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Old 01-21-2011, 05:01 PM
James Tappin
 
Default still looking for decent PDF annotation tool

On Fri, 21 Jan 2011 17:19:21 +0000
Tony Pursell <ajp@princeswalk.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

TP> I think the whole problem of PDF files is that they are designed to
TP> be immutable objects - so any form of annotation that changes the
TP> PDF itself should be impossible. For someone to send you a PDF for
TP> annotation is completely wrong and misses the point of having PDFs
TP> in the first place, so they should not object to having your
TP> annotations and edits sent back to them in some other format.
TP>
TP> So any method of annotation is going to be a bit of a botch. Here
TP> is mine:
TP>
TP> Open the PDF in GIMP. Use the text tool (and other tools, maybe) to
TP> make annotations. Print back to a PDF (I seem to get this option as
TP> one of my 'printers' so I may have installed something to do it).

There is a PDF importer for OpenOffice that reads a PDF as a series of
images into a drawing document, to which it is then possible to add
drawing elements (e.g. text, boxes...) and then re-export to PDF.

It is also possible (I guess) to use pdfedit -- but my experience of
that is that the UI is so obscure that it's almost impossible to
actually do anything with it!


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Old 01-21-2011, 05:11 PM
NoOp
 
Default still looking for decent PDF annotation tool

On 01/21/2011 05:43 AM, Arnaud G wrote:
> I know it's not free but I do a lot of pdf work and find it excellent. PDF
> studio from qoppa
> http://www.qoppa.com/pdfstudio/index.html

+1

And for opensource:
xournal
[PDF Annotate & then File:Export to PDF - save a copy of the xournal for
the archive in case you need to correct].


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Old 01-21-2011, 05:19 PM
NoOp
 
Default still looking for decent PDF annotation tool

On 01/21/2011 08:42 AM, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Jan 2011, Arnaud G wrote:
>
>> I know it's not free but I do a lot of pdf work and find it
>> excellent. PDF studio from qoppa
>> http://www.qoppa.com/pdfstudio/index.html
>
> ok, i'll check into that but at the risk of annoying by way of
> repetition, let me describe clearly what i'm after and others can let
> me know if they have actually *used* something that constitutes a
> solution (you'll see what i mean by that shortly).
>
> i proofread a number of sizable word documents from a certain
> publisher and the pattern until now has been to open these docs in
> openoffice (3.2 in my case), go into Edit > Changes, then select both
> "Record" and "Show", for obvious reasons.
>
> i then start proofreading and all of my feedback falls into two
> categories:
>
> * short, in-place edits, where the fact that a line has been changed
> is visually obvious by a mark (vertical bar) in the margin, and
>
> * longer comments added on the right side, using Ctl+Alt+N (insert >
> comment), for which i use the word "annotate"
>
> and that's it -- i have no need of any other changes to the document
> i'm reviewing. and when i'm done, i save it back to the original doc
> format, and email it back.
...

PDF Studio.

http://www.qoppa.com/pdfstudio/buy/compare.html


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Old 01-21-2011, 05:43 PM
"Robert P. J. Day"
 
Default still looking for decent PDF annotation tool

On Fri, 21 Jan 2011, Tony Pursell wrote:

> On Fri, 2011-01-21 at 12:33 -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
> > On Fri, 21 Jan 2011, Tony Pursell wrote:
> >
> > > I think the whole problem of PDF files is that they are designed
> > > to be immutable objects - so any form of annotation that changes
> > > the PDF itself should be impossible. For someone to send you a
> > > PDF for annotation is completely wrong and misses the point of
> > > having PDFs in the first place, so they should not object to
> > > having your annotations and edits sent back to them in some
> > > other format.
> > >
> > > So any method of annotation is going to be a bit of a botch.
> >
> > so, out of curiosity, how does adobe reader work? a colleague
> > tells me she has the commercial adobe reader on her mac, and she
> > can annotate PDFs just fine. so what is adobe reader doing to
> > that file?
>
> I assume that is the paid for version from Adobe (called Adobe
> Acrobat - the free version is Adobe Acrobat Reader) that is also a
> PDF creation & edit tool. It costs 532.80 here in the UK and is
> only available for Windows and Mac.

my colleague describes what she has as the "fully paid Adobe Reader
package" on a mac, so it sounds like what you're describing. but my
question sort of remains -- what is it that is embedded in that
product that is so difficult to find in an OSS utility? is it a
licensing issue? a reverse-engineering issue? am i just not
understanding the fundamental problem here? sorry if i'm being
utterly clueless.

