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Old 12-07-2010, 05:15 PM
Richard Owlett
 
Default Wubi paranoid friendly?

I date from the era of vacuum tubes and 026's.
Though I've programed, I'm a user not a programmer.
I am a Windows(tm) user who wishes to be a *nix user.

I wish to try Ubuntu.

Full install OBVIOUSLY *NOT* acceptable ;/

Dual boot *NOT* acceptable as it requires repartitioning my hard
drive. I've had bad experiences with repartitioning.

I've already gone the "live" CD/USB route which proves that my
hardware is minimally compliant

!!! *BUT* !!!

I'm looking for something indistinguishable from a full install,
think equivalent of "Turing Test" ;/

Basic question is:
"How does Wubi mess with my hard drive?"

I've searched multiple Wubi related pages without an adequate answer.





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Old 12-07-2010, 05:21 PM
scott
 
Default Wubi paranoid friendly?

On 12/07/2010 01:15 PM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> I date from the era of vacuum tubes and 026's.
> Though I've programed, I'm a user not a programmer.
> I am a Windows(tm) user who wishes to be a *nix user.
>
> I wish to try Ubuntu.
>
> Full install OBVIOUSLY *NOT* acceptable ;/
>
> Dual boot *NOT* acceptable as it requires repartitioning my hard
> drive. I've had bad experiences with repartitioning.
>
> I've already gone the "live" CD/USB route which proves that my
> hardware is minimally compliant
>
> !!! *BUT* !!!
>
> I'm looking for something indistinguishable from a full install,
> think equivalent of "Turing Test" ;/
>
> Basic question is:
> "How does Wubi mess with my hard drive?"
>
> I've searched multiple Wubi related pages without an adequate answer.
>
>
>
>
>
>
WUBI actually installs like any other MS application. It doesn't change
your partitions on the drive at all. It installs as a single file. You
can uninstall it the same way you would uninstall any other application.

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Old 12-07-2010, 05:37 PM
David Fletcher
 
Default Wubi paranoid friendly?

On Tue, 2010-12-07 at 12:15 -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:
> I date from the era of vacuum tubes and 026's.
> Though I've programed, I'm a user not a programmer.
> I am a Windows(tm) user who wishes to be a *nix user.
>
> I wish to try Ubuntu.
>
> Full install OBVIOUSLY *NOT* acceptable ;/
>
> Dual boot *NOT* acceptable as it requires repartitioning my hard
> drive. I've had bad experiences with repartitioning.
>
> I've already gone the "live" CD/USB route which proves that my
> hardware is minimally compliant
>
> !!! *BUT* !!!
>
> I'm looking for something indistinguishable from a full install,
> think equivalent of "Turing Test" ;/
>
> Basic question is:
> "How does Wubi mess with my hard drive?"
>
> I've searched multiple Wubi related pages without an adequate answer.
>

I've not tried the wubi installer at all but I successfully run Kubuntu
Hardy and Windows XP as virtual machines with Virtualbox. You should be
able to go the other way around I think and run Ubuntu Maverick as a
virtual machine under Windows.

Installing as a virtual machine is a little more technical than
installing on a hard drive but easily doable. If you want guidance just
ask. Loads of folks on here have done it.

Another alternative is to take the hard drive out of the inside of the
PC (assuming that it's a proper computer not a laptop) and put it into a
caddy system that loads drives into a drawer on the front of the PC.
Caddies cost several pounds per drawer and I find them invaluable,
although the fans in the ones I got are rubbish and need to be replaced
sometime. Hard drives are so cheap these days that the cost of having an
extra one isn't worth worrying about.

Dave




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Old 12-07-2010, 07:52 PM
Colin Law
 
Default Wubi paranoid friendly?

On 7 December 2010 18:15, Richard Owlett <rowlett@pcnetinc.com> wrote:
> I date from the era of vacuum tubes and 026's.
> Though I've programed, I'm a user not a programmer.
> I am a Windows(tm) user who wishes to be a *nix user.
>
> I wish to try Ubuntu.
>
> Full install OBVIOUSLY *NOT* acceptable ;/
>
> Dual boot *NOT* acceptable as it requires repartitioning my hard
> drive. I've had bad experiences with repartitioning.

Another possibility in addition to those mentioned by others would be
to spend a few <insert currency here>s and buy a second hard disc.
Then you can install Ubuntu on the second one and dual boot without
re-partitioning the existing disk.

