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Old 03-14-2011, 11:23 AM
Jesse Palser
 
Default Need More Testers Of Ubuntu 11.04 Alpha # 3...

On 03/14/2011 08:14 AM, Larry Vaden wrote:

On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 11:59 AM, Jesse Palser<SLNTHERO@aol.com> wrote:

Sorry for the misunderstanding, I am just a user
who is very interested in proper development of 11.04.

As am I `[)

BUT Ubuntu isn't any better than RedHat at distro upgrades ... the
10.10 upgraded to 11.04 Alpha RC 3 eventually failed with a dead
keyboard and mouse, so I would not advise that path to 11.04 Alpha
RC3. Even no reaction to ctrl-alt-del.

kind regards/ldv



Upgrading to an Alpha is not advised.
Better to do a clean install of Alpha.
And its even more better to do it into a virtual machine.

Alpha 3 runs good in virtual machine on my system.
Found 3 bugs and reported them to the development team.
I'm hoping these bugs will be fixed in Beta 1 on March 31.
(I wish to natively install Ubuntu 11.04 Beta 1 onto my systems.)

Jesse

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Old 03-14-2011, 11:26 AM
Jordon Bedwell
 
Default Need More Testers Of Ubuntu 11.04 Alpha # 3...

On 3/14/2011 7:14 AM, Larry Vaden wrote:

As am I `[)

BUT Ubuntu isn't any better than RedHat at distro upgrades ... the
10.10 upgraded to 11.04 Alpha RC 3 eventually failed with a dead
keyboard and mouse, so I would not advise that path to 11.04 Alpha
RC3. Even no reaction to ctrl-alt-del.

kind regards/ldv


I'm sorry, but I have to ask, was this at all a serious statement?
I mean you can't seriously expect an alpha release to not have bugs and
to go perfect?



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Old 03-14-2011, 12:17 PM
Larry Vaden
 
Default Need More Testers Of Ubuntu 11.04 Alpha # 3...

On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 7:26 AM, Jordon Bedwell <jordon@envygeeks.com> wrote:
> On 3/14/2011 7:14 AM, Larry Vaden wrote:
>>
>> As am I `[)
>>
>> BUT Ubuntu isn't any better than RedHat at distro upgrades ... the
>> 10.10 upgraded to 11.04 Alpha RC 3 eventually failed with a dead
>> keyboard and mouse, so I would not advise that path to 11.04 Alpha
>> RC3. *Even no reaction to ctrl-alt-del.
>>
>> kind regards/ldv
>
> I'm sorry, but I have to ask, was this at all a serious statement?
> I mean you can't seriously expect an alpha release to not have bugs and to
> go perfect?

Journey or destination ... I chose to contribute to the journey in
hopes of a better destination.

Many, many folks will be trying to do an in-situ upgrade and that path
should work, just as it does for WinDoze users.

kind regards/ldv

--
Larry Vaden, CoFounder
Internet Texoma, Inc.
Serving Rural Texomaland Since 1995
We Care About Your Connection!

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Old 03-14-2011, 12:32 PM
Tom H
 
Default Need More Testers Of Ubuntu 11.04 Alpha # 3...

On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 7:59 AM, Jesse Palser <SLNTHERO@aol.com> wrote:
> On 03/14/2011 04:48 AM, Tom H wrote:
>> On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 6:50 PM, Jesse Palser<SLNTHERO@aol.com> *wrote:
>>>
>>> Here is a screenshot of my testing:
>>> http://16bitsoft.com/images/U11.04A3-Testing01.png
>>> (example of 11.04 Alpha 3 in VirtualBox)
>>
>> This doesn't look like Unity though.
>
> If you want the new Unity desktop in VirtualBox
> then goto this web page and follow its instructions:
> http://www.techvivid.com/2010/12/ubuntu-11-04-natty-narwhal-unity-on-virtualbox-4-0
>
> I tried new Unity desktop and did not like it
> so I booted into "Ubuntu Classic Desktop"
> at the login screen...

I know how to enable 3-D in VirtualBox (it doesn't allow me to boot
Unity though)!

