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Old 06-28-2010, 06:10 PM
"Robert P. J. Day"
 
Default installing a package that wants the "wrong" java

just learned that there's a pre-release packaging for ubuntu of some
software i'd like to play with but, alas, it has a *specific*
dependency of sun's java:

... Depends: sun-java6-jdk but it is not installable

which is annoying since i've tested earlier builds with openjdk-6-jdk
and that seems to work fine. so i'd still like to test the package,
would i install it with "apt-get -m" or "apt-get -f" or what?

also, if that software really is compatible with openjdk, would it
make more sense for the vendor to list as its dependency the more
generic "java-compiler" or "java6-sdk" so that either one would
satisfy the dependency? thanks.

rday

--

================================================== ======================
Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA

Top-notch, inexpensive online Linux/OSS/kernel courses
http://crashcourse.ca

Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday
LinkedIn: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday
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Old 06-28-2010, 08:29 PM
NoOp
 
Default installing a package that wants the "wrong" java

On 06/28/2010 11:10 AM, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
>
> just learned that there's a pre-release packaging for ubuntu of some
> software i'd like to play with but, alas, it has a *specific*
> dependency of sun's java:
>
> ... Depends: sun-java6-jdk but it is not installable

$ apt-cache search sun-java6
sun-java6-source - Sun Java(TM) Development Kit (JDK) 6 source files
sun-java6-plugin - The Java(TM) Plug-in, Java SE 6
sun-java6-jre - Sun Java(TM) Runtime Environment (JRE) 6 (architecture
independent files)
sun-java6-jdk - Sun Java(TM) Development Kit (JDK) 6
sun-java6-javadb - Java(TM) DB, Sun Microsystems' distribution of Apache
Derby
sun-java6-fonts - Lucida TrueType fonts (from the Sun JRE)
sun-java6-demo - Sun Java(TM) Development Kit (JDK) 6 demos and examples
sun-java6-bin - Sun Java(TM) Runtime Environment (JRE) 6 (architecture
dependent files)



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Old 06-28-2010, 08:57 PM
Florian Diesch
 
Default installing a package that wants the "wrong" java

"Robert P. J. Day" <rpjday@crashcourse.ca> writes:

> just learned that there's a pre-release packaging for ubuntu of some
> software i'd like to play with but, alas, it has a *specific*
> dependency of sun's java:
>
> ... Depends: sun-java6-jdk but it is not installable

sun-java6-jdk is in multiverse for 8.04-9.10 and in ubuntu-partner for
10.04

> also, if that software really is compatible with openjdk, would it
> make more sense for the vendor to list as its dependency the more
> generic "java-compiler" or "java6-sdk" so that either one would
> satisfy the dependency? thanks.

I think so. But you better ask at the developer mailing list what's the
current best practise. Maybe someone could update
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaPolicy


Florian
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Old 06-29-2010, 06:27 PM
"Robert P. J. Day"
 
Default installing a package that wants the "wrong" java

On Mon, 28 Jun 2010, Florian Diesch wrote:

> "Robert P. J. Day" <rpjday@crashcourse.ca> writes:

... snip ...

> > also, if that software really is compatible with openjdk, would
> > it make more sense for the vendor to list as its dependency the
> > more generic "java-compiler" or "java6-sdk" so that either one
> > would satisfy the dependency? thanks.
>
> I think so. But you better ask at the developer mailing list what's
> the current best practise. Maybe someone could update
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaPolicy

here's a more specific question -- is there a way to package
software such that it depends on the meta(?)package java6-sdk, but it
"prefers" sun's java as opposed to openjdk? i'm sure that's a bad way
of phrasing it, but the vendor is nervous about allowing openjdk as an
alternative, even though it seems to work. the vendor