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Old 02-04-2008, 02:31 PM
"Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek"
 
Default echo icons should not be provided with fedora by default / echo cannot be the default icon set

hi,

you know my opinion about echo:

* it causes mixing of tangoish style and echo, because of well used
tango style and lack of icon in echo
* they are not complete and they cannot cover some icons because of
hardcoded pixmaps (not to accept is hardcoding echo instead of fixing that)

* echo looks like childs play

that was my subjective opinion. now some facts (0.3.1-1.fc8):

* blurry gedit
* blurry gcalctool
* non-echo gnome-screenshot
* non-echo dictionary
* non-echo file-roller
* non-echo sound-juicer
* non-echo gimp
* non-echo inkscape
* non-echo gconf-editor
* non-echo nautilus
* non-echo gnome-mount
* non-echo prefferred apps
* non-echo keyboard prefs
* non-echo appearance
* non-echo windows
* non-echo personal file sharing
* non-echo date and time
* non-echo screen
* non-echo root's password
* non-echo neat-control (network interfaces control tool)
* non-echo grub configuration tool
* non-echo services
* non-echo authorization
* non-echo users and groups
* non-echo sound
* non-echo firewall
* non-echo lvm
* non-echo gtk-help
* non-echo gtk-close
* no svgs
* low visibility of panel volume icons
* too much of transparency in system-search/whatever it is

what I want you to tell? we cannot use that icons, becase we'll be
mixing styles (that's a fact you must understand).


even if you can stand on your head, you cannot change this.

fedora should follow new fashion of tangoish artwork and should provide
tangoish icons where possible to make its configuration tools integrate
better with gnome (because without rewriting they'll never be
kde-compiliant).


why icons are *so* important? because "love at first sight" may occur.

also, have you even seen ubuntu... ie. hardy heron? it also mixes styles
and don't look so good with this... but ubuntu is not mixing
*perspectives* as fedora is gonna do.


people are happy that fedora has used tangoish icons - they said "it
looks so modern" etc. hylke bons said that in one of his entries.


should we dissapoint them with incomplete bluecurve-inherited bluecurve
replacement?


i don't think so.

tango guidelines are well know. their pallette may look dirty, but it's
yet vibrant and looks good on both dark and light backgrounds. thanks to
the border (part of tango guidelines).


echo contains slight borders, slight gradient and too big contrast of
colors.



i said before, that i think that echo in tango styl would look
interesting and modern, but didn't heard me.


also, you wanted to show some examples of echo's issues.

i've shown them to you, but you haven't even answered me...

ignorance?

fedora is not brought only to you, but to all.

i want you to see the nonsense of echo.

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Old 02-05-2008, 06:15 PM
"Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek"
 
Default echo icons should not be provided with fedora by default / echo cannot be the default icon set

hi,

you know my opinion about echo:

* it causes mixing of tangoish style and echo, because of well used
tango style and lack of icon in echo
* they are not complete and they cannot cover some icons because of
hardcoded pixmaps (not to accept is hardcoding echo instead of fixing that)

* echo looks like childs play

that was my subjective opinion. now some facts (0.3.1-1.fc8):

* blurry gedit
* blurry gcalctool
* non-echo gnome-screenshot
* non-echo dictionary
* non-echo file-roller
* non-echo sound-juicer
* non-echo gimp
* non-echo inkscape
* non-echo gconf-editor
* non-echo nautilus
* non-echo gnome-mount
* non-echo prefferred apps
* non-echo keyboard prefs
* non-echo appearance
* non-echo windows
* non-echo personal file sharing
* non-echo date and time
* non-echo screen
* non-echo root's password
* non-echo neat-control (network interfaces control tool)
* non-echo grub configuration tool
* non-echo services
* non-echo authorization
* non-echo users and groups
* non-echo sound
* non-echo firewall
* non-echo lvm
* non-echo gtk-help
* non-echo gtk-close
* no svgs
* low visibility of panel volume icons
* too much of transparency in system-search/whatever it is

what I want you to tell? we cannot use that icons, becase we'll be
mixing styles (that's a fact you must understand).


even if you can stand on your head, you cannot change this.

fedora should follow new fashion of tangoish artwork and should provide
tangoish icons where possible to make its configuration tools integrate
better with gnome (because without rewriting they'll never be
kde-compiliant).


why icons are *so* important? because "love at first sight" may occur.

also, have you even seen ubuntu


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Old 02-05-2008, 06:19 PM
Máirín Duffy
 
Default echo icons should not be provided with fedora by default / echo cannot be the default icon set

Jakub,

Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek wrote:

hi,

you know my opinion about echo:


1) You ALREADY sent this diatribe. Rather than re-sending it, think
about why nobody cared to reply to it.


2) I am losing my patience with your Echo bashing. Filing bug reports
for the icons you found objective issues with is far more helpful than
flinging an trolling diatribe.


I'm considering putting your messages on moderation.

