Expressing an opinion, in life and in a mailing list, is never pathetic or
childish. Our talking about it is how we deal with it. This is how people do
this sort of thing.
If enough of us find Unity is a step backwards, then maybe something is
wrong with the direction Ubuntu is headed. If enough of us find Unity useful
or even better than gnome, then Ubuntu is going the right way.
We are after all, the users and supporters and maintainers of Ubuntu.
Shouldn't we be allowed to voice our opinions?
Without us, Ubuntu would become another abandoned fork.
Hello - unity is 'rocking' when it is functioning.
Hardware dependency is not the right way.....
my 2 cent
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05-08-2011, 10:28 AM
Chris Jones
Unity ROCKS not!!!
>
> If you only look at this list to find out if the direction of Ubuntu is
> right, you will get a wrong picture. From what I have read here during
> the last weeks, it looks like many people who don't like Unity, complain
> about it. However those who do like it, have no reason to complain and
> only a few of them take the time to write about their opinion.
> Therefore, if you only generate your statistics from the opinions raised
> on this list, you will see a huge majority of those who don't like
> Unity, even if it is a tiny minority in reality.
>
> And there have been similar situations in the past. IIRC, when pulse
> audio was the new default in Ubuntu, many people complained and only
> very few wrote that they liked it. I don't think that too many people
> left Ubuntu due to pulse audio and nowadays it just works.
Well said. +1
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05-08-2011, 02:04 PM
squareyes
Unity ROCKS not!!!
On 08/05/11 19:58, Chris Jones wrote:
If you only look at this list to find out if the direction of Ubuntu is
right, you will get a wrong picture. From what I have read here during
the last weeks, it looks like many people who don't like Unity, complain
about it. However those who do like it, have no reason to complain and
only a few of them take the time to write about their opinion.
Therefore, if you only generate your statistics from the opinions raised
on this list, you will see a huge majority of those who don't like
Unity, even if it is a tiny minority in reality.
And there have been similar situations in the past. IIRC, when pulse
audio was the new default in Ubuntu, many people complained and only
very few wrote that they liked it. I don't think that too many people
left Ubuntu due to pulse audio and nowadays it just works.
Well said. +1
Hi all,
have just installed 11.04 on an external usb hard drive (still using
10.04), looks interesting to me
things are different, only thing I can't find is I used to bypass the
trash and delete
straight out, can't find how to set that up. Apart from that it looks nice.
One question, the external drive is a normal drive in a caddy, if I were
to install it in
the box would the system still work? would save me re-installing.
With the screen resolution I use I can have quite a few icons on the
side panel,
very similar to gnome panel only vertical.
For an old geezer I could get used to Unity without too much trouble .
Take care
Winton
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05-08-2011, 04:20 PM
"Douglas S. Saylor"
Unity ROCKS not!!!
On Sat, 2011-05-07 at 17:06 +0100, Liam Proven wrote:
>
> Absolutely!
>
> "Here, listen, you must give up Windows, all your apps and all your
> games and everything you have ever known and move to Linux, because
> it's better and because you can read the source code."
>
> Doesn't matter if someone needs certain apps, or can't program and
> doesn't want the source.
>
> But take away one panel from their distro of choice and replace with a
> new dock, and the screams of outrage can be heard from the next
> continent over. "This is oppression, this isn't a democracy, we are
> being punished, how dare they," etc. etc. ad nauseam.
>
> It's pathetic and it's childish.
>
> Just deal with it, learn the new, and move on. That's what adults do.
> Behave like a grown up not a three-year-old whose toy has been taken
> away.
Well said!
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05-08-2011, 04:41 PM
Nils Kassube
Unity ROCKS not!!!
squareyes wrote:
> have just installed 11.04 on an external usb hard drive (still using
> 10.04), looks interesting to me
> One question, the external drive is a normal drive in a caddy,
> if I were to install it in
> the box would the system still work? would save me re-installing.
Yes, it should work. Maybe you need to install grub again, but that can
be done from the LiveCD.
Nils
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05-08-2011, 04:50 PM
Thierry de Coulon
Unity ROCKS not!!!