I was simply pointing out that if you really want to help the
development of 11.04, testing Unity's more important than testing
gnome-panel (since the latter's barely different, from a version
perspective not a look one).

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Old 03-14-2011, 01:17 PM
Jeff Lane
 
Default Need More Testers Of Ubuntu 11.04 Alpha # 3...

On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 06:45, Cybe R. Wizard
<cyber_wizard@mindspring.com> wrote:

>> > ...and you speak for Ubuntu, how?
>>
>> Did he say anything untrue?
>
> Why, no. *Did I in any way intimate that he had?

No, and perhaps is simply a byproduct of the wonders of e-mail that
leaves tone out, but your tone came across as rather accusatory or
just plain spiteful. If that was not your intent, the cool, but I was
not the only person who took it that way.

>
> Where was it, again, that I disagreed with anything at all? *I don't
> understand where you are coming from with your question. *Did you read
> someone else's post? *Mine was short, to the point /and questioning/,
> not disagreeing with anything.

One could infer, that simply implying "you don't speak for the
community" is implying that everything he says is invalid, or at the
very least that what he has to say isn't worth saying or hearing.


> And again, I didn't and haven't disagreed with anything in his post.
> Where do you find disagreement? *...and why, since it obviously isn't
> there?

But in any case, point taken, poor choice of words on my part, however
it was more polite than me saying "What gives you the right to
question someone in the community asking the community to help Ubuntu
out."

> I /did/ question his place to issue a call for testers /in the name of
> Ubuntu/. *His use of the word, "we," in his post surely indicates to
> you, as it did to me, that he speaks for Ubuntu. *I doubt that that's
> the case, whether or not the /need/ is truly there, a point which
> I /do not/ argue.

Are you saying that YOU are not part of Ubuntu? That is kinda the
whole point of the "Community" at large. WE are all part of the
community, WE who develop, test, and even just USE Ubuntu are part of
the larger Ubuntu Community. Just because someone isn't on a steering
committee doesn't mean that they have no say, or that they aren't a
part of the community and thus can not speak up. Now there MAY have
been an issue if he had stood up and declared something like "From
this point forward, There will no longer be a Kubuntu."

However, had he said something along those lines, most/all of us would
have laughed at the lunacy of such a thing, something like the
"Emperor of the United States" (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Norton ) But he did not, he
merely asked others in the community, as a community member, to lend a
hand in testing Natty, something that should not be discouraged.
There are a LOT of people in the Ubuntu community who are not part of
some steering committee who do this sort of thing every day, and it is
THEIR contributions mostly, that keep everything going. Were it not
for them, the Ubuntu "Community" would be a very small place.

> Can you now see that I did /not/ disagree with what he said, only
> questioned his right, not to say it, but to phrase it in such a
> way that it seemed to issue from the Ubu Powers That Be?

Absolutely, as I said, point taken. Poor choice of words on my part.

Cheers,

Jeff

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Old 03-14-2011, 02:34 PM
"Cybe R. Wizard"
 
Default Need More Testers Of Ubuntu 11.04 Alpha # 3...

On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 10:17:40 -0400
Jeff Lane <jeff@ubuntu.com> wrote:

> Are you saying that YOU are not part of Ubuntu? That is kinda the
> whole point of the "Community" at large. WE are all part of the
> community, WE who develop, test, and even just USE Ubuntu are part of
> the larger Ubuntu Community.

I agree that the word should have that connotation, but
there appears to be some slight problem with that idea:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/689893

Let's look at just one sentence from the CoC as example:
"We expect members of the Ubuntu community to be respectful when
dealing with other contributors as well as with people outside the
Ubuntu project and with users of Ubuntu."

Let's strip it down a little:
"We expect members of the Ubuntu community to be respectful when
dealing with... users of Ubuntu."

As a simple user I feel that that one sentence leaves me right /out/
of the 'community'. That feeling runs throughout the CoC, regardless
of 'Community Members' abilities to see or feel it, and is part and
parcel of bug 689893.

> Just because someone isn't on a steering
> committee doesn't mean that they have no say, or that they aren't a
> part of the community and thus can not speak up.