rday

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Old 01-21-2011, 06:08 PM
"Robert P. J. Day"
 
Default still looking for decent PDF annotation tool

On Fri, 21 Jan 2011, Titus wrote:

> It is manipulating the underlying PostScript code. PostScript
> is a vector graphics format originally designed for describing
> a page to be printed. Lots of programs will output PostScript:
> xfig, ghostview, TeX and LaTeX and lots more. And there are
> programs ('ps2pdf' and others) that will take the PostScript
> and produce a .pdf file. Similarly, there are programs
> ('pdf2ps' and others) that will convert a .pdf file back into
> a PostScript file.
>
> Gimp (I think) will do these conversions for you and allow you
> to mark up the document while it is open. This is essentially
> what Adobe Acrobat (the $$ version) will do for you.

so you're saying that programs that legitimately edit PDF files must
first convert back to postscript, then do the changes on the
postscript, then translate back to PDF?

rday

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Old 01-21-2011, 06:27 PM
Titus
 
Default still looking for decent PDF annotation tool

In essence, yes. PDF is an open format. So, it is quite
possible to create a tool that edits PDF directly. But I
do not know of any. (Doesn't mean they don't exist.) I
use tools that are comfortable with PostScript: TeX, LaTeX,
xifg, even a package called 'pstricks', which (when it works
on Ubuntu) allows you to *really* mark up a TeX/LaTex
document with PostScript scribbles.


Titus sends




so you're saying that programs that legitimately edit PDF files must
first convert back to postscript, then do the changes on the
postscript, then translate back to PDF?

rday



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Old 01-21-2011, 06:30 PM
"Robert P. J. Day"
 
Default still looking for decent PDF annotation tool

On Fri, 21 Jan 2011, Titus wrote:

> In essence, yes. PDF is an open format. So, it is quite possible
> to create a tool that edits PDF directly. But I do not know of any.
> (Doesn't mean they don't exist.) I use tools that are comfortable
> with PostScript: TeX, LaTeX, xifg, even a package called 'pstricks',
> which (when it works on Ubuntu) allows you to *really* mark up a
> TeX/LaTex document with PostScript scribbles.

ok, this is slowly starting to make more sense, thanks for clearing
that up.

rday

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Old 01-21-2011, 07:06 PM
Robert Holtzman
 
Default still looking for decent PDF annotation tool

On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 11:46:56AM -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Jan 2011, Bas Roufs wrote:
> >
> > In case Evince is not ready yet: in Okular you can find the
> > annotation functions you are looking for - that's the point I am
> > making.
>
> and it just dawned on me (argh) that the recipient might be running
> only windows, which makes using okular problematic. ideally, i'd like
> to find a solution that doesn't require the recipient to be running a
> KDE-based linux distro.

You don't need a KDE-based linux distro to run a KDE-based program. Just
install it and it will install all (a lot!) the dependencies.


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Old 01-21-2011, 07:09 PM
MR ZenWiz
 
Default still looking for decent PDF annotation tool

On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 10:43 AM, Robert P. J. Day
<rpjday@crashcourse.ca> wrote:
:
>
> *my colleague describes what she has as the "fully paid Adobe Reader
> package" on a mac, so it sounds like what you're describing. *but my
> question sort of remains -- what is it that is embedded in that
> product that is so difficult to find in an OSS utility? *is it a
> licensing issue? *a reverse-engineering issue? *am i just not
> understanding the fundamental problem here? *sorry if i'm being
> utterly clueless.
>

Well, you are, but that's ok. PDF is a proprietary format owned and
operated by Adobe. While many utilities exist to mess with them, most
do not allow you to edit them. AFAICT, even Acrobat won't let you
"edit" a PDF so much as create a new one from an old one and then
rewrite the file (which is functionally the same but technically a
little different). PDFs are great for exchanging files that never
need to be changed again. For everything else, there's
LibreOffice....

:-)

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Old 01-21-2011, 07:10 PM
MR ZenWiz
 
Default still looking for decent PDF annotation tool

On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 12:06 PM, Robert Holtzman <holtzm@cox.net> wrote:
>
> You don't need a KDE-based linux distro to run a KDE-based program. Just
> install it and it will install all (a lot!) the dependencies.
>
I've done that, but occasionally one will hiccup in GNOME because
something in KDE is not there....

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