On Sunday 08 May 2011 06:20:58 pm Douglas S. Saylor wrote:
> But take away one panel from their distro of choice and replace with a
> new dock, and the screams of outrage can be heard from the next
> continent over. "This is oppression, this isn't a democracy, we are
> being punished, how dare they," etc. etc. ad nauseam.
>
> > It's pathetic and it's childish.
It's not. _you_ find it pathetic and childish so _you_ are telling others to
shut up. I agree there may be better to say it, but saying it is OK.
> > Just deal with it, learn the new, and move on. That's what adults do.
> > Behave like a grown up not a three-year-old whose toy has been taken
> > away.
>
> Well said!
I find both wrong. It's not oppression, but it sure is not democracy. No one
asked the "users" what they want, "someone" was bright enough to "find out"
what "the majority" wants and impose it to everyone (or at least make it
relatively difficult not to use it).
If you like a distribution and it's not going the way you like, just shutting
your mouth and following in silence is neither "grown up" nor adult, it's
_stupid_ (and I'll never do it). There are alternatives. What's adult to do
is:
a) let the people know they don't like it
b) if they don't listen go their own way (or of course change it if they are
able to)
What (some) people people are doing on this list is a); Unfortunately, having
gone through this previously on a KDE list, I fear it's useless. And the same
will happen on all Gnome-related lists given what Gnome 3 is.
My answer is: go look somewhere else: there are light desktops that can
satisfy some, keep 10.10 (or less) with Gnome 2 or use 11.04 with Gnome 2,
run Trinity-KDE 3 on 10.10, or take a look at KDE 4.6: it's taken 5 years and
it's still bloated but it (really and with quite a lot of customising) starts
to be usable. Try SuSE or Mepis 11.
A big question is the future of Gnome 2. the KDE team decided to kill KDE 3
early to force KDE 4 acceptation. Will the Gnome team do the same? Early
talks said no, but I can't find any recent infos about that. As long as Gnome
2 is maintained, there can be an Ubuntu-Gnome 2 release, that is _if_ anyone
can/is willng to do it.
Thierry
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05-08-2011, 06:43 PM
Liam Proven
Unity ROCKS not!!!
On 8 May 2011 00:21, compdoc <compdoc@hotrodpc.com> wrote:
>>It's pathetic and it's childish.
>>
>>Just deal with it, learn the new, and move on.
>
>
> Expressing an opinion, in life and in a mailing list, is never pathetic or
> childish. Our talking about it is how we deal with it. This is how people do
> this sort of thing.
I'm not saying that expressing the opinion is childish.
I'm saying that the opinion itself is childish.
> If enough of us find Unity is a step backwards, then maybe something is
> wrong with the direction Ubuntu is headed.
Who says it's anything to do with existing users?
ISTM that it's an attempt to simplify the GUI, make it more
phone/tablet-like, to win /new/ users. If the current ones don't like
it, well, tough.
There are a billion-odd Windows users out there to convert. 99.9% or
so of the world's computer users run Windows. THEY are the target, not
present Ubuntisti.
> If enough of us find Unity useful
> or even better than gnome, then Ubuntu is going the right way.
Honestly? If every existing user deserted, so long as more new ones
came on board then left, I don't think they'd mind at all.
> We are after all, the users and supporters and maintainers of Ubuntu.
> Shouldn't we be allowed to voice our opinions?
Well, yes, sure. But this is not a democracy. Never was. It's a
dictatorship, under a self-appointed dictator-for-life. Happily,
though, he is a benevolent one.
> Without us, Ubuntu would become another abandoned fork.
Not if a hundred million new users descended on it, no.
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05-08-2011, 06:59 PM
Liam Proven
Unity ROCKS not!!!
On 8 May 2011 17:50, Thierry de Coulon <tcoulon@decoulon.ch> wrote:
> On Sunday 08 May 2011 06:20:58 pm Douglas S. Saylor wrote:
>> But take away one panel from their distro of choice and replace with a
>> new dock, and the screams of outrage can be heard from the next
>> continent over. "This is oppression, this isn't a democracy, we are
>> being punished, how dare they," etc. etc. ad nauseam.
