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Old 09-27-2011, 04:46 AM
Ric Moore
 
Default Reengineering the Windows boot experience - Building Windows 8

On 09/27/2011 12:27 AM, Fred A. Miller wrote:

This answers some questions about BIOS based boxen and 'Bloze 8.

Fred

Windows 8 will also enter the market in a time when the industry is
shifting to the Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) for BIOS on
all new client systems. We will continue to support the legacy BIOS
interface, but machines using the UEFI interface will have significantly
richer capabilities. For instance, UEFI systems can render rich
graphical experiences in native resolution via the Graphic Output
Protocol (GOP) driver. With UEFI, the OS can finally communicate with
boot firmware in a standard way; this work is strongly supported by
standards work in UEFI and the TCG (Trusted Computing Group). This
enables such features as secure boot, where the OS and firmware
cooperate in creating a secure handoff mechanism. It also enables a
seamless visual experience from the time you hit the power button – one
experience owned by two distinct components.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/09/20/reengineering-the-windows-boot-experience.aspx



See? MicroSoft has again done what it has been so good at in the past,
...steal ideas from Apple. I also imagine that for those "richer
capabilities", some hardware vendors could find themselves left out in
the cold. And since "Members of the UEFI forum include Apple, IBM and
BIOS giant Phoenix Technologies as well as Microsoft. ®" then we can
guess just what players will be left alive. Got shares in AMD or nVidia?
I'd expect to see them embrace Linux as their last stronghold for
customers.


What do you see, Liam?? You're in the thick of this industry news stuff. Ric



--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html

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Old 09-27-2011, 08:58 AM
Colin Watson
 
Default Reengineering the Windows boot experience - Building Windows 8

On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 12:46:27AM -0400, Ric Moore wrote:
> See? MicroSoft has again done what it has been so good at in the
> past, ...steal ideas from Apple. I also imagine that for those
> "richer capabilities", some hardware vendors could find themselves
> left out in the cold. And since "Members of the UEFI forum include
> Apple, IBM and BIOS giant Phoenix Technologies as well as Microsoft.
> " then we can guess just what players will be left alive. Got
> shares in AMD or nVidia? I'd expect to see them embrace Linux as
> their last stronghold for customers.

You can't infer anything particular from UEFI membership, and certainly
not from an extremely abbreviated membership list posted on a blog.
http://www.uefi.org/join/list indicates that AMD and NVIDIA are both
members of UEFI; but then so are Canonical and Red Hat! (If you want to
use their mailing lists and get early access to specifications, you have
to be a member, so a pretty wide range of companies have a reason to
join.)

The UEFI specification itself lays out the mechanism for "secure boot",
but absolutely none of the policy.

--
Colin Watson [cjwatson@ubuntu.com]

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Old 09-27-2011, 09:21 AM
Avi Greenbury
 
Default Reengineering the Windows boot experience - Building Windows 8

Ric Moore wrote:
> On 09/27/2011 12:27 AM, Fred A. Miller wrote:
> > This answers some questions about BIOS based boxen and 'Bloze 8.
> >
> > Fred
> >
> > Windows 8 will also enter the market in a time when the industry is
> > shifting to the Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) for
> > BIOS on all new client systems. We will continue to support the
> > legacy BIOS interface, but machines using the UEFI interface will
> > have significantly richer capabilities. For instance, UEFI systems
> > can render rich graphical experiences in native resolution via the
> > Graphic Output Protocol (GOP) driver. With UEFI, the OS can finally
> > communicate with boot firmware in a standard way; this work is
> > strongly supported by standards work in UEFI and the TCG (Trusted
> > Computing Group). This enables such features as secure boot, where
> > the OS and firmware cooperate in creating a secure handoff
> > mechanism. It also enables a seamless visual experience from the
> > time you hit the power button – one experience owned by two
> > distinct components.
> >
> > http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/09/20/reengineering-the-windows-boot-experience.aspx
>
>
> See? MicroSoft has again done what it has been so good at in the
> past, ...steal ideas from Apple.

Are you genuinely advocating replacing the BIOS with something other
than UEFI purely to avoid having to have any sort of consistency with
Apple products? That's bonkers.

The fact that Apple have been using UEFI for a while is not a reason to
not use it; it's a reason *to* use it because it means somebody else
has already gone through the initial implementation and found all (or
most) of the problems, and that there's some degree of standardisation.

> I also imagine that for those "richer capabilities", some hardware
> vendors could find themselves left out in the cold. And since
> "Members of the UEFI forum include Apple, IBM and BIOS giant Phoenix
> Technologies as well as Microsoft. ®" then we can guess just what
> players will be left alive. Got shares in AMD or nVidia? I'd expect
> to see them embrace Linux as their last stronghold for customers.

Nobody's going to not switch to UEFI if it becomes reasonable to;
BIOSes are, in general, rubbish. The closest they appear to have had to
development since about 1986 is the addition of support for USB devices.
Machines frequently spend longer in the BIOS than booting the kernel.

--
Avi

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Old 09-28-2011, 06:05 AM
Ric Moore
 
Default Reengineering the Windows boot experience - Building Windows 8

On 09/27/2011 05:21 AM, Avi Greenbury wrote:

Ric Moore wrote:

On 09/27/2011 12:27 AM, Fred A. Miller wrote:

This answers some questions about BIOS based boxen and 'Bloze 8.

Fred

Windows 8 will also enter the market in a time when the industry is
shifting to the Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) for
BIOS on all new client systems. We will continue to support the
legacy BIOS interface, but machines using the UEFI interface will
have significantly richer capabilities. For instance, UEFI systems
can render rich graphical experiences in native resolution via the
Graphic Output Protocol (GOP) driver. With UEFI, the OS can finally
communicate with boot firmware in a standard way; this work is
strongly supported by standards work in UEFI and the TCG (Trusted
Computing Group). This enables such features as secure boot, where
the OS and firmware cooperate in creating a secure handoff
mechanism. It also enables a seamless visual experience from the
time you hit the power button – one experience owned by two
distinct components.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/09/20/reengineering-the-windows-boot-experience.aspx



See? MicroSoft has again done what it has been so good at in the
past, ...steal ideas from Apple.


Are you genuinely advocating replacing the BIOS with something other
than UEFI purely to avoid having to have any sort of consistency with
Apple products? That's bonkers.


I thought I was clear, Apple dominates THEIR market by strictly
enforcing what runs on both the hardware and software of their OS. Damn
successful at it too. Apple is the current darling of those with the
money and desire to have something really superior to Windows. They pay
through to nose to be not-Windows.


Wouldn't Windows want to capture and maintain the ~remaining market~ for
themselves ~in like manner~? They WOULDN't?? Pull my other finger. <grins>



Nobody's going to not switch to UEFI if it becomes reasonable to;
BIOSes are, in general, rubbish. The closest they appear to have had to
development since about 1986 is the addition of support for USB devices.
Machines frequently spend longer in the BIOS than booting the kernel.


No disagreement there.. but in the closet of secrets, Windows would love
to kick the stuffings out of Linux. Look at all of those server bullies
out there, kicking sand in their face, by not paying for proper network
licenses. I'm just saying that they would LOVE THAT. I've watched those
devils since MSDOS days and they aren't above playing loose when it
comes to business ethics. They bear watching. Ric



--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html

--
ubuntu-users mailing list
ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
 

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