~m

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Old 02-05-2008, 07:35 PM
"Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek"
 
Default echo icons should not be provided with fedora by default / echo cannot be the default icon set

Máirín Duffy wrote:

Jakub,

Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek wrote:

hi,

you know my opinion about echo:


1) You ALREADY sent this diatribe. Rather than re-sending it, think
about why nobody cared to reply to it.

2) I am losing my patience with your Echo bashing. Filing bug reports
for the icons you found objective issues with is far more helpful than
flinging an trolling diatribe.

I'm considering putting your messages on moderation.

~m


Funny... I've sent here, not in BZ, list of issues with screenshots.

Noone was interested.

Why? Better is not to listen and ignore me.

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Old 02-05-2008, 07:40 PM
Máirín Duffy
 
Default echo icons should not be provided with fedora by default / echo cannot be the default icon set

Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek wrote:

Máirín Duffy wrote:

Jakub,

Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek wrote:

hi,

you know my opinion about echo:


1) You ALREADY sent this diatribe. Rather than re-sending it, think
about why nobody cared to reply to it.

2) I am losing my patience with your Echo bashing. Filing bug reports
for the icons you found objective issues with is far more helpful than
flinging an trolling diatribe.

I'm considering putting your messages on moderation.

~m


Funny... I've sent here, not in BZ, list of issues with screenshots.

Noone was interested.

Why? Better is not to listen and ignore me.


Yes, I realize from the first time you posted the list that you sent it
to the mailing list. What I was trying to hint to you is that bug
reports really belong in bugzilla, not on a mailing list, and certainly
without the vinegar!


Maybe the Echo folks aren't rushing to fix all the issues you've brought
up since you've been extremely rude to them repeatedly? Ever hear of the
saying 'sugar works better than vinegar' ?


~m

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Old 02-05-2008, 07:46 PM
"Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek"
 
Default echo icons should not be provided with fedora by default / echo cannot be the default icon set

Máirín Duffy wrote:

Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek wrote:

Máirín Duffy wrote:

Jakub,

Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek wrote:

hi,

you know my opinion about echo:


1) You ALREADY sent this diatribe. Rather than re-sending it, think
about why nobody cared to reply to it.

2) I am losing my patience with your Echo bashing. Filing bug reports
for the icons you found objective issues with is far more helpful than
flinging an trolling diatribe.

I'm considering putting your messages on moderation.

~m


Funny... I've sent here, not in BZ, list of issues with screenshots.

Noone was interested.

Why? Better is not to listen and ignore me.


Yes, I realize from the first time you posted the list that you sent it
to the mailing list. What I was trying to hint to you is that bug
reports really belong in bugzilla, not on a mailing list, and certainly
without the vinegar!

Maybe the Echo folks aren't rushing to fix all the issues you've brought
up since you've been extremely rude to them repeatedly? Ever hear of the
saying 'sugar works better than vinegar' ?

~m


I can file bugs, but I'm sure they'll not fix it. - This was not the
thing you want to hear, I know, but that's true.


Echo was made to be included in F7, then F8 and then for F9, but still
it's not ready. Not so polished as it should be.


#11, #12, #13, #14 in Hosted Trac.

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Old 02-05-2008, 08:13 PM
Máirín Duffy
 
Default echo icons should not be provided with fedora by default / echo cannot be the default icon set

Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek wrote:
I can file bugs, but I'm sure they'll not fix it. - This was not the
thing you want to hear, I know, but that's true.


Do you understand why they may not want to, given your behavior?

If you really cared to have the issues you report fixed you would treat
people with more respect.


~m

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Old 02-05-2008, 09:06 PM
"Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek"
 
Default echo icons should not be provided with fedora by default / echo cannot be the default icon set

Martin Sourada wrote:

On Tue, 2008-02-05 at 16:13 -0500, Máirín Duffy wrote:

Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek wrote:

I can file bugs, but I'm sure they'll not fix it. - This was not the
thing you want to hear, I know, but that's true.

Do you understand why they may not want to, given your behavior?

If you really cared to have the issues you report fixed you would treat
people with more respect.

~m


One of the reasons why we do not care much to respond to your cries is,
as Mo said, your behaviour. We just don't want some pointless flame. And
as for fixing the issues (many of those you listed are real problems)
its mainly a matter of lacking enough contributors. So if you really
want to have clear reactions about them from us, you really have to fill
bugs. If they are invalid, you'll be given straight notice, that it is
not an issue or us, and if they are valid, they will not be forgotten.
Given how much spare time I, and I suppose Luya as well, have, it's hard
for the two of us to be making fast progress, but I hope that now when
we have finally decided about the guidelines we can attract more people
to contribute.

Martin


------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Easier would be making tango-compiliant theme to play well with GNOME apps.

Some apps are using hardcoded pixmaps, but better are tangoish, than
old-GNOME-1.x.


You cannot theme them, so style will be mixing.

I'm said you decided to create icon theme from 0...

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