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Old 07-22-2010, 04:50 AM
Basil Chupin
 
Default Question 2 of 3: Ubuntu - apt-get and Update Manager

Does anyone know, please, why apt-get and the Update Manager behave in
"different ways"?

By this I mean: I used apt-get update/upgrade and I had upgrades
installed; I then followed this up with the Update Manager "just for
kicks" and found that it picked up more apps to be upgraded - and I
don't mean just one or two but possibly 10. This was a while back and
now I do this everyday - and it happens almost every time: apt-get does
its job and then Update Manager finds more and all this within moments
of apt-get finishing.

Anyone have a suggestion why this occurs?

BC

--
And God created Woman; and to repent He then created Beer.


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Old 07-22-2010, 04:55 AM
M Thomason
 
Default Question 2 of 3: Ubuntu - apt-get and Update Manager

On 22/07/2010 05:50, Basil Chupin wrote:
> Does anyone know, please, why apt-get and the Update Manager behave in
> "different ways"?
>
> By this I mean: I used apt-get update/upgrade and I had upgrades
> installed; I then followed this up with the Update Manager "just for
> kicks" and found that it picked up more apps to be upgraded - and I
> don't mean just one or two but possibly 10. This was a while back and
> now I do this everyday - and it happens almost every time: apt-get does
> its job and then Update Manager finds more and all this within moments
> of apt-get finishing.
>
> Anyone have a suggestion why this occurs?
>
> BC
>

Wild guess here as I only really use apt-get myself, is there any chance
Update Manager is picking up the things like Kernel updates that apt-get
usually holds back and needs a "dist-upgrade" for?

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Old 07-22-2010, 06:25 AM
Basil Chupin
 
Default Question 2 of 3: Ubuntu - apt-get and Update Manager

On 22/07/10 14:55, M Thomason wrote:
> On 22/07/2010 05:50, Basil Chupin wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know, please, why apt-get and the Update Manager behave in
>> "different ways"?
>>
>> By this I mean: I used apt-get update/upgrade and I had upgrades
>> installed; I then followed this up with the Update Manager "just for
>> kicks" and found that it picked up more apps to be upgraded - and I
>> don't mean just one or two but possibly 10. This was a while back and
>> now I do this everyday - and it happens almost every time: apt-get does
>> its job and then Update Manager finds more and all this within moments
>> of apt-get finishing.
>>
>> Anyone have a suggestion why this occurs?
>>
>> BC
>>
>>
> Wild guess here as I only really use apt-get myself, is there any chance
> Update Manager is picking up the things like Kernel updates that apt-get
> usually holds back and needs a "dist-upgrade" for?
>

An intriguing thought - well worth consideration.

It certainly hasn't done any kernel updates that I can recall - today,
for example, there were no kernel updates - but after I read the above I
looked at "man apt-get" and perhaps the more appropriate line command
would be "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" rather than the simple "upgrade"?

(I raise this question because of the fact that I keep reading almost
everywhere that if you want to install something to "sudo apt-get
install xxxxxxxx" or "sudo apt-get upgrade" -- but nobody seems to
emphasise, "Why not use the Update Manager: System>Administration>Update
Manager?".

As the late Professor Sumner Miller here in Sydney, Australia, used to
say on his TV science show, "WHY is this so?!" :-) )

BC


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Old 07-22-2010, 11:48 AM
Billie Walsh
 
