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Old 03-05-2011, 05:58 PM
sdavmor
 
Default Jesus! I hate 11.04, WTF happened? This is awful. Somebody's head should be smacked!

On 03/05/2011 05:55 AM, Jeff Lane wrote:

On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 05:15, sdavmor<sdavmor@systemstheory.net> wrote:

On 03/05/2011 02:11 AM, Alan Pope wrote:


Hi,

On 5 March 2011 10:02, sdavmor<sdavmor@systemstheory.net> wrote:


So...I want gnome back on my desktop immediately and unity
drop-kicked over the horizon, never to be seen again.



Booting 11.04 to the logon screen you'll find an option to choose
'session'. You can select Classic GNOME for the traditional
2-panel layout you're used to.


...and I despise Firefox 4 (barf). It's as bad (maybe worse)
than Idiot Explorer 8. I never thought I'd say that about a *nix
based browser. So I want my 3.6x back.



Mozilla provide the source code and binary installers for their
browser. You can get them from their website.

Al.


Thank you! May {deity of your choice} shower you with blessings and
protect you from whatever malevolence possessed Shuttleworth et al
for this profound put-me-out-of-misery stupidity!


I bugs me that this has to be said EVERY SINGLE TIME there's an Ubuntu
alpha or beta...


From the relase announcement, as is in EVERY release announcement:

"Pre-releases of Natty are *not* encouraged for anyone needing a stable
system or anyone who is not comfortable running into occasional, even
frequent breakage. They are, however, recommended for Ubuntu developers and
those who want to help in testing, reporting, and fixing bugs."

For your benefit, I am attaching the entire release announcement,
including information on where to file bugs, where to find a list of
known issues, and even where to download the images.

But PLEASE, this is alpha level software. that means you're lucky if
it boots. So if you have a problem, instead of posting to a mailing
list with no ability to fix the issue using sensationalist subject
lines like "ZOMG WTF I TRIED THIS ALFA AND IT'S BROKEN UBUNTU SUXORZ",
file bugs in the appropriate place and help make sure that the actual
final release of Natty is the best it can be.


I know all about alphas and betas. Been there done that for years in
a wide range of *nic environments. However this is the first time I
put an Ubuntu alpha in and was really annoyed by what happened.


Once I reinstalled gnome (the upgrade deinstalled it..marvelous) and
shunted Unity off to one side where I don't have to use it 11.04 is
quite nice. FF4 beta is fast but I'm still going to roll back to 3.6
out of personal preference.



As has been said previously, NO OS is ever released without bugs, and
no new Desktop Environrment is released without bugs. And thats at
release time. We're still a fair bit out from release and there will
be a LOT of work put into Natty before it's actually released in a
form meant for daily use.


[snip]
--
Cheers, SDM -- a 21st Century Schizoid Man
Systems Theory project website: http://systemstheory.net
find us on MySpace, GarageBand, Reverb Nation, Last FM, CDBaby
free MP3s of Systems Theory, Mike Dickson & Greg Amov music at
http://mikedickson.org.uk

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Old 03-05-2011, 06:04 PM
sdavmor
 
Default Jesus! I hate 11.04, WTF happened? This is awful. Somebody's head should be smacked!

On 03/05/2011 08:56 AM, Nils Kassube wrote:

Johnny wrote:

I like 11.4. I login auto. So is there a way for me to use the
Classic GNMOME? Just would like to try it.


I think you could simply logout and then you should have the GDM login
screen where you can select the Classic Gnome. However I didn't try it
myself, so this could be wrong.


Nils


I had to first reinstall gnome. The upgrade had deinstalled it. Which
was a surprise. And it didn't offer the choice on the login screen in
the button down at the right hand side. I had to select "UBuntu
classic desktop" once I was logged back in from System --> Preferences.

--
Cheers, SDM -- a 21st Century Schizoid Man
Systems Theory project website: http://systemstheory.net
find us on MySpace, GarageBand, Reverb Nation, Last FM, CDBaby
free MP3s of Systems Theory, Mike Dickson & Greg Amov music at
http://mikedickson.org.uk

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Old 03-06-2011, 01:45 AM
NoOp
 
Default Jesus! I hate 11.04, WTF happened? This is awful. Somebody's head should be smacked!

On 03/05/2011 02:02 AM, sdavmor wrote:
> So...I want gnome back on my desktop immediately and unity drop-kicked
> over the horizon, never to be seen again.
>
> ...and I despise Firefox 4 (barf). It's as bad (maybe worse) than
> Idiot Explorer 8. I never thought I'd say that about a *nix based
> browser. So I want my 3.6x back.
>
> Help please on the above two issues.

FWIW: +1 on Natty Unity.
Attempting to do anything with it on a 1 y.o. HP G60US Notebook just
plain sucks & results in multiple crashes. I've resorted to testing with
gnome (no compiz because that doesn't work either even with the gnome
desktop).

For the other folks; yes I test Alphas & Betas regularly & generally
spend a considerable amount of time testing and filing bug reports on
those to help pre-release. However I just don't have any inclination to
do so with the Unity desktop interface. I'll leave my other comments
regarding Unity for the sounder list, but I suspect come April this list
is going to get *very* busy.


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Old 03-06-2011, 10:38 AM
Niki Kovacs
 
Default Jesus! I hate 11.04, WTF happened? This is awful. Somebody's head should be smacked!

Le 06/03/2011 03:45, NoOp a écrit :



FWIW: +1 on Natty Unity.
Attempting to do anything with it on a 1 y.o. HP G60US Notebook just
plain sucks& results in multiple crashes.


One general word of advice on the subject. It's only a question of using
the right tool for the job. As much as I like the shiny new Ducati 1198
sports bike, I wouldn't exactly use it for a trip from France to India
and over the Himalaya. For this, a BMW 1250 GS would be more appropriate.


Similarly, if you're looking for stability on a production machine, why
not simply use Ubuntu 10.04 LTS? I'm an IT professional using 100%
GNU/Linux for the last ten years, and I wonder what it is that you're
possibly looking for in Ubuntu 11.04 that's not featured in 10.04 or
10.10. If you want to use Unity *and* have a rock-solid system under the
hood, then why not simply wait until next year, until 12.04 LTS comes
out? Leave the alpha-and-beta-testing hassle to the developers.


Cheers from the sunny South of France,

Niki Kovacs

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Old 03-06-2011, 05:01 PM
NoOp
 
Default Jesus! I hate 11.04, WTF happened? This is awful. Somebody's head should be smacked!

On 03/06/2011 03:38 AM, Niki Kovacs wrote:
> Le 06/03/2011 03:45, NoOp a écrit :
>
>>
>> FWIW: +1 on Natty Unity.
>> Attempting to do anything with it on a 1 y.o. HP G60US Notebook just
>> plain sucks& results in multiple crashes.
>
> One general word of advice on the subject. It's only a question of using
> the right tool for the job. As much as I like the shiny new Ducati 1198
> sports bike, I wouldn't exactly use it for a trip from France to India
> and over the Himalaya. For this, a BMW 1250 GS would be more appropriate.

Your analogy doesn't work. Nor does it make any sense. Oh, and I bought
my first Ducati in 1968...

>
> Similarly, if you're looking for stability on a production machine, why
> not simply use Ubuntu 10.04 LTS? I'm an IT professional using 100%
> GNU/Linux for the last ten years, and I wonder what it is that you're
> possibly looking for in Ubuntu 11.04 that's not featured in 10.04 or
> 10.10. If you want to use Unity *and* have a rock-solid system under the
> hood, then why not simply wait until next year, until 12.04 LTS comes
> out? Leave the alpha-and-beta-testing hassle to the developers.

I think that if you review the archives for this list you'll find that
I've generally test every alpha since breezy. You'll also find that I am
pretty active in launchpad.
I fully expect crashes; my comments are primarily aimed at the Unity
interface. Have you tried it? Some will like it, others hate it. But
that's a subject for the sounder list (at least until April).

That said, this alpha (up until yesterday's updates) seems to crash
considerably more than previous alphas (dapper, edgy, feisty, gutsy,
hardy, lucid). I suspect that the bulk of the crashes I observed are due
to the Unity integration.






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Old 03-06-2011, 05:09 PM
sdavmor
 
Default Jesus! I hate 11.04, WTF happened? This is awful. Somebody's head should be smacked!

On 03/06/2011 03:38 AM, Niki Kovacs wrote:

Le 06/03/2011 03:45, NoOp a écrit :



FWIW: +1 on Natty Unity.
Attempting to do anything with it on a 1 y.o. HP G60US Notebook just
plain sucks& results in multiple crashes.


One general word of advice on the subject. It's only a question of
using the right tool for the job. As much as I like the shiny new
Ducati 1198 sports bike, I wouldn't exactly use it for a trip from
France to India and over the Himalaya. For this, a BMW 1250 GS would
be more appropriate.

Similarly, if you're looking for stability on a production machine,
why not simply use Ubuntu 10.04 LTS? I'm an IT professional using 100%
GNU/Linux for the last ten years, and I wonder what it is that you're
possibly looking for in Ubuntu 11.04 that's not featured in 10.04 or
10.10. If you want to use Unity *and* have a rock-solid system under
the hood, then why not simply wait until next year, until 12.04 LTS
comes out? Leave the alpha-and-beta-testing hassle to the developers.

Cheers from the sunny South of France,

Niki Kovacs


Having shunted Unity off to one side I'm OK right now with the 11.04
alpha 3 (which is usually the rev point where I start looking at a
release).

--
Cheers, SDM -- a 21st Century Schizoid Man
Systems Theory project website: http://systemstheory.net
find us on MySpace, GarageBand, Reverb Nation, Last FM, CDBaby
free MP3s of Systems Theory, Mike Dickson & Greg Amov music at
http://mikedickson.org.uk


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Old 03-06-2011, 05:34 PM
"Pongo A. Pan"
 
Default Jesus! I hate 11.04, WTF happened? This is awful. Somebody's head should be smacked!

On Sat, 2011-03-05 at 18:45 -0800, NoOp wrote:
> For the other folks; yes I test Alphas & Betas regularly & generally
> spend a considerable amount of time testing and filing bug reports on
> those to help pre-release. However I just don't have any inclination to
> do so with the Unity desktop interface. I'll leave my other comments
> regarding Unity for the sounder list, but I suspect come April this list
> is going to get *very* busy.
>

Very likely! I installed the first beta on another computer, fooled
around with Unity a bit and then did something dumb and couldn't boot
anymore. I grub-rescued my main installation and forgot about it. When
beta two came out I tried it and couldn't get the nVidia proprietary
driver to load, no matter what, so no compiz and no Unity.

I had to travel a bit, and when wife picked me up at the airport she
said casually, "Oh, I made a new box." I think she just installed 10.10
and did the CLI dist-upgrade to get here to beta-3 land. So, now I have
a new computer which is wildly more powerful than I need and which seems
to run the Unity interface very well. I guess building new boxes for
which we have no actual need will keep her out of the pool hall and away
from the racetrack, and figuring out the point of Unity will do the same
for me.

I came to GNOME when KDE 3.5 went away because things suddenly got
difficult and obscure. Unity seems to have taken the same approach.
Two mouse clicks to change desktops, can't find applications I run all
the time. etc., etc. I know it's not done yet, but it does seem to me
to be a pointless change that will create user anxiety. The many
people who will have trouble with compiz will feel left out and the
people who get Unity running will be confused by the new paradigm.

But then again, I'm just an old guy who doesn't understand the fad for
Ben Franklin eyeglasses either. Maybe this will bring in all the kids,
I dunno. I guess we want the kids, maybe. Stand by for storms.


--
pongo pan
Sun, 06 Mar 2011 10:32:26 -0800
Seneca up 3:19, 2 users, load average: 0.00, 0.01, 0.05
AMD Phenom(tm) II X6 1055T Processor
Memory: 8190448 kB, free memory: 6873692 kB
MB: GA-790XT-USB3 Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd.
Linux 2.6.38-5-generic
Ubuntu natty (development branch), Gnome 2.32.1



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Old 03-07-2011, 01:03 AM
NoOp
 
Default Jesus! I hate 11.04, WTF happened? This is awful. Somebody's head should be smacked!

On 03/06/2011 11:15 AM, Tom H wrote:
...
> The current crop of alphas/betas is interesting. The OP didn't say
> what prompted his rant (regarding FF 4.0, I don't really understand
> since it isn't radically different from FF 3.6) but the new shell
> interfaces are breaking new ground:
...

I think perhaps because under Unity the standard FF toolbars etc are
overtaken by the Unity interface. If you run FF 4.x from the mozilla
standard files (using a home folder is fine) in Gnome2 there are no
issues. If you run the Ubuntu Unity FF 4.x you'll find that the standard
UI and toolbars are missing. So it's not actually FF 4.x that is the
issue, but Unity.

If I get time I'll try to post some screenshots.


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Old 03-07-2011, 01:35 AM
NoOp
 
Default Jesus! I hate 11.04, WTF happened? This is awful. Somebody's head should be smacked!

On 03/06/2011 06:03 PM, NoOp wrote:
> On 03/06/2011 11:15 AM, Tom H wrote:
> ...
>> The current crop of alphas/betas is interesting. The OP didn't say
>> what prompted his rant (regarding FF 4.0, I don't really understand
>> since it isn't radically different from FF 3.6) but the new shell
>> interfaces are breaking new ground:
> ...
>
> I think perhaps because under Unity the standard FF toolbars etc are
> overtaken by the Unity interface. If you run FF 4.x from the mozilla
> standard files (using a home folder is fine) in Gnome2 there are no
> issues. If you run the Ubuntu Unity FF 4.x you'll find that the standard
> UI and toolbars are missing. So it's not actually FF 4.x that is the
> issue, but Unity.
>
> If I get time I'll try to post some screenshots.
>
>

FF 4.0 Mozilla in Natty/Unity:
http://img163.imageshack.us/i/screenshot1hzl.png/
(click to zoom)
FF Ubunty in Natty/Unity:
http://img190.imageshack.us/f/screenshot2ah.png/
(again click to zoom)

Notice that in order to see the 'File, Edit, etc' in the Unity version
you need to move your mouse to the top taskbar; i.e., the menubar is
auto hidden. I suspect that is a 'feature' from netbooks where Unity/UNR
was intended to save space on a limited screen. I prefer an option
whereby I can configure the autohide/minimize taskbar myself (Gnome2).




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Old 03-07-2011, 10:16 AM
Niki Kovacs
 
Default Jesus! I hate 11.04, WTF happened? This is awful. Somebody's head should be smacked!

Le 06/03/2011 19:01, NoOp a écrit :



Your analogy doesn't work. Nor does it make any sense. Oh, and I bought
my first Ducati in 1968...



In 1968 I was one year old, and I vaguely remember sitting on my dad's
BMW )


<OT>

But my analogy is still partially correct, in that nowadays I sometimes
chase the odd sports bike on my battered BMW R100R on our South French
mountain roads. I've been a bike courier for a few years, which somewhat
affected my driving style.


</OT>

I didn't know there were so many beta testers on this list. Duly noted.

Cheers from a happy Ubuntu user,

Niki Kovacs

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