>>
>> > It's pathetic and it's childish.
>
> It's not. _you_ find it pathetic and childish so _you_ are telling others to
> shut up. I agree there may be better to say it, but saying it is OK.
I'm telling them to grow up, not shut up. :¬)
>> > Just deal with it, learn the new, and move on. That's what adults do.
>> > Behave like a grown up not a three-year-old whose toy has been taken
>> > away.
>>
>> Well said!
>
> I find both wrong. It's not oppression, but it sure is not democracy.
Never was. Never claimed to be. Anyone who ever said it was didn't
know what they were talking about.
You know the Dean Martin quote: "It's Frank's world. You and me, baby,
we just live in it." (Speaking of Sinatra.)
Well, we Ubuntisti, we live in Mark's world. It's not ours and we
don't even have much of a say in it. It's Mark's baby. He's paying,
he's in charge. He is on a mission: to bring Linux to the masses. It
is a truth universally acknowledged that the way to do this is to make
it simpler and easier, and that is the plan with Unity. To take Ubuntu
away from being a slightly-weird-bit-like-Windows-only-different
desktop to something colourful, easy and accessible, like an iPad.
> No one
> asked the "users" what they want,
Nope, because the users don't really know.
> "someone" was bright enough to "find out"
> what "the majority" wants and impose it to everyone (or at least make it
> relatively difficult not to use it).
What majority? Where? This is, in essence, an experiment - trotting
along behind Apple, taking the paths that have worked well for them.
> If you like a distribution and it's not going the way you like, just shutting
> your mouth and following in silence is neither "grown up" nor adult, it's
> _stupid_ (and I'll never do it). There are alternatives. What's adult to do
> is:
Good for you. 'Bye, then!
> a) let the people know they don't like it
Why? Why should they care? You're not a paying customer. You're a
freeloader. We all are.
> b) if they don't listen go their own way (or of course change it if they are
> able to)
You are entirely free to run anything you want; nobody is trying in
any way to prevent you.
> What (some) people people are doing on this list is a); Unfortunately, having
> gone through this previously on a KDE list, I fear it's useless. And the same
> will happen on all Gnome-related lists given what Gnome 3 is.
When a new generation of a product comes out, yes, generally, the old
one is killed off. This is not a big surprise.
Some people wanted to keep KDE3 alive 'cos they didn't like KDE4. It
failed, pretty much. The same may happen with GNOME 2 versus 3. It
will fail too, probably.
> My answer is: go look somewhere else: there are light desktops that can
> satisfy some, keep 10.10 (or less) with Gnome 2 or use 11.04 with Gnome 2,
> run Trinity-KDE 3 on 10.10, or take a look at KDE 4.6: it's taken 5 years and
> it's still bloated but it (really and with quite a lot of customising) starts
> to be usable. Try SuSE or Mepis 11.
Why move? What is so difficult about adjusting?
> A big question is the future of Gnome 2.
Is it? Really? Why? I see no question. GNOME 2 doesn't have a future.
GNOME has a future, and for now, it's GNOME 3. GNOME 2 is history.
> The KDE team decided to kill KDE 3
> early to force KDE 4 acceptation.
Kill it how? By no longer supporting a superseded piece of code? Well
what else should they do?
> Will the Gnome team do the same? Early
> talks said no, but I can't find any recent infos about that. As long as Gnome
> 2 is maintained, there can be an Ubuntu-Gnome 2 release, that is _if_ anyone
> can/is willng to Â*do it.
Why would a modern distro cling to outdated legacy code?
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05-08-2011, 07:09 PM
"compdoc"
Unity ROCKS not!!!
>Who says it's anything to do with existing users?
You're concerned with future generations, and while that's very noble of
you, I find it troubling that you would call an opinion childish or pathetic
just because we are questioning the direction of Ubuntu's desktop.
Do you always do what you're told? Have you never questioned authority?
They're trying Unity, but this doesn't mean it's better or that it will draw
in Windows users. If it sucks it's going to push users away.
The 'powers that be' sometimes get it wrong. Although I'm sure you won't
find many North Koreans who will speak out against their leader, he's still
a whack job and heading in wrong directions.
