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Old 01-28-2011, 12:48 PM
Wagner Sales
 
Default GNU GPL

This thread are about mail clients or about a guy asking by ways to
get inside the FOSS development?


2011/1/28 Liam Proven <lproven@gmail.com>:
> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 1:34 AM, Doug <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> wrote:
>> /snip/
>>
>> * *Gmail is good and free and doesn't crud up your email with "features".
>> * *Select text mode in your Gmail setup. It just works.
>>
>>> My boss is tied in with this and I ~loathe~ it.<spits> *You'll never make
>>> it off the ground with that between you and collaborators. They'll go
>>> crazy in short order and disappear. Ali, since you're not on the
>>> receiving end of your email, you don't know.
>>
>> /snip/
>>
>> Several folks have complained on this and other lists, that they don't know
>> if their mail is being received on the list, _because Gmail deletes those
>> messages_ from the "received" mail.
>
>
> *Sigh*
>
> No, it doesn't. Please do not spread FUD when you clearly don't know
> the exact details of what you're complaining about.
>
> Gmail does not show you messages *from yourself* /until/ someone
> replies to them. That's all. It does not delete anything and your
> outgoing messages are still right there in your Sent folder.
>
> No, I don't like the behaviour, but it doesn't delete anything.
>
> --
> Liam Proven • Info & profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/lproven
> Email: lproven@cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven@gmail.com
> Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419
> AIM/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven • MSN: lproven@hotmail.com • ICQ: 73187508
>
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> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
>

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Old 01-28-2011, 02:02 PM
Liam Proven
 
Default GNU GPL

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 1:48 PM, Wagner Sales <wsales@gmail.com> wrote:
> This thread are about mail clients or about a guy asking by ways to
> get inside the FOSS development?

The thread and the OP's question were about the GPL; it's got derailed
into Gmail-advocacy.

Also, please bottom-quote on mailing lists.

--
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Email: lproven@cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven@gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419
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Old 01-28-2011, 07:21 PM
Ric Moore
 
Default GNU GPL

On Fri, 2011-01-28 at 13:00 +0000, Liam Proven wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 12:57 AM, Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, 2011-01-27 at 16:56 +0000, Ali Hassan wrote:
> >> Dear All,
> >>
> >> I want to admit I do not understand completely the process of
> >> non-profit software development. [...]
> >>
> >
> > First of all, to EVERYONE! This is an example of the message text being
> > inside a box/cell that I rant about. Just try to reply and middle post
> > to it, it can't be done.
>
> Eh? What are you talking about? Yes, it can; note that I have done it.
> You're on Gmail, as I am. It works perfectly well, although for best
> results, I recommend that you click on "Plain text" before you reply,
> which strips out all the formatting.
>
> Ric, don't confuse the chap with completely offtopic commentary which
> is nothing to do with his actual question when the problem is that you
> don't know how to use Gmail properly while you're evangelising it.

Well, it blows my mind that you don't see the text box. I AM using
Evolution and I have had this problem with every piece of email I get
that originates from Yahoo. But, you're not seeing it, so that is
telling me that there is some way to get rid of the effect. I do not see
this with any other email service. Just Yahoo.

If everyone was suffering from that no-edit test box, then my point was
to the OP that it would make collaboration difficult and others crazy.
Now, I'm the one crazy as I seem to be the only one that suffers from
that stinkin' text box. Back to the drawing board.

As Emily Latilda used to say, "Never mind." Ric


--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
Linux user# 44256


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Old 01-28-2011, 10:38 PM
Doug
 
Default GNU GPL

On 01/28/2011 08:04 AM, Liam Proven wrote:

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 1:34 AM, Doug<dmcgarrett@optonline.net> wrote:

/snip/

Gmail is good and free and doesn't crud up your email with "features".
Select text mode in your Gmail setup. It just works.


My boss is tied in with this and I ~loathe~ it.<spits> You'll never make
it off the ground with that between you and collaborators. They'll go
crazy in short order and disappear. Ali, since you're not on the
receiving end of your email, you don't know.

/snip/

Several folks have complained on this and other lists, that they don't know
if their mail is being received on the list, _because Gmail deletes those
messages_ from the "received" mail.


*Sigh*

No, it doesn't. Please do not spread FUD when you clearly don't know
the exact details of what you're complaining about.

Gmail does not show you messages *from yourself* /until/ someone
replies to them. That's all. It does not delete anything and your
outgoing messages are still right there in your Sent folder.

No, I don't like the behaviour, but it doesn't delete anything.