The 'say' of the User (caps to indicate total user base) has already
been tested a few times and found wanting in the Ubuntu meritocracy.
Remember the right/left controversy about title bar buttons? *0% vs
20% against the change. It changed anyway. How about tomboy? F-spot?
The entire Mono affair (still ongoing, IIANM)?

Yes, meritocratic, not so meritorious, though.


All that said, I am happy with Ubuntu generally and use it as my
primary OS. I imagine I will continue to do so.

I just wish they'd get the danged wording right.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
Registered Ubuntu User # 2136

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Old 03-14-2011, 02:51 PM
"Cybe R. Wizard"
 
Default Need More Testers Of Ubuntu 11.04 Alpha # 3...

On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 10:34:24 -0500
"Cybe R. Wizard" <cyber_wizard@mindspring.com> wrote:

> *0% vs
> 20% against

that * is really a capitalized 8. 80% vs 20%

Cybe R. Wizard
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"The internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it."
John Seabrook

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Old 03-14-2011, 03:26 PM
MR ZenWiz
 
Default Need More Testers Of Ubuntu 11.04 Alpha # 3...

On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 6:17 AM, Larry Vaden <vaden@texoma.net> wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 7:26 AM, Jordon Bedwell <jordon@envygeeks.com> wrote:
:
>>
>> I'm sorry, but I have to ask, was this at all a serious statement?
>> I mean you can't seriously expect an alpha release to not have bugs and to
>> go perfect?
>
> Journey or destination ... I chose to contribute to the journey in
> hopes of a better destination.
>
> Many, many folks will be trying to do an in-situ upgrade and that path
> should work, just as it does for WinDoze users.
>
Sounds like it does....

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Old 03-15-2011, 12:10 AM
Ric Moore
 
Default Need More Testers Of Ubuntu 11.04 Alpha # 3...

On Mon, 2011-03-14 at 10:17 -0400, Jeff Lane wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 06:45, Cybe R. Wizard

> > And again, I didn't and haven't disagreed with anything in his post.
> > Where do you find disagreement? ...and why, since it obviously isn't
> > there?
>
> But in any case, point taken, poor choice of words on my part, however
> it was more polite than me saying "What gives you the right to
> question someone in the community asking the community to help Ubuntu
> out."

I think that was the point in asking if this was an official cattle call
for more testers by the Alpha team. Some people might install and be
doing themselves more harm than good, feeling compelled to do so by your
"announce". Otherwise, if they don't test the alpha, they do not "want
to help Ubuntu out" following that emotional appeal logic. Read Eric
Raymond's "The Cathedral and the Bazaar". Those that wish to do a thing,
will. There is usually no need to ask, unless something mission critical
was happening and then it would come from the steering committee of that
project. Best leave that sort of thing to them, as it is their show,
with their set of goals and guidelines. So, since that kind of announce
is out of the ordinary, you were asked for credentials. is the way I saw
it. No harm, no foul. Ric




--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
Linux user# 44256


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Old 03-15-2011, 01:57 AM
Larry Vaden
 
Default Need More Testers Of Ubuntu 11.04 Alpha # 3...

On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 11:26 AM, MR ZenWiz <mrzenwiz@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 6:17 AM, Larry Vaden <vaden@texoma.net> wrote:
>>
>> Many, many folks will be trying to do an in-situ upgrade and that path
>> should work, just as it does for WinDoze users.
>>
> Sounds like it does....

I don't disagree with you, especially compared to RH/CentOS, where you
can get into trouble changing distros; I've been running 11.04 Alpha
RC2 Server on a production (albeit secondary) NMC since it came out
and have enjoyed the experience. On this particular machine, the
installed desktop packages were not from a single distro, yet the
upgrade processed seemed to cope.

If I had the time to spare, I would do it again to check for a
reproducible and reportable problem. At this time, I have no evidence
the freeze is reproducible, but _might_ expect the system to trap such
an occurrence and to automagically file a bug report. I'm impressed
with Fedora 14's ABRT (Automatic Bug Reporting Tool). I think F-14
has automagically submitted at least 3 if not 4 ABRTs on my behalf,
IIRC, all regarding SELinux violations.

ldv

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