Default Question 2 of 3: Ubuntu - apt-get and Update Manager

On 07/22/2010 01:25 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:
> On 22/07/10 14:55, M Thomason wrote:
>
>> On 22/07/2010 05:50, Basil Chupin wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Does anyone know, please, why apt-get and the Update Manager behave in
>>> "different ways"?
>>>
>>> By this I mean: I used apt-get update/upgrade and I had upgrades
>>> installed; I then followed this up with the Update Manager "just for
>>> kicks" and found that it picked up more apps to be upgraded - and I
>>> don't mean just one or two but possibly 10. This was a while back and
>>> now I do this everyday - and it happens almost every time: apt-get does
>>> its job and then Update Manager finds more and all this within moments
>>> of apt-get finishing.
>>>
>>> Anyone have a suggestion why this occurs?
>>>
>>> BC
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Wild guess here as I only really use apt-get myself, is there any chance
>> Update Manager is picking up the things like Kernel updates that apt-get
>> usually holds back and needs a "dist-upgrade" for?
>>
>>
> An intriguing thought - well worth consideration.
>
> It certainly hasn't done any kernel updates that I can recall - today,
> for example, there were no kernel updates - but after I read the above I
> looked at "man apt-get" and perhaps the more appropriate line command
> would be "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" rather than the simple "upgrade"?
>
> (I raise this question because of the fact that I keep reading almost
> everywhere that if you want to install something to "sudo apt-get
> install xxxxxxxx" or "sudo apt-get upgrade" -- but nobody seems to
> emphasise, "Why not use the Update Manager: System>Administration>Update
> Manager?".
>
> As the late Professor Sumner Miller here in Sydney, Australia, used to
> say on his TV science show, "WHY is this so?!" :-) )
>
> BC
>
>
>

At great risk to life and limb [ putting on my asbestos underwear ]

IMHO, Most of the people that give the most help on the list(s) seem to
be _long_ time Linux users. They are most comfortable using the command
line to do everything. They don't trust these new fangled GUI's. I've
been running Linux exclusively for about five years now and still
consider myself a "noob". Being a "non-techie" type average home
computer user I have virtually no command line skills and rely mostly on
the GUI to deal with maintenance on a day to day basis. For me it works.


Perhaps because I don't have a lot of "skills" I seem to have far fewer
issues with my system. 99.9% of my system is "right-out-of-the-box"
installation of the released version. I let the updatemanager deal with
doing it's job and don't interfere. I won't say my system is perfect. It
does have some issues that fall into the "very minor annoyance" range
rather than "my system is screwed" range. Those I can just live with
until something comes along to fix them.

One thing I have noticed for quite a while now is that after a major
upgrade or clean install it seems to take a couple weeks for the system
to "burn in". [ I don't know how else to say it ] It's kind of like
breaking in a new pair of shoes. At first things are kind of flaky but
as time passes it just seems to settle in and works better and better.

--
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Old 07-22-2010, 12:39 PM
Nils Kassube
 
Default Question 2 of 3: Ubuntu - apt-get and Update Manager

Billie Walsh wrote:
> IMHO, Most of the people that give the most help on the list(s) seem
> to be _long_ time Linux users. They are most comfortable using the
> command line to do everything. They don't trust these new fangled
> GUI's.

Well, I use GUI applications a lot but quite often I prefer command line
instructions when I try to help others, even if I would use a GUI
application on my machine. After all it is much easier to just write
something like

type "sudo apt-get install foo" in a terminal

than to describe how to use the GUI application. You would have to
explain it very detailed because the other person may not even know your
favourite GUI package manager. And what if the other person doesn't have
that application installed? The command line instructions would work out
of the box on every Ubuntu flavour while the GUI applications may be
different, depending on the desktop.


Nils

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Old 07-22-2010, 01:45 PM
Karl Larsen
 
Default Question 2 of 3: Ubuntu - apt-get and Update Manager

On 07/21/2010 10:50 PM, Basil Chupin wrote:
> Does anyone know, please, why apt-get and the Update Manager behave in
> "different ways"?
>
> By this I mean: I used apt-get update/upgrade and I had upgrades
> installed; I then followed this up with the Update Manager "just for
> kicks" and found that it picked up more apps to be upgraded - and I
> don't mean just one or two but possibly 10. This was a while back and
> now I do this everyday - and it happens almost every time: apt-get does
> its job and then Update Manager finds more and all this within moments
> of apt-get finishing.
>
> Anyone have a suggestion why this occurs?
>
> BC
>
>
I just got an update using aptitude update/upgrade and got
a fix for grub, 2 large files. I then fired up Update Manager and it did
a few things and said no updates. So I do not have your problem.