You didn't read what I wrote: I said that Gmail deletes messages from
_received,_ i.e., incoming mail. If it then puts them back if they are
replied to, that doesn't solve any problem, nor does it solve any
problem if they are saved in an "outgoing mail" folder. What the
OP wants to know is if they _ever got received by the list_ even if
nobody replies to them, and as far as I understand it, Gmail does not
show those messages. If I misunderstand, I apologise.

--doug

--
Blessed are the peacemakers...for they shall be shot at from both sides. --A. M. Greeley


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Old 01-28-2011, 10:58 PM
MR ZenWiz
 
Default GNU GPL

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 3:38 PM, Doug <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> wrote:
:
> You didn't read what I wrote: *I said that Gmail deletes messages from
> *_received,_ i.e., incoming mail. *If it then puts them back if they are
> replied to, that doesn't solve any problem, nor does it solve any
> problem if they are saved in an "outgoing mail" folder. *What the
> OP wants to know is if they _ever got received by the list_ even if
> nobody replies to them, and as far as I understand it, Gmail does not
> show those messages. *If I misunderstand, I apologise.
>

This is getting a little off-topic (okay, a lot), but IIRC there is a
setting in the subscription controls that determines whether or not a
subscriber receives copies of his/her own postings.

Unfortunately, when I went to the link that (will) appear(s) at the
bottom of this email, I did not see a link from there to be able to
manage my subscription and, thus, cannot prove this.

However, I can definitively state that none of the emails I have sent
to this or any other list have come back to me and been deleted by
gmail - unless they are deleted higher up the email chain and I don't
get them at all. This is what I would expect from the list mail
facility, but not anyone between them and me (i.e., gmail).

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Old 01-29-2011, 05:48 PM
Liam Proven
 
Default GNU GPL

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 11:38 PM, Doug <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> wrote:
> On 01/28/2011 08:04 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 1:34 AM, Doug<dmcgarrett@optonline.net> *wrote:
>>>
>>> /snip/
>>>
>>> * *Gmail is good and free and doesn't crud up your email with "features".
>>> * *Select text mode in your Gmail setup. It just works.
>>>
>>>> My boss is tied in with this and I ~loathe~ it.<spits> * *You'll never
>>>> make
>>>> it off the ground with that between you and collaborators. They'll go
>>>> crazy in short order and disappear. Ali, since you're not on the
>>>> receiving end of your email, you don't know.
>>>
>>> /snip/
>>>
>>> Several folks have complained on this and other lists, that they don't
>>> know
>>> if their mail is being received on the list, _because Gmail deletes those
>>> messages_ from the "received" mail.
>>
>> *Sigh*
>>
>> No, it doesn't. Please do not spread FUD when you clearly don't know
>> the exact details of what you're complaining about.
>>
>> Gmail does not show you messages *from yourself* /until/ someone
>> replies to them. That's all. It does not delete anything and your
>> outgoing messages are still right there in your Sent folder.
>>
>> No, I don't like the behaviour, but it doesn't delete anything.
>>
> You didn't read what I wrote:

Yes, I did read it. I understood it. I am telling you that you are wrong.

> I said that Gmail deletes messages from
> *_received,_ i.e., incoming mail.

I know what you said. Gmail DOES NOT DELETE ANY OF YOUR MESSAGES.

Clear? It *does not delete your email.*

It does not /show/ it in a message list BUT IT IS STILL THERE and you
can see it in your Sent folder.

If it then puts them back if they are

--
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Email: lproven@cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven@gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419
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Old 01-29-2011, 05:51 PM
Liam Proven
 
Default GNU GPL

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 8:21 PM, Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 2011-01-28 at 13:00 +0000, Liam Proven wrote:
>> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 12:57 AM, Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Thu, 2011-01-27 at 16:56 +0000, Ali Hassan wrote:
>> >> Dear All,
>> >>
>> >> I want to admit I do not understand completely the process of
>> >> non-profit software development. [...]
>> >>
>> >
>> > First of all, to EVERYONE! This is an example of the message text being
>> > inside a box/cell that I rant about. Just try to reply and middle post
>> > to it, it can't be done.
>>
>> Eh? What are you talking about? Yes, it can; note that I have done it.
>> You're on Gmail, as I am. It works perfectly well, although for best
>> results, I recommend that you click on "Plain text" before you reply,
>> which strips out all the formatting.
>>
>> Ric, don't confuse the chap with completely offtopic commentary which
>> is nothing to do with his actual question when the problem is that you
>> don't know how to use Gmail properly while you're evangelising it.
>
> Well, it blows my mind that you don't see the text box. I AM using
> Evolution and I have had this problem with every piece of email I get
> that originates from Yahoo. But, you're not seeing it, so that is
> telling me that there is some way to get rid of the effect. I do not see
> this with any other email service. Just Yahoo.
>
> If everyone was suffering from that no-edit test box, then my point was
> to the OP that it would make collaboration difficult and others crazy.
> Now, I'm the one crazy as I seem to be the only one that suffers from
> that stinkin' text box. Back to the drawing board.
>
> As Emily Latilda used to say, "Never mind." Ric

Well, to be fair, I didn't know you were using Evolution for your
Gmail. I just assumed that if you were on Gmail you used the site.
That was wrong of me, and I apologise.

