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Old 10-04-2010, 03:12 PM
"Amedee Van Gasse (ub)"
 
Default difference between "do-release-upgrade" and "apt-get dist-upgrade"

I've spent the last few minutes looking for the difference between
"do-release-upgrade" and "apt-get dist-upgrade".

I *know* that there is a difference.
I *know* that "do-release-upgrade" is recommended over editing
sources.list and running "apt-get dist-upgrade".
I can explain it in my own words.

But I am unable to find any *official* documentation on the Ubuntu
website, or developer notes, that explain *why*. Something that explains
in detail *what* it is exactly that "do-release-upgrade" does.

Something that I can link to.


Amedee.


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Old 10-04-2010, 04:11 PM
"Cybe R. Wizard"
 
Default difference between "do-release-upgrade" and "apt-get dist-upgrade"

On Mon, 4 Oct 2010 17:12:05 +0200 (CEST)
"Amedee Van Gasse (ub)" <amedee-ubuntu@amedee.be> wrote:

> I am unable to find any *official* documentation on the Ubuntu
> website, or developer notes, that explain *why*. Something that
> explains in detail *what* it is exactly that "do-release-upgrade"
> does.
>
> Something that I can link to.
>
>
> Amedee.

I have no info to which to link, but I think Alan hit it on the head
when he said that the official method disables 3rd party repositories.
That is likely the single and only thing separating the methods.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
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Winduhs

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Old 10-04-2010, 04:48 PM
Nils Kassube
 
Default difference between "do-release-upgrade" and "apt-get dist-upgrade"

Amedee Van Gasse (ub) wrote:
> I've spent the last few minutes looking for the difference between
> "do-release-upgrade" and "apt-get dist-upgrade".
>
> I *know* that there is a difference.
> I *know* that "do-release-upgrade" is recommended over editing
> sources.list and running "apt-get dist-upgrade".
> I can explain it in my own words.
>
> But I am unable to find any *official* documentation on the Ubuntu
> website, or developer notes, that explain *why*. Something that
> explains in detail *what* it is exactly that "do-release-upgrade"
> does.

From [1]:

| Debian based systems can also be upgraded by using apt-get
| dist-upgrade. However, using do-release-upgrade is recommended
| because it has the ability to handle system configuration changes
| sometimes needed between releases.


Nils

[1] <https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/serverguide/C/installing-upgrading.html>

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Old 10-04-2010, 04:50 PM
Jordon Bedwell
 
Default difference between "do-release-upgrade" and "apt-get dist-upgrade"

On Mon, 2010-10-04 at 11:11 -0500, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> I have no info to which to link, but I think Alan hit it on the head
> when he said that the official method disables 3rd party repositories.
> That is likely the single and only thing separating the methods.

It also backtracks and fixes things like x, applies themes and a few
other things. You can actually view the source for it, because it's on
your computer, it's a set of python scripts. Start with:

vim /usr/bin/do-release-upgrade
Then view all the scripts in: /usr/share/pyshared/DistUpgrade

By application though, it does every step that we would do on Debian, it
just does what we would do manually automatically making it easier for
people and makes the amount of false bugs go down.

Oh, most notably, on a non-GUI install (for example clouds and servers)
it will open up extra SSH ports so if something goes wrong, you have
access to SSH to fix it all. This is a critical mistake a lot sysadmins
make when upgrading, they forget to open up extra SSH ports and start a
second SSH manually.


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Old 10-04-2010, 05:43 PM
Tom H
 
Default difference between "do-release-upgrade" and "apt-get dist-upgrade"

On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Cybe R. Wizard
<cyber_wizard@mindspring.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 4 Oct 2010 17:12:05 +0200 (CEST)
> "Amedee Van Gasse (ub)" <amedee-ubuntu@amedee.be> wrote:
>>
>> I am unable to find any *official* documentation on the Ubuntu
>> website, or developer notes, that explain *why*. Something that
>> explains in detail *what* it is exactly that "do-release-upgrade"
>> does.
>>
>> Something that I can link to.
>
> I have no info to which to link, but I think Alan hit it on the head
> when he said that the official method disables 3rd party repositories.
> That is likely the single and only thing separating the methods.

That can be done manually and is, in fact, recommended in Debian release notes.

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Old 10-04-2010, 06:25 PM
"Cybe R. Wizard"
 
Default difference between "do-release-upgrade" and "apt-get dist-upgrade"

On Mon, 4 Oct 2010 13:43:08 -0400
Tom H <tomh0665@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Cybe R. Wizard
> <cyber_wizard@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, 4 Oct 2010 17:12:05 +0200 (CEST)
> > "Amedee Van Gasse (ub)" <amedee-ubuntu@amedee.be> wrote:
> >>
> >> I am unable to find any *official* documentation on the Ubuntu
> >> website, or developer notes, that explain *why*. Something that
> >> explains in detail *what* it is exactly that "do-release-upgrade"
> >> does.
> >>
> >> Something that I can link to.
> >
> > I have no info to which to link, but I think Alan hit it on the head
> > when he said that the official method disables 3rd party
> > repositories. That is likely the single and only thing separating
> > the methods.
>
> That can be done manually and is, in fact, recommended in Debian
> release notes.
>
If done, doesn't the apt-get method do just what 'release-upgrade -d'
or 'do-release-upgrade do'? IIANM, there is no difference in the end
product; it's just easier on the inexperienced to not need to remember
all the different steps to do.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
When Windows are opened the bugs come in.
Winduhs

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Old 10-04-2010, 07:39 PM
Marius Gedminas
 
Default difference between "do-release-upgrade" and "apt-get dist-upgrade"