It's stupid not to voice concerns. Maybe those future Ubuntu users will
thanks us.
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05-08-2011, 07:27 PM
Billie Walsh
Unity ROCKS not!!!
On 05/08/2011 01:59 PM, Liam Proven wrote:
On 8 May 2011 17:50, Thierry de Coulon<tcoulon@decoulon.ch> wrote:
On Sunday 08 May 2011 06:20:58 pm Douglas S. Saylor wrote:
But take away one panel from their distro of choice and replace with a
new dock, and the screams of outrage can be heard from the next
continent over. "This is oppression, this isn't a democracy, we are
being punished, how dare they," etc. etc. ad nauseam.
It's pathetic and it's childish.
It's not. _you_ find it pathetic and childish so _you_ are telling others to
shut up. I agree there may be better to say it, but saying it is OK.
I'm telling them to grow up, not shut up. :¬)
Just deal with it, learn the new, and move on. That's what adults do.
Behave like a grown up not a three-year-old whose toy has been taken
away.
Well said!
I find both wrong. It's not oppression, but it sure is not democracy.
Never was. Never claimed to be. Anyone who ever said it was didn't
know what they were talking about.
You know the Dean Martin quote: "It's Frank's world. You and me, baby,
we just live in it." (Speaking of Sinatra.)
Well, we Ubuntisti, we live in Mark's world. It's not ours and we
don't even have much of a say in it. It's Mark's baby. He's paying,
he's in charge. He is on a mission: to bring Linux to the masses. It
is a truth universally acknowledged that the way to do this is to make
it simpler and easier, and that is the plan with Unity. To take Ubuntu
away from being a slightly-weird-bit-like-Windows-only-different
desktop to something colourful, easy and accessible, like an iPad.
No one
asked the "users" what they want,
Nope, because the users don't really know.
"someone" was bright enough to "find out"
what "the majority" wants and impose it to everyone (or at least make it
relatively difficult not to use it).
What majority? Where? This is, in essence, an experiment - trotting
along behind Apple, taking the paths that have worked well for them.
If you like a distribution and it's not going the way you like, just shutting
your mouth and following in silence is neither "grown up" nor adult, it's
_stupid_ (and I'll never do it). There are alternatives. What's adult to do
is:
Good for you. 'Bye, then!
a) let the people know they don't like it
Why? Why should they care? You're not a paying customer. You're a
freeloader. We all are.
b) if they don't listen go their own way (or of course change it if they are
able to)
You are entirely free to run anything you want; nobody is trying in
any way to prevent you.
What (some) people people are doing on this list is a); Unfortunately, having
gone through this previously on a KDE list, I fear it's useless. And the same
will happen on all Gnome-related lists given what Gnome 3 is.
When a new generation of a product comes out, yes, generally, the old
one is killed off. This is not a big surprise.
Some people wanted to keep KDE3 alive 'cos they didn't like KDE4. It
failed, pretty much. The same may happen with GNOME 2 versus 3. It
will fail too, probably.
My answer is: go look somewhere else: there are light desktops that can
satisfy some, keep 10.10 (or less) with Gnome 2 or use 11.04 with Gnome 2,
run Trinity-KDE 3 on 10.10, or take a look at KDE 4.6: it's taken 5 years and
it's still bloated but it (really and with quite a lot of customising) starts
to be usable. Try SuSE or Mepis 11.
Why move? What is so difficult about adjusting?
A big question is the future of Gnome 2.
Is it? Really? Why? I see no question. GNOME 2 doesn't have a future.
GNOME has a future, and for now, it's GNOME 3. GNOME 2 is history.
The KDE team decided to kill KDE 3
early to force KDE 4 acceptation.
Kill it how? By no longer supporting a superseded piece of code? Well
what else should they do?
Will the Gnome team do the same? Early
talks said no, but I can't find any recent infos about that. As long as Gnome
2 is maintained, there can be an Ubuntu-Gnome 2 release, that is _if_ anyone
can/is willng to do it.
Why would a modern distro cling to outdated legacy code?
Seriously, I'm curious, why?
+1
Well said Liam.
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Unity ROCKS not!!!