Me, I just use the Gmail webpage, but there, there is no text box.

I also use the Gmail app on my Android phone, where there's no text
box, and used to in Nokia Messaging Email on my old Communicator, and
there was no text box there either, as far as I can recall. I
occasionally use Thunderbird, too, and I see no text box there, either
- but I almost never use them for email lists; I pretty much only
access them when on Gmail.com, on a PC on broadband.

--
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Email: lproven@cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven@gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419
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Old 01-29-2011, 09:51 PM
Doug
 
Default GNU GPL

On 01/29/2011 01:48 PM, Liam Proven wrote:

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 11:38 PM, Doug<dmcgarrett@optonline.net> wrote:

On 01/28/2011 08:04 AM, Liam Proven wrote:

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 1:34 AM, Doug<dmcgarrett@optonline.net> wrote:

/snip/

Gmail is good and free and doesn't crud up your email with "features".
Select text mode in your Gmail setup. It just works.


My boss is tied in with this and I ~loathe~ it.<spits> You'll never
make
it off the ground with that between you and collaborators. They'll go
crazy in short order and disappear. Ali, since you're not on the
receiving end of your email, you don't know.

/snip/

Several folks have complained on this and other lists, that they don't
know
if their mail is being received on the list, _because Gmail deletes those
messages_ from the "received" mail.

*Sigh*

No, it doesn't. Please do not spread FUD when you clearly don't know
the exact details of what you're complaining about.

Gmail does not show you messages *from yourself* /until/ someone
replies to them. That's all. It does not delete anything and your
outgoing messages are still right there in your Sent folder.

No, I don't like the behaviour, but it doesn't delete anything.


You didn't read what I wrote:

Yes, I did read it. I understood it. I am telling you that you are wrong.


I said that Gmail deletes messages from
_received,_ i.e., incoming mail.

I know what you said. Gmail DOES NOT DELETE ANY OF YOUR MESSAGES.

Clear? It *does not delete your email.*

It does not /show/ it in a message list BUT IT IS STILL THERE and you
can see it in your Sent folder.

If it then puts them back if they are


Here is a message from the Debian list, quoted in toto:

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 22:40:15 +0000, elbbit wrote:



> On 26/01/11 22:01, Andrei Popescu wrote:

>>> I believe it's a Gmail feature the inbound copy of the message is
>>> discarded because it already has a copy in the sent folder.
>>
>> Yes, I've been working around that "feature" by receiving all list mail

>> to a different account.
>>

> Many thanks to all who replied. I appreciate you taking the time.
>
> It is moderately annoying as I use my Gmail account with POP3, set to

> download and remove all messages from the server. I am also using the
> Gmail SMTP server, and it appears that mail sent goes to the webmail's
> Sent folder - and there is no option in the Gmail interface to disable
> Google saving a copy when I deliver mail via SMTP.

Yes, and it is one of those documented "features" of Gmail:

***
http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=82454#Bounce

Finally, if you're sending mail to a mailing list that you subscribe to,
those messages will only appear in 'Sent Mail.' This behavior also occurs
when sending to an email address that automatically forwards mail back to
your Gmail address. To test forwarding addresses or mailing lists, use a
different email address to send your message.
***

Another bypass to jump this "feature" and still keep using your Gmail
address in the reply-to field could be using a different "smtp" gateway
service for sending e-mails instead using Gmail's one. Some e-mail
servers will allow to relay the e-mail if you provide the right
credentials for authentication.

