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Old 09-10-2010, 01:16 PM
Mark Widdicombe
 
Default Any suggestions, please?

From: ubuntu-users-bounces@lists.ubuntu.com [ubuntu-users-bounces@lists.ubuntu.com] On Behalf Of Li Li [lili_lilly@charter.net]
Sent: 10 September 2010 02:51 PM
On Fri, 2010-09-10 at 11:23 +0800, Christopher Chan wrote:

>Does "one country, two systems" apply to AC power as well?

Yes. In South Africa we are allegedly on 220V, but if you buy electricity from the supermarket you get lower. I think they sell second hand electrons. If you buy directly from the city online you get the real deal, freshly harvested electrons all the way.

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Old 09-10-2010, 01:27 PM
Colin Law
 
Default Any suggestions, please?

On 10 September 2010 14:16, Mark Widdicombe <mwiddicombe@shoprite.co.za> wrote:
> From: ubuntu-users-bounces@lists.ubuntu.com [ubuntu-users-bounces@lists.ubuntu.com] On Behalf Of Li Li [lili_lilly@charter.net]
> Sent: 10 September 2010 02:51 PM
> On Fri, 2010-09-10 at 11:23 +0800, Christopher Chan wrote:
>
>>Does "one country, two systems" apply to AC power as well?
>
> Yes. *In South Africa we are allegedly on 220V, but if you buy electricity from the supermarket you get lower. *I think they sell second hand electrons. *If you buy directly from the city online you get the real deal, freshly harvested electrons all the way.

I always think it is a bit of confidence trick selling electricity.
The supplier sends us electrons up one wire but we have to send them
back down the other so the supplier ends up with the same number of
electrons he started with, but we still have to pay. It does not seem
right.

Colin

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Old 09-10-2010, 01:57 PM
Basil Chupin
 
Default Any suggestions, please?

On 10/09/2010 23:07, David Fletcher wrote:
> I've not seen anybody else suggest it, so I will.
>
> Anybody who has a PC who is capable of rebuilding/modifying/repairing it,
> should have an ATX power supply tester. They're cheap, easy to use and give
> and instant pass/fail indication. The one I have in my hand also has probe
> points to check the voltages with a multimeter if you want to. For the tenner
> or so it cost, it's saved me a great deal of time and trouble.
>

Such a tester is AUD45 plus delivery - which is about half the price of
a reasonably decent Antec PSU (although the one now under suspicion is
nearly 4 times that price).

> Power supplies can go wrong in various ways. My favourite is when all the
> voltages are present and correct but the signal for the motherboard to boot
> fails to activate. I've seen several do that trick.
>

Which is what I now suspect has occurred - the mobo will not boot if it
doesn't have its special feed of 12V.


> Just buy a tester, keep it handy somewhere, and one day it will pay for itself
> in about 5 minutes.
>
> Dave
>


The manual for the Antec states that the way to test the 12V and 5V
power is to stick probes into the yellow/black for 12V and red/black for
5V on a Molex connector. Doing anything else may do naughty things to
the PSU.

I may do the probing tomorrow.....particularly the special 12V connector
to the mobo which is where I think the problem may lie.

Thanks for the suggestion.

BC

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Old 09-10-2010, 01:58 PM
Basil Chupin
 
Default Any suggestions, please?

On 10/09/2010 22:51, Li Li wrote:
> On Fri, 2010-09-10 at 11:23 +0800, Christopher Chan wrote:
>
>
>> Yeah, me too because we use 220V here in Hong Kong and I am somehow
>> running at 310 (!!!) volts at home according to my digital multimeter. I
>> hope that is not true and that something is amiss about my multimeter
>> but then the previous occupier had recently had the mains replaced so...
>>
>>
> Does your DVM read true RMS? 310 x .707 = 219.17. I suspect not. That
> looks like a peak reading of standard two leg 220 V. I don't remember
> the power arrangements in HK (two phase, three phase, whatever) and it
> has likely changed a lot since I last lived there in the early 70s.
> Does "one country, two systems" apply to AC power as well?
>
> Basil, are you sorted?
Ce`?

"Sorted"?

BC

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Old 09-10-2010, 02:04 PM
Dave Howorth
 
Default Any suggestions, please?

Colin Law wrote:
> I always think it is a bit of confidence trick selling electricity.
> The supplier sends us electrons up one wire but we have to send them
> back down the other so the supplier ends up with the same number of
> electrons he started with, but we still have to pay. It does not seem
> right.

It's worse than that. The supplier basically just shakes the electrons
at you, like tassels on a ????

According to <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_current>
"For example, in a copper wire of cross-section 0.5 mm2, carrying a
current of 5 A, the drift velocity of the electrons is of the order of a
millimetre per second."

So in an AC circuit, the electron would get about 1/100 mm or 10 m
before it turned around and headed back the way it came.

I suppose the good news is that you get to keep your own electrons, that
were inside your coffee maker the whole time.

Cheers, Dave

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Old 09-10-2010, 02:21 PM
Colin Law
 
Default Any suggestions, please?

On 10 September 2010 15:04, Dave Howorth <dhoworth@mrc-lmb.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
> Colin Law wrote:
>> I always think it is a bit of confidence trick selling electricity.
>> The supplier sends us electrons up one wire but we have to send them
>> back down the other so the supplier ends up with the same number of
>> electrons he started with, but we still have to pay. *It does not seem
>> right.
>
> It's worse than that. The supplier basically just shakes the electrons
> at you, like tassels on a ????
>
> According to <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_current>
> "For example, in a copper wire of cross-section 0.5 mm2, carrying a
> current of 5 A, the drift velocity of the electrons is of the order of a
> millimetre per second."
>
> So in an AC circuit, the electron would get about 1/100 mm or 10 m
> before it turned around and headed back the way it came.
>
> I suppose the good news is that you get to keep your own electrons, that
> were inside your coffee maker the whole time.