On Mon, Oct 04, 2010 at 01:25:50PM -0500, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> On Mon, 4 Oct 2010 13:43:08 -0400
> Tom H <tomh0665@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Cybe R. Wizard
> > <cyber_wizard@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > > On Mon, 4 Oct 2010 17:12:05 +0200 (CEST)
> > > "Amedee Van Gasse (ub)" <amedee-ubuntu@amedee.be> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I am unable to find any *official* documentation on the Ubuntu
> > >> website, or developer notes, that explain *why*. Something that
> > >> explains in detail *what* it is exactly that "do-release-upgrade"
> > >> does.
> > >>
> > >> Something that I can link to.
> > >
> > > I have no info to which to link, but I think Alan hit it on the head
> > > when he said that the official method disables 3rd party
> > > repositories. That is likely the single and only thing separating
> > > the methods.
> >
> > That can be done manually and is, in fact, recommended in Debian
> > release notes.
> >
> If done, doesn't the apt-get method do just what 'release-upgrade -d'
> or 'do-release-upgrade do'? IIANM, there is no difference in the end
> product; it's just easier on the inexperienced to not need to remember
> all the different steps to do.

I seem to remember people who developed do-release-upgrade mentioning
other things like telling apt about which packages are no longer
important and can be removed, to ease transitions. Apparently apt-get
dist-upgrade doesn't get every case right.

(Aptitude is recommended as the default dpkg frontend for the same
reason: supposedly its dependency resolver is smarter.)

Marius Gedminas
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Old 10-04-2010, 08:03 PM
Alan Pope
 
Default difference between "do-release-upgrade" and "apt-get dist-upgrade"

On 4 October 2010 19:25, Cybe R. Wizard <cyber_wizard@mindspring.com> wrote:
> If done, doesn't the apt-get method do just what 'release-upgrade -d'
> or 'do-release-upgrade do'? *IIANM, there is no difference in the end
> product; it's just easier on the inexperienced to not need to remember
> all the different steps to do.

No, as I mentioned in my other mail, do-release-upgrade and
update-manager work around specific known quirks in the upgrade
process that apt-get/aptitude/dpkg don't cater for themselves.

Al.

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Old 10-04-2010, 08:11 PM
Florian Diesch
 
Default difference between "do-release-upgrade" and "apt-get dist-upgrade"

"Cybe R. Wizard" <cyber_wizard@mindspring.com> writes:

> On Mon, 4 Oct 2010 13:43:08 -0400
> Tom H <tomh0665@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Cybe R. Wizard
>> <cyber_wizard@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> > On Mon, 4 Oct 2010 17:12:05 +0200 (CEST)
>> > "Amedee Van Gasse (ub)" <amedee-ubuntu@amedee.be> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I am unable to find any *official* documentation on the Ubuntu
>> >> website, or developer notes, that explain *why*. Something that
>> >> explains in detail *what* it is exactly that "do-release-upgrade"
>> >> does.
>> >>
>> >> Something that I can link to.
>> >
>> > I have no info to which to link, but I think Alan hit it on the head
>> > when he said that the official method disables 3rd party
>> > repositories. That is likely the single and only thing separating
>> > the methods.
>>
>> That can be done manually and is, in fact, recommended in Debian
>> release notes.
>>
> If done, doesn't the apt-get method do just what 'release-upgrade -d'
> or 'do-release-upgrade do'?

No. do-release-upgrade downloads the real upgrade program from the
server
(http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-proposed/main/dist-upgrader-all/current/lucid.tar.gz
for 10.04). This program contains up-to-date fixes for problems that
can't be handled by the packages themselves, e.g. enforcing some
packages to get upgraded first even is this is not enforced by
dependencies, and some code for clean up after the upgrade.



Florian
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<http://www.florian-diesch.de/software/pdfrecycle/>

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Old 10-04-2010, 08:11 PM
Tom H
 
Default difference between "do-release-upgrade" and "apt-get dist-upgrade"

On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 3:39 PM, Marius Gedminas <marius@pov.lt> wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 04, 2010 at 01:25:50PM -0500, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
>> On Mon, 4 Oct 2010 13:43:08 -0400
>> Tom H <tomh0665@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Cybe R. Wizard
>> > <cyber_wizard@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> > > On Mon, 4 Oct 2010 17:12:05 +0200 (CEST)
>> > > "Amedee Van Gasse (ub)" <amedee-ubuntu@amedee.be> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> I am unable to find any *official* documentation on the Ubuntu
>> > >> website, or developer notes, that explain *why*. Something that
>> > >> explains in detail *what* it is exactly that "do-release-upgrade"
>> > >> does.
>> > >>
>> > >> Something that I can link to.
>> > >
>> > > I have no info to which to link, but I think Alan hit it on the head
>> > > when he said that the official method disables 3rd party
>> > > repositories. That is likely the single and only thing separating
>> > > the methods.
>> >
>> > That can be done manually and is, in fact, recommended in Debian
>> > release notes.
>> >
>> If done, doesn't the apt-get method do just what 'release-upgrade -d'
>> or 'do-release-upgrade do'? IIANM, there is no difference in the end
>> product; it's just easier on the inexperienced to not need to remember
>> all the different steps to do.
>
> I seem to remember people who developed do-release-upgrade mentioning
> other things like telling apt about which packages are no longer
> important and can be removed, to ease transitions. Apparently apt-get
> dist-upgrade doesn't get every case right.
>
> (Aptitude is recommended as the default dpkg frontend for the same
> reason: supposedly its dependency resolver is smarter.)

Apparently, apt-get is now just as good, if not better (there was a
post on debian-user to that effect and a request to remove the line in
the Debian manual that recommends aptitude over apt-get).

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