Greetings,

-- Camalen Now here is a completely independent corroboration of what I
have said. It really doesn't matter what shows in a "sent mail"
directory. That doesn't mean the mail got delivered to the mailing list,
it just means that it was picked up by the server. After that it could
have been sent to /dev/nul and no-one would be the wiser. --doug




--
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Old 01-29-2011, 11:04 PM
Liam Proven
 
Default GNU GPL

On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 10:51 PM, Doug <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> wrote:
> On 01/29/2011 01:48 PM, Liam Proven wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 11:38 PM, Doug<dmcgarrett@optonline.net> *wrote:
>>>
>>> On 01/28/2011 08:04 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 1:34 AM, Doug<dmcgarrett@optonline.net>
>>>> *wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> /snip/
>>>>>
>>>>> * *Gmail is good and free and doesn't crud up your email with
>>>>> "features".
>>>>> * *Select text mode in your Gmail setup. It just works.
>>>>>
>>>>>> My boss is tied in with this and I ~loathe~ it.<spits> * * *You'll
>>>>>> never
>>>>>> make
>>>>>> it off the ground with that between you and collaborators. They'll go
>>>>>> crazy in short order and disappear. Ali, since you're not on the
>>>>>> receiving end of your email, you don't know.
>>>>>
>>>>> /snip/
>>>>>
>>>>> Several folks have complained on this and other lists, that they don't
>>>>> know
>>>>> if their mail is being received on the list, _because Gmail deletes
>>>>> those
>>>>> messages_ from the "received" mail.
>>>>
>>>> *Sigh*
>>>>
>>>> No, it doesn't. Please do not spread FUD when you clearly don't know
>>>> the exact details of what you're complaining about.
>>>>
>>>> Gmail does not show you messages *from yourself* /until/ someone
>>>> replies to them. That's all. It does not delete anything and your
>>>> outgoing messages are still right there in your Sent folder.
>>>>
>>>> No, I don't like the behaviour, but it doesn't delete anything.
>>>>
>>> You didn't read what I wrote:
>>
>> Yes, I did read it. I understood it. I am telling you that you are wrong.
>>
>>> I said that Gmail deletes messages from
>>> *_received,_ i.e., incoming mail.
>>
>> I know what you said. Gmail DOES NOT DELETE ANY OF YOUR MESSAGES.
>>
>> Clear? It *does not delete your email.*
>>
>> It does not /show/ it in a message list BUT IT IS STILL THERE and you
>> can see it in your Sent folder.
>>
>> If it then puts them back if they are
>>
> Here is a message from the Debian list, quoted in toto:
>
> On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 22:40:15 +0000, elbbit wrote:
>
>
>> > *On 26/01/11 22:01, Andrei Popescu wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >>> *I believe it's a Gmail feature the inbound copy of the message is
>>>> >>> *discarded because it already has a copy in the sent folder.
>>>
>>> >> *>> *Yes, I've been working around that "feature" by receiving all
>>> >> list mail
>>> >> *to a different account.
>>> >>
>>
>> > *Many thanks to all who replied. *I appreciate you taking the time.
>> > *> *It is moderately annoying as I use my Gmail account with POP3, set
>> > to
>> > *download and remove all messages from the server. *I am also using the
>> > *Gmail SMTP server, and it appears that mail sent goes to the webmail's
>> > *Sent folder - and there is no option in the Gmail interface to disable
>> > *Google saving a copy when I deliver mail via SMTP.
>
> Yes, and it is one of those documented "features" of Gmail:
>
> ***
> http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=82454#Bounce
>
> Finally, if you're sending mail to a mailing list that you subscribe to,
> those messages will only appear in 'Sent Mail.' This behavior also occurs
> when sending to an email address that automatically forwards mail back to
> your Gmail address. To test forwarding addresses or mailing lists, use a
> different email address to send your message.
> ***
>
> Another bypass to jump this "feature" and still keep using your Gmail
> address in the reply-to field could be using a different "smtp" gateway
> service for sending e-mails instead using Gmail's one. Some e-mail
> servers will allow to relay the e-mail if you provide the right
> credentials for authentication.
>
> Greetings,
>
> -- Camaleón
>
> Now here is a completely independent corroboration of what I
> have said. It really doesn't matter what shows in a "sent mail" directory.
> That doesn't mean the mail got delivered to the mailing list, it just means
> that it was picked up by the server. After that it could have been sent to
> /dev/nul and no-one would be the wiser. --doug

It's not confirmation. Nothing is being deleted. There is a world of
difference between "hidden" and "deleted". The message is there, was
delivered, it just does not appear unless someone replies to it.

I don't like the functionality either - I think it's a dumb idea - but
claiming that it is something different or that something is occurring
that is not is unhelpful, unproductive and in the end untrue.

--
Liam Proven • Info & profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/lproven
Email: lproven@cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven@gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419
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Old 01-30-2011, 06:26 AM
Ali Hassan
 
Default GNU GPL

Dear All,

Three days ago I sent email about collaboration under GNU GPL mentality. Only one answer respected the topic. Tens of answers created a stream about how Gmail is great. I use the system I like, and you are free not to use it. I think a lot of people are mislead by this strange deviation of the subject.


ali



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