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Old 09-25-2010, 09:31 AM
Tim Frost
 
Default Which is the best choice, pae or x64?

On Sat, 2010-09-25 at 16:06 +0800, Rofail Qu wrote:
> My PC is x86 arch and has 4GB of mem.

> So, i think it support x64 as well.
> The question is, which kernel should i choose? The pae or x64?
> Which is the best choice?

With 4GB RAM, things are marginal.

If this is your desktop (or laptop) workstation, you are probably best
to stay 32-bit, and run the 32-bit PAE kernel to get access to the extra
RAM.

For a system designated to be a server, a 64-bit environment may give a
performance benefit.

> Why?

There are still a lot of user-interface programs that don't work well
(if at all) in a 64-bit environment.

My desktop is 64-bit, but there are a few things that I can't do in the
native desktop (even with the 32-bit compatibility packages), so I use a
32-bit virtual machine to run those applications.

By comparison, there are very few back-end applications that don't
benefit from the 64-bit address space.


> Thanks.
>

Tim


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Old 09-25-2010, 12:16 PM
Christopher Chan
 
Default Which is the best choice, pae or x64?

Rofail Qu wrote:
> My PC is x86 arch and has 4GB of mem.
> I tried,
> $ cat /proc/cpuinfo |grep lm
> flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic mtrr pge mca cmov pat
> pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe constant_tsc
> pebs bts pni dtes64 monitor ds_cpl cid xtpr lahf_lm
> flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic mtrr pge mca cmov pat
> pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe constant_tsc
> pebs bts pni dtes64 monitor ds_cpl cid xtpr lahf_lm
>
> So, i think it support x64 as well.
> The question is, which kernel should i choose? The pae or x64?
> Which is the best choice? Why?
> Thanks.
>

What cpu are you using?

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Old 09-25-2010, 12:26 PM
Rofail Qu
 
Default Which is the best choice, pae or x64?

Thanks for reply.
It seems that intel x86 PC with x64 ubuntu don't have performance
benefit from virtualization tech
even though it can run 64-bit applications. Is that true?
Put another way,in spite of compatibility of applications, could an
intel x86 PC running x64 applications surely
give a performance benefit? Apache for example.

2010/9/25 Tim Frost <timfrost@xtra.co.nz>:
> On Sat, 2010-09-25 at 16:06 +0800, Rofail Qu wrote:
>> My PC is x86 arch and has 4GB of mem.
>
>> So, i think it support x64 as well.
>> The question is, which kernel should i choose? The pae or x64?
>> Which is the best choice?
>
> With 4GB RAM, things are marginal.
>
> If this is your desktop (or laptop) workstation, you are probably best
> to stay 32-bit, and run the 32-bit PAE kernel to get access to the extra
> RAM.
>
> For a system designated to be a server, a 64-bit environment may give a
> performance benefit.
>
>> Why?
>
> There are still a lot of user-interface programs that don't work well
> (if at all) in a 64-bit environment.
>
> My desktop is 64-bit, but there are a few things that I can't do in the
> native desktop (even with the 32-bit compatibility packages), so I use a
> 32-bit virtual machine to run those applications.
>
> By comparison, there are very few back-end applications that don't
> benefit from the 64-bit address space.
>
>
>> Thanks.
>>
>
> Tim
>
>
> --
> Tim Frost <timfrost@xtra.co.nz>
>
> --
> ubuntu-users mailing list
> ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
>
>

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Old 09-25-2010, 12:28 PM
Rofail Qu
 
Default Which is the best choice, pae or x64?

Inter Core2 Duo E8400 CPU @ 3.00GHz

2010/9/25 Christopher Chan <christopher.chan@bradbury.edu.hk>:
> Rofail Qu wrote:
>> My PC is x86 arch and has 4GB of mem.
>> I tried,
>> $ cat /proc/cpuinfo |grep lm
>> flags * * * * : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic mtrr pge mca cmov pat
>> pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe constant_tsc
>> pebs bts pni dtes64 monitor ds_cpl cid xtpr lahf_lm
>> flags * * * * : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic mtrr pge mca cmov pat
>> pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe constant_tsc
>> pebs bts pni dtes64 monitor ds_cpl cid xtpr lahf_lm
>>
>> So, i think it support x64 as well.
>> The question is, which kernel should i choose? The pae or x64?
>> Which is the best choice? Why?
>> Thanks.
>>
>
> What cpu are you using?
>
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>

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Old 09-25-2010, 01:03 PM
Christopher Chan
 
Default Which is the best choice, pae or x64?