>
> I've already gone the "live" CD/USB route which proves that my
> hardware is minimally compliant
>
> !!! *BUT* !!!
>
> I'm looking for something indistinguishable from a full install,
> think equivalent of "Turing Test" ;/
>
> Basic question is:
> "How does Wubi mess with my hard drive?"

Others have answered this question, but I will comment that I had a
bad experience with wubi. I installed with no trouble and spent some
time setting up my system and installing a number of apps. It ran
fine for a couple of weeks but then Windows crashed in some way
related to wubi and I could no longer run Ubuntu. It may well be that
my experience is unusual. Of course had I backed up my wubi file then
I could just have restored it. I would vote for one of the virtual
machines or dual booting however.

Colin

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Old 12-08-2010, 12:00 AM
Doug
 
Default Wubi paranoid friendly?

On 12/07/2010 01:37 PM, David Fletcher wrote:
> On Tue, 2010-12-07 at 12:15 -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:
>> I date from the era of vacuum tubes and 026's.
>> Though I've programed, I'm a user not a programmer.
>> I am a Windows(tm) user who wishes to be a *nix user.
>>
>> I wish to try Ubuntu.
>>
>> Full install OBVIOUSLY *NOT* acceptable ;/
>>
>> Dual boot *NOT* acceptable as it requires repartitioning my hard
>> drive. I've had bad experiences with repartitioning.
>>
>> I've already gone the "live" CD/USB route which proves that my
>> hardware is minimally compliant
>>
>> !!! *BUT* !!!
>>
>> I'm looking for something indistinguishable from a full install,
>> think equivalent of "Turing Test" ;/
>>
>> Basic question is:
>> "How does Wubi mess with my hard drive?"
>>
>> I've searched multiple Wubi related pages without an adequate answer.
>>
> I've not tried the wubi installer at all but I successfully run Kubuntu
> Hardy and Windows XP as virtual machines with Virtualbox. You should be
> able to go the other way around I think and run Ubuntu Maverick as a
> virtual machine under Windows.
>
> Installing as a virtual machine is a little more technical than
> installing on a hard drive but easily doable. If you want guidance just
> ask. Loads of folks on here have done it.
>
> Another alternative is to take the hard drive out of the inside of the
> PC (assuming that it's a proper computer not a laptop) and put it into a
> caddy system that loads drives into a drawer on the front of the PC.
> Caddies cost several pounds per drawer and I find them invaluable,
> although the fans in the ones I got are rubbish and need to be replaced
> sometime. Hard drives are so cheap these days that the cost of having an
> extra one isn't worth worrying about.
>
> Dave
>
>
The second hard drive route is obviously foolproof, unless you want both
in the
system at the same time. That's doable, but perhaps with some booting
difficulty for
one system or the other--there has been a thread on one of these lists
for several
weeks now about doing just that.

I haven't had any trouble dual-booting with XP. I have not done it with
Win 7. I have
3 computers--one dedicated to Win 7, one dedicated to PCLinuxOS, and one
laptop,
on which I have XP, PCLOS, Debian, Ubuntu, and MINT, all multi-booted.
The only
trouble I had was with the Grub booter on Ubuntu, which seems to be
buggy, and I
fixed that by using the routine for setting up the booter in PCLOS.
No damage was done to XP anywhere along the way. the trick is always to
have
the Windows system installed first. Then you can install a Linux distro
from a
live boot disk and everything should go smoothly.

(If you're seriously worried, back up your data to CD or DVD before
proceeding.)

I am taking a nite-school course in Unix/Linux, and the students were
forced to use
a virtual machine on Windows XP, because the computer lab is primarily
used for
Windows students, and the department chairman ordered that their minds not
be blown. The virtual machine thing works, but it sucks. It's clumsy to
go thru
a half-dozen steps to get from XP to Ubuntu, it takes a while, and I
don't know
how (or even if) it would work with a printer or a network, since these
are not
configured in this computer lab.

My recommendations, in order are, PCLinuxOs, and MINT. Probably MINT is
just a
little closer to Windows in it's operation. (Please change the very
dark desk-top
screen for something else. This is not difficult.) Third in order would
be Ubuntu,
very closely followed by Debian. I don't like Debian's attitude towards
non-
FOSS programs, even when they are open source and free from pay--if
somebody
other than Debian has the copyright, they won't include it. Fanatics I
don't need!
Stay away from Kubuntu and open-SUSE, or you'll be sorry! (When you get
to be a
Linux mavin you can try them.)