It is such a downer when ones witty comment gets trumped

Colin

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Old 09-10-2010, 02:29 PM
David Fletcher
 
Default Any suggestions, please?

On Friday 10 Sep 2010, Basil Chupin wrote:
> On 10/09/2010 23:07, David Fletcher wrote:
> > I've not seen anybody else suggest it, so I will.
> >
> > Anybody who has a PC who is capable of rebuilding/modifying/repairing it,
> > should have an ATX power supply tester. They're cheap, easy to use and
give
> > and instant pass/fail indication. The one I have in my hand also has probe
> > points to check the voltages with a multimeter if you want to. For the
tenner
> > or so it cost, it's saved me a great deal of time and trouble.
> >
>
> Such a tester is AUD45 plus delivery - which is about half the price of
> a reasonably decent Antec PSU (although the one now under suspicion is
> nearly 4 times that price).
That converts to GBP27 today which is about twice what I paid for my tester a
couple of years back. Alternatively you could look here:-
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ATX-BTX-PC-Desktop-Computer-Power-Supply-Tester-Tool-/290444159668?pt=AU_Components&hash=item439fd22ab4# ht_3502wt_913
I cannot endorse this one of course, only say that the Antec branded tester I
bought has paid its keep.

There's loads more of these priced in AUD from Hong Kong which you could also
consider.

Dave


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Old 09-10-2010, 02:50 PM
Basil Chupin
 
Default Any suggestions, please?

On 11/09/2010 00:29, David Fletcher wrote:
> On Friday 10 Sep 2010, Basil Chupin wrote:
>
>> On 10/09/2010 23:07, David Fletcher wrote:
>>
>>> I've not seen anybody else suggest it, so I will.
>>>
>>> Anybody who has a PC who is capable of rebuilding/modifying/repairing it,
>>> should have an ATX power supply tester. They're cheap, easy to use and
>>>
> give
>
>>> and instant pass/fail indication. The one I have in my hand also has probe
>>> points to check the voltages with a multimeter if you want to. For the
>>>
> tenner
>
>>> or so it cost, it's saved me a great deal of time and trouble.
>>>
>>>
>> Such a tester is AUD45 plus delivery - which is about half the price of
>> a reasonably decent Antec PSU (although the one now under suspicion is
>> nearly 4 times that price).
>>
> That converts to GBP27 today which is about twice what I paid for my tester a
> couple of years back. Alternatively you could look here:-
> http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ATX-BTX-PC-Desktop-Computer-Power-Supply-Tester-Tool-/290444159668?pt=AU_Components&hash=item439fd22ab4# ht_3502wt_913
> I cannot endorse this one of course, only say that the Antec branded tester I
> bought has paid its keep.
>
> There's loads more of these priced in AUD from Hong Kong which you could also
> consider.
>
> Dave
>

I guess it boils down to pragmatism - and how much you have to do with
PSUs in your daily life.

Considering that since I started fooling around with computers back in
1984 I have had 4 or 5 PSUs fail on me (the jury is still out on the
current one) which is not surprising because they were all the $A10
horrors from Hong Kong installed in the cases I bought.

Spending that amount of money for a tester is that much less money to be
spent on a decent replacement PSU.

But then that's me :-) .

BC

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Old 09-10-2010, 03:24 PM
Christopher Chan
 
Default Any suggestions, please?

> Considering that since I started fooling around with computers back in
> 1984 I have had 4 or 5 PSUs fail on me (the jury is still out on the
> current one) which is not surprising because they were all the $A10
> horrors from Hong Kong installed in the cases I bought.
>

Ahem, Hong Kong has no industry at all and quite a few power supplies
sold here back in the day were actually from the States.

The only Hong Kong related power supplies are the 2themax ones. They
have saved my hide once...only they had ATX form factor redundant power
supplies to power a dual Opteron 242 box that boasted 10 disks, 2 scsi
and 8 ide, the second lot being attached to a 3ware 7508 with 2GB worth
of ECC-RAM. The thing ran (and is probably still running) for years
without issues. Ah yes, those were the days when I dreamed of selling
servers only to barely get the components needed to actually build
something decent.

Thank you for subscribing to my blog. I will be here all week!

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Old 09-10-2010, 03:25 PM
Christopher Chan
 
Default Any suggestions, please?

Colin Law wrote:
> On 10 September 2010 15:04, Dave Howorth <dhoworth@mrc-lmb.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>> Colin Law wrote:
>>> I always think it is a bit of confidence trick selling electricity.
>>> The supplier sends us electrons up one wire but we have to send them
>>> back down the other so the supplier ends up with the same number of
>>> electrons he started with, but we still have to pay. It does not seem
>>> right.
>> It's worse than that. The supplier basically just shakes the electrons
>> at you, like tassels on a ????
>>
>> According to <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_current>
>> "For example, in a copper wire of cross-section 0.5 mm2, carrying a
>> current of 5 A, the drift velocity of the electrons is of the order of a
>> millimetre per second."
>>
>> So in an AC circuit, the electron would get about 1/100 mm or 10 m
>> before it turned around and headed back the way it came.
>>
>> I suppose the good news is that you get to keep your own electrons, that
>> were inside your coffee maker the whole time.
>
> It is such a downer when ones witty comment gets trumped
>

Now that you know the level of the competition, you have to raise your
game. :-P

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