Rofail Qu wrote:
> Thanks for reply.
> It seems that intel x86 PC with x64 ubuntu don't have performance
> benefit from virtualization tech

Can you express that a bit differently so we can try to understand what
you are trying to ask? Are you asking about 32-bit guests?


> even though it can run 64-bit applications. Is that true?

Virtualization performance 'benefit' and ability to run 64-bit
applications have nothing in common.


> Put another way,in spite of compatibility of applications, could an
> intel x86 PC running x64 applications surely
> give a performance benefit? Apache for example.

An Intel x86 cpu cannot run x64 applications. Your E8400 is NOT a x86
cpu. It is an EMT64 cpu. To run x64 applications, you have to use EMT64
or 64-bit mode (automatically done for you - just install a x64 Ubuntu
distro) which your E8400 is perfectly capable of.


>
> 2010/9/25 Tim Frost <timfrost@xtra.co.nz>:
>> On Sat, 2010-09-25 at 16:06 +0800, Rofail Qu wrote:
>>> My PC is x86 arch and has 4GB of mem.
>>> So, i think it support x64 as well.
>>> The question is, which kernel should i choose? The pae or x64?
>>> Which is the best choice?
>> With 4GB RAM, things are marginal.
>>
>> If this is your desktop (or laptop) workstation, you are probably best
>> to stay 32-bit, and run the 32-bit PAE kernel to get access to the extra
>> RAM.
>>
>> For a system designated to be a server, a 64-bit environment may give a
>> performance benefit.
>>
>>> Why?
>> There are still a lot of user-interface programs that don't work well
>> (if at all) in a 64-bit environment.
>>
>> My desktop is 64-bit, but there are a few things that I can't do in the
>> native desktop (even with the 32-bit compatibility packages), so I use a
>> 32-bit virtual machine to run those applications.
>>
>> By comparison, there are very few back-end applications that don't
>> benefit from the 64-bit address space.
>>
>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tim Frost <timfrost@xtra.co.nz>
>>
>> --
>> ubuntu-users mailing list
>> ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
>>
>>
>


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Old 09-25-2010, 01:07 PM
Christopher Chan
 
Default Which is the best choice, pae or x64?

Rofail Qu wrote:
> Inter Core2 Duo E8400 CPU @ 3.00GHz

I'd go for x64 because I am not sure how good the iommu unit on the
E8400 is in 32-bit PAE mode. Without a iommu, PAE will incurred
performance penalties due to having to use bounce bufferes.


>
> 2010/9/25 Christopher Chan <christopher.chan@bradbury.edu.hk>:
>> Rofail Qu wrote:
>>> My PC is x86 arch and has 4GB of mem.
>>> I tried,
>>> $ cat /proc/cpuinfo |grep lm
>>> flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic mtrr pge mca cmov pat
>>> pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe constant_tsc
>>> pebs bts pni dtes64 monitor ds_cpl cid xtpr lahf_lm
>>> flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic mtrr pge mca cmov pat
>>> pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe constant_tsc
>>> pebs bts pni dtes64 monitor ds_cpl cid xtpr lahf_lm
>>>
>>> So, i think it support x64 as well.
>>> The question is, which kernel should i choose? The pae or x64?
>>> Which is the best choice? Why?
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>> What cpu are you using?
>>


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Old 09-25-2010, 01:19 PM
Karl Larsen
 
Default Which is the best choice, pae or x64?

On 09/25/2010 06:28 AM, Rofail Qu wrote:
> Inter Core2 Duo E8400 CPU @ 3.00GHz
>
> 2010/9/25 Christopher Chan<christopher.chan@bradbury.edu.hk>:
>
>> Rofail Qu wrote:
>>
>>> My PC is x86 arch and has 4GB of mem.
>>> I tried,
>>> $ cat /proc/cpuinfo |grep lm
>>> flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic mtrr pge mca cmov pat
>>> pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe constant_tsc
>>> pebs bts pni dtes64 monitor ds_cpl cid xtpr lahf_lm
>>> flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic mtrr pge mca cmov pat
>>> pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe constant_tsc
>>> pebs bts pni dtes64 monitor ds_cpl cid xtpr lahf_lm
>>>
>>> So, i think it support x64 as well.
>>> The question is, which kernel should i choose? The pae or x64?
>>> Which is the best choice? Why?
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>> What cpu are you using?
>>
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>> ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
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>>
>>
>
I think there might be a language problem here. Your $ cat
/proc/cpuinfo | grep lm is odd If you just use $ cat /proc/cpuinfo it
does print a lot but the last page is good as shown on my computer:

model name : AMD Athlon(tm) Processor LE-1640
stepping : 2
cpu MHz : 1000.000
cache size : 512 KB
fpu : yes
fpu_exception : yes
cpuid level : 1
wp : yes
flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca
cmov pat pse36 clflush mmx fxsr sse sse2 syscall nx mmxext fxsr_opt
rdtscp lm 3dnowext 3dnow up rep_good extd_apicid pni cx16 lahf_lm svm
extapic cr8_legacy 3dnowprefetch
bogomips : 2004.41
TLB size : 1024 4K pages
clflush size : 64
cache_alignment : 64
address sizes : 40 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
power management: ts fid vid ttp tm stc 100mhzsteps

model name : AMD Athlon(tm) Processor LE-1640
stepping : 2
cpu MHz : 1000.000
cache size : 512 KB
fpu : yes
fpu_exception : yes
cpuid level : 1
wp : yes
flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca
cmov pat pse36 clflush mmx fxsr sse sse2 syscall nx mmxext fxsr_opt
rdtscp lm 3dnowext 3dnow up rep_good extd_apicid pni cx16 lahf_lm svm
extapic cr8_legacy 3dnowprefetch
bogomips : 2004.41
TLB size : 1024 4K pages
clflush size : 64
cache_alignment : 64
address sizes : 40 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
power management: ts fid vid ttp tm stc 100mhzsteps

It is clear 64 bit and I am running the 64 bit Ubuntu version
10.04.1 now. I suggest you try what I did and see if you get about the
same stuff. Then load 64 bit and enjoy that.

73 Karl





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Old 09-25-2010, 02:28 PM
Rofail Qu
 
Default Which is the best choice, pae or x64?

> An Intel x86 cpu cannot run x64 applications. Your E8400 is NOT a x86
> cpu. It is an EMT64 cpu. To run x64 applications, you have to use EMT64
Thanks for target my mistake. In my thought, EM64T is the extention of IA-32,
not REAL 64 bit.
so i really want to know is if it could run on a 64-bit ubuntu faster than
on a pae version.
In fact, i have this pc runs on a pae kernel for years.

> or 64-bit mode (automatically done for you - just install a x64 Ubuntu
> distro) which your E8400 is perfectly capable of.

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Old 09-25-2010, 02:44 PM
Rofail Qu
 
Default Which is the best choice, pae or x64?

2010/9/25 Christopher Chan <christopher.chan@bradbury.edu.hk>:
> Rofail Qu wrote:
>> Inter Core2 Duo E8400 CPU @ 3.00GHz
>
> I'd go for x64 because I am not sure how good the iommu unit on the
> E8400 is in 32-bit PAE mode. Without a iommu, PAE will incurred
> performance penalties due to having to use bounce bufferes.
I know E8400 has iommu support for implementation its x86
virtualization technology.
But how good is hard to say.
If there is no one surely answer. I think I can do some test to compare.

>
>
>>
>> 2010/9/25 Christopher Chan <christopher.chan@bradbury.edu.hk>:
>>> Rofail Qu wrote:
>>>> My PC is x86 arch and has 4GB of mem.
>>>> I tried,
>>>> $ cat /proc/cpuinfo |grep lm
>>>> flags * * * * : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic mtrr pge mca cmov pat
>>>> pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe constant_tsc
>>>> pebs bts pni dtes64 monitor ds_cpl cid xtpr lahf_lm
>>>> flags * * * * : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic mtrr pge mca cmov pat
>>>> pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe constant_tsc
>>>> pebs bts pni dtes64 monitor ds_cpl cid xtpr lahf_lm
>>>>
>>>> So, i think it support x64 as well.
>>>> The question is, which kernel should i choose? The pae or x64?
>>>> Which is the best choice? Why?
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>> What cpu are you using?
>>>
>
>
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Old 09-25-2010, 02:58 PM
Christopher Chan
 
Default Which is the best choice, pae or x64?

Rofail Qu wrote:
>> An Intel x86 cpu cannot run x64 applications. Your E8400 is NOT a x86
>> cpu. It is an EMT64 cpu. To run x64 applications, you have to use EMT64
> Thanks for target my mistake. In my thought, EM64T is the extention of IA-32,
> not REAL 64 bit.

Hmm, it looks I need to update my acronyms. It's called Intel 64 now.
Both AMD64 and Intel 64 are extentions of x86 but they are full 64-bit
extentions. AMD was first and they implemented it such that it would be
fully backward compatible with the basic x86 (SSE and so on are another
story) so it is both REAL 64-bit and an extention of the x86 instruction
set.


> so i really want to know is if it could run on a 64-bit ubuntu faster than
> on a pae version.
> In fact, i have this pc runs on a pae kernel for years.

It really depends on whether you are getting memory access penalties due
to having to use bounce buffers.

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