Just my 2. --doug

Blessed are the peacemakers...for they shall be shot at from both sides.
--A. M. Greeley


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Old 12-08-2010, 01:11 AM
MR ZenWiz
 
Default Wubi paranoid friendly?

I suppose that if one simply MUST have multiple OSs on a single piece
of hardware and a) not enough memory for virtual machines or b) enough
patience to wait out the hideously long boot-reboot-reboot sequences
involved, then yes, a multiboot setup would be appropriate.

OTOH, for a person who actually needs access to that many different
OSs, hardware powerful enough to support virtual machines seems to be
a necessity more than a luxury.

For myself, Linux (Ubuntu for now) provides 95% of everything I
actually need on a computer. I have a few programs that only run
under Windows (a CD label-maker, Photoshop and Illustrator), so for
those I use a Windows VM. I also occasionally like to play with other
variations of OSs, such as CentOS 5 and soon Windows 7, just to be
more familiar with those systems and so I know enough to help my
clients who run them - mainly Windows 7, with which I am not that
familiar yet, and for those kinds of situations a VM does me just
fine.

VMs have the huge advantage of not interfering with the base machine
operations while still allowing access to the OS environment of desire
for whatever task doesn't run on the base machine's OS.

I expect I'll be getting a laptop in the not-too-distant future that
has enough power to run a VM (or two), at which time I might actually
use a VM on it, but until then my Ubuntu laptop does more than enough
of what I need a laptop to do, and having Windows as the base OS for
any machine I use is something I have outgrown for many years.

Them's my $0.02.

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Old 12-08-2010, 01:17 AM
ms
 
Default Wubi paranoid friendly?

On 07/12/10 18:15, Richard Owlett wrote:
> I date from the era of vacuum tubes and 026's.
> Though I've programed, I'm a user not a programmer.
> I am a Windows(tm) user who wishes to be a *nix user.
>
> I wish to try Ubuntu.
>
> Full install OBVIOUSLY *NOT* acceptable ;/
>
> Dual boot *NOT* acceptable as it requires repartitioning my hard
> drive. I've had bad experiences with repartitioning.

Be less paranoid and repartition. The Ubuntu installer will do it for
you. Do a backup of your stuff of course before, but it's safe, really.

>
> I've already gone the "live" CD/USB route which proves that my
> hardware is minimally compliant
>
> !!! *BUT* !!!
>
> I'm looking for something indistinguishable from a full install,
> think equivalent of "Turing Test" ;/
>
> Basic question is:
> "How does Wubi mess with my hard drive?"
>
> I've searched multiple Wubi related pages without an adequate answer.
>
>
>
>
>


--
Massimo Sandal, Ph.D.
http://devicerandom.org

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Old 12-08-2010, 02:12 AM
Ric Moore
 
Default Wubi paranoid friendly?

On Wed, 2010-12-08 at 02:17 +0000, ms wrote:
> On 07/12/10 18:15, Richard Owlett wrote:
> > I date from the era of vacuum tubes and 026's.
> > Though I've programed, I'm a user not a programmer.
> > I am a Windows(tm) user who wishes to be a *nix user.
> >
> > I wish to try Ubuntu.
> >
> > Full install OBVIOUSLY *NOT* acceptable ;/
> >
> > Dual boot *NOT* acceptable as it requires repartitioning my hard
> > drive. I've had bad experiences with repartitioning.
>
> Be less paranoid and repartition. The Ubuntu installer will do it for
> you. Do a backup of your stuff of course before, but it's safe, really.

I think it's safe to say that everyone of us, on this list,
repartitioned our hard drives to install Ubuntu or another distro, at
one point or another. So, while it may not be acceptable to you, you are
in a minority of one. If it didn't work, none of us would be here.

If you're not a programmer and just a casual user, a full install is not
"OBVIOUSLY *NOT* acceptable". As a matter of fact, it is OBVIOUSLY
acceptable. I haven't run Windows since 3.1. I've managed just fine.
Ric

--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
Linux user# 44256


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Old 12-08-2010, 03:37 AM
Billie Walsh
 
Default Wubi paranoid friendly?

On 12/07/2010 12:15 PM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> I date from the era of vacuum tubes and 026's.
> Though I've programed, I'm a user not a programmer.
> I am a Windows(tm) user who wishes to be a *nix user.
>

I'm also just an average home computer user. I made the switch several
years ago and have never been sorry. I'm still not a *nix wizard but I
use it as my primary OS.

> I wish to try Ubuntu.
>

If I might make a suggestion, KDE is much closer to Windows in it's
layout than Gnome. You will feel more at home with Kubuntu.

> Full install OBVIOUSLY *NOT* acceptable ;/
>

I'm not sure What you mean by a "full install". I don't think I have
ever heard of a partial install. Either it is or it isn't.

> Dual boot *NOT* acceptable as it requires repartitioning my hard
> drive. I've had bad experiences with repartitioning.
>

I won't say that nothing can go wrong because it is possible to trash
the system. At different times I've repartitioned my hard drives for
dual install with Windows, on the theory that Windows might not trash
the it's own files, and just let the installer take care of it. Either
way I've never had an issue. Recent *ubuntu installers seem to have the
repartition down pretty well.

> I've already gone the "live" CD/USB route which proves that my
> hardware is minimally compliant
>
> !!! *BUT* !!!
>
> I'm looking for something indistinguishable from a full install,
> think equivalent of "Turing Test" ;/
>
> Basic question is:
> "How does Wubi mess with my hard drive?"
>
> I've searched multiple Wubi related pages without an adequate answer.
>

The one time I tried the Wubi install I couldn't tell the difference
between that and a normal install, other than Wubi used the Windows boot
loader rather than Grub. I still had to restart the computer to switch
between Windows and Kubuntu. IMHO, don't bother with Wubi. Just do a
regular install.

One suggestion to not have to mess with your Windows install is to use a
second drive [ if your computer is a desktop ] as others have said. If
you install on a "slave" drive the master boot sector will be over
written but your Windows files won't be bothered in the least. If you
make the Windows drive the "slave" and install *ubuntu on the new one as
the "master" you won't even do that.

If you *REALLY* want to give "*nix" a spin I would suggest that you just
install it and don't look back. Back up anything that is critical of
course just in case.

--
"A good moral character is the first essential in a man." George Washington

_ _... ..._ _
_._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._


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Old 12-08-2010, 06:33 AM
"Mark C. Miller"
 
Default Wubi paranoid friendly?

On 12/07/2010 01:15 PM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> I date from the era of vacuum tubes and 026's.
> Though I've programed, I'm a user not a programmer.
> I am a Windows(tm) user who wishes to be a *nix user.
>
> I wish to try Ubuntu.
>
> Full install OBVIOUSLY *NOT* acceptable ;/
>
> Dual boot *NOT* acceptable as it requires repartitioning my hard
> drive. I've had bad experiences with repartitioning.
>
> I've already gone the "live" CD/USB route which proves that my
> hardware is minimally compliant
>
> !!! *BUT* !!!
>
> I'm looking for something indistinguishable from a full install,
> think equivalent of "Turing Test" ;/
>
> Basic question is:
> "How does Wubi mess with my hard drive?"
>
> I've searched multiple Wubi related pages without an adequate answer.
>
>
>
>
>
Wubi is about as full proof as you can get. I ran several systems under
WUBI for almost a year before I took the plunge and blew out Windows
completely. If it "breaks", it's a simple matter of going into the
control panel and deleting it just like you would any other program.
You can run the full range of back-up options, so any files you create
in Ubuntu [WUBI] can be saved for later use.

One issue I wasn't prepared for at the time I did it for the first time
was the move to OpenOffice.org. I just didn't give my Word processing
requirements a second thought. I'd gotten so used to the Windows mindset
that MS Office is always there, that I was a little shocked to learn I'd
have to learn something new. OOo is a piece of cake, and in my mind
superior to Word, Excel, etc. The "except" you hear coming in that
statement deals with "impress"; it doesn't always like to work with
PowerPoint files; but even that is not a big deal for basic
presentations. I found problems creeping in on slides with boxes of
text, some special effects, and most embedded music.

The on-line community was great getting me started off, and has proved
outstanding since.

I don't think you'll be disappointed with WUBI.

I'll be happy to offer my [limited] help. The beauty of UBUNTU is that
you don't have to be a power user to use the software.

--
Mark C. Miller
mmiller@millermc.net
Indianapolis, Indiana


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