73 Karl


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Linux User
#450462 http://counter.li.org.
Key ID = 3951B48D



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Old 07-22-2010, 02:17 PM
C de-Avillez
 
Default Question 2 of 3: Ubuntu - apt-get and Update Manager

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:50:01 +1000
Basil Chupin <blchupin@iinet.net.au> wrote:

> By this I mean: I used apt-get update/upgrade and I had upgrades
> installed; I then followed this up with the Update Manager "just for
> kicks" and found that it picked up more apps to be upgraded - and I
> don't mean just one or two but possibly 10. This was a while back
> and now I do this everyday - and it happens almost every time:
> apt-get does its job and then Update Manager finds more and all this
> within moments of apt-get finishing.
>
> Anyone have a suggestion why this occurs?

From 'man apt-get':

* upgrade is used to install the newest versions of all packages
currently installed on the system from the sources enumerated
in /etc/apt/sources.list. Packages currently installed with new
versions available are retrieved and upgraded; under no
circumstances are currently installed packages removed, or packages
not already installed retrieved and installed. ***New versions of
currently installed packages that cannot be upgraded without
changing the install status of another package will be left at their
current version.*** An update must be performed first so that apt-get
knows that new versions of packages are available.

* dist-upgrade in addition to performing the function of upgrade, also
intelligently handles changing dependencies with new versions of
packages; apt-get has a "smart" conflict resolution system, and it
will attempt to upgrade the most important packages at the expense
of less important ones if necessary. So, dist-upgrade command may
remove some packages. The /etc/apt/sources.list file contains a list
of locations from which to retrieve desired package files. See also
apt_preferences(5) for a mechanism for overriding the general
settings for individual packages.

So, if you are doing 'apt-get upgrade', (1) no package is ever
removed; (2) no non-installed package is installed (because a new
version of an installed package now has a new dependency). As a
result, a package update will be bypassed if either (1) or (2) applies.

Update Manager defaults to something similar to 'apt-get
dist-upgrade', and will install/remove packages as needed.

Cheers,
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Old 07-22-2010, 05:21 PM
NoOp
 
Default Question 2 of 3: Ubuntu - apt-get and Update Manager

On 07/21/2010 09:50 PM, Basil Chupin wrote:
> Does anyone know, please, why apt-get and the Update Manager behave in
> "different ways"?
>
> By this I mean: I used apt-get update/upgrade and I had upgrades
> installed; I then followed this up with the Update Manager "just for
> kicks" and found that it picked up more apps to be upgraded - and I
> don't mean just one or two but possibly 10. This was a while back and
> now I do this everyday - and it happens almost every time: apt-get does
> its job and then Update Manager finds more and all this within moments
> of apt-get finishing.
>
> Anyone have a suggestion why this occurs?

Open the configuration editor (gconf-editor) &

/apps/update-notifier/regular_auto_launch_interval

set to zero.
====
The interval (in days) when auto launching update-manager for normal
updates. Please note that it will auto launch for security updates
immediately. If you set it to "0" it will also launch as soon as updates
become available.
====


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Old 07-23-2010, 03:57 AM
Basil Chupin
 
Default Question 2 of 3: Ubuntu - apt-get and Update Manager

On 23/07/10 03:21, NoOp wrote:
> On 07/21/2010 09:50 PM, Basil Chupin wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know, please, why apt-get and the Update Manager behave in
>> "different ways"?
>>
>> By this I mean: I used apt-get update/upgrade and I had upgrades
>> installed; I then followed this up with the Update Manager "just for
>> kicks" and found that it picked up more apps to be upgraded - and I
>> don't mean just one or two but possibly 10. This was a while back and
>> now I do this everyday - and it happens almost every time: apt-get does
>> its job and then Update Manager finds more and all this within moments
>> of apt-get finishing.
>>
>> Anyone have a suggestion why this occurs?
>>
> Open the configuration editor (gconf-editor)&
>
> /apps/update-notifier/regular_auto_launch_interval
>
> set to zero.
> ====
> The interval (in days) when auto launching update-manager for normal
> updates. Please note that it will auto launch for security updates
> immediately. If you set it to "0" it will also launch as soon as updates
> become available.
> ====
>

Many thanks for this. The alteration has now been put thru.

BC


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