of Linux to run their systems from. I've enjoyed running Ubuntu since version 4, but without support for any product, current users (not experts mind you) will migrate elsewhere, and new users will simply stop coming, relegating Ubuntu to the equivalent of the elephant graveyard.



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Old 09-29-2011, 01:31 PM
"compdoc"
 
Default Shuttleworth (SABDFL) wants to shutdown this ubuntu.user list

>We can be faster than one man.
>Let's subscribe and use Group
>http://groups.google.com/group/ubuntu-list


The current Ubuntu mailing list is made public so that anyone searching for
answers can find them.

At first glance, with the google group, it seems only members can see the
posts. That would make it less useful...




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Old 09-29-2011, 01:48 PM
J
 
Default Shuttleworth (SABDFL) wants to shutdown this ubuntu.user list

On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 03:04, Nicolas Kovacs <info@microlinux.fr> wrote:
> Le 29/09/2011 02:48, NoOp a crit :
>>
>> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/09/20/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t11:00
>> Shuttleworth states that they should just shut the Ubuntu users list
>> down
>
> I'm an Austrian IT professional living and working in South France. My
> company provides 100% GNU/Linux and FOSS solutions for clients like small
> town halls and public libraries, schools and the likes. I'm mainly working
> with CentOS and Slackware, but recently I've thought of giving Ubuntu a go,
> more exactly 10.04 LTS on servers and Kubuntu 11.04 on desktops.
>
> Communication is vital for me. The docs are quite good (online server
> guide), but a place where I can meet fellow professionals is a vital source
> of information. This mailing list is such a place. So if I understand
> correctly, this means of communication is soon coming to an end. Correct me
> if I'm wrong.
>
> Cheers from the sunny South of France,
>
> Niki Kovacs

To avoid dragging you further into the rabbit hole this discussion has
become, there are no current plans to shut this list down, regardless
of what the conspiracy theorists among us may think. Has shutting
this list down been discussed? Yes, and incredibly distracting,
lengthy arguments full of vitriol like this one are the reason that
discussion has come up. Is it happening today, tomorrow or next week?
No. Next month? Maybe, if the increased amount of off-topic threads
doesn't normalize. Is this list the only lines of communication? No.

There are also forums, other mailing lists, Ask Ubuntu, etc:

http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community
http://askubuntu.com/

If you want to talk to someone in real time (including many of the
developers of various bits of Ubuntu, there are many #ubuntu-*
channels on Freenode IRC.

http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/chat

Since you mentioned this from a professional standpoint, Canonical
sells support (just like Red Hat, Novell and others do) here:

http://www.canonical.com/enterprise-services/ubuntu-advantage

The point is, there are LOTS of communication avenues for Ubuntu. The
ones I've pointed out are some of the "official" ones, and there are
plenty more in places like Google Groups, Yahoo Groups, and various
other unofficial community forums and lists.

So Communication to get help with problems or answers to your
questions is not a problem. This list being useful because of the
high signal to noise ratio is a problem. Personally, I'd prefer to
see this list remain. I don't use forums or "pull" media if I can
help it. If I had to use a forum for every interest or avenue of
communication that I needed or wanted, I'd have a bookmark list of
literally hundreds of forums that I'd have to visit individually to
get the information I want. Mailing lists are more of a "pull" in
that the data comes to me, aggregated by my mail clients (either
Thunderbird or GMail). So I have only one place I need to post a
message, one place to view replies.

So I'm a huge fan of mailing lists, and I've been on them for years
helping people solve their Linux issues when I can, getting help for
my own questions when I need to. I do NOT use forums for anything
beyond occasional hobby related interests because I simply don't have
enough time to keep up with forums.

Anyway, I hope that the links above help, and don't worry about this
list being closed down for now... until there's an official
announcement that the decision has been made, everything else is just
hearsay, guesses and a healthy dose of "OMG The people who run these
lists and let me use them for free won't let me do anything I bloody
well please on them! how dare they!!"

Cheers

Jeff

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Old 09-29-2011, 02:18 PM
Nicolas Kovacs
 
Default Shuttleworth (SABDFL) wants to shutdown this ubuntu.user list

Le 29/09/2011 15:48, J a crit :

Anyway, I hope that the links above help, and don't worry about this
list being closed down for now...


OK, thanks for the clarification. I know there are other channels of
communication, but like you, I favor mailing lists for efficient
troubleshooting.


Cheers from South France,

Niki Kovacs
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Old 09-29-2011, 02:40 PM
J
 
Default Shuttleworth (SABDFL) wants to shutdown this ubuntu.user list

On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 09:48, J <dreadpiratejeff@gmail.com> wrote:

> high signal to noise ratio is a problem. *Personally, I'd prefer to
> see this list remain. *I don't use forums or "pull" media if I can
> help it. *If I had to use a forum for every interest or avenue of
> communication that I needed or wanted, I'd have a bookmark list of
> literally hundreds of forums that I'd have to visit individually to
> get the information I want. *Mailing lists are more of a "pull" in
> that the data comes to me, aggregated by my mail clients (either
> Thunderbird or GMail). *So I have only one place I need to post a
> message, one place to view replies.

Bah, that was supposed to say "Mailing lists are more of a "push" in
that the data comes to me..."

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Old 09-29-2011, 03:22 PM
rikona
 
Default Shuttleworth (SABDFL) wants to shutdown this ubuntu.user list

Hello Mihamina,

Thursday, September 29, 2011, 1:37:55 AM, Mihamina wrote:

> On 09/29/2011 10:04 AM, Nicolas Kovacs wrote:
>> Communication is vital for me. The docs are quite good (online server
>> guide), but a place where I can meet fellow professionals is a vital
>> source of information. This mailing list is such a place. So if I
>> understand correctly, this means of communication is soon coming to an
>> end. Correct me if I'm wrong.

> I think you're wrong.
> Let's just build-up a new Google Group and we're done!

NO, no NO! We need a MAILING LIST - NOT a forum. The bikeshed forum is
a failure - don't start another one.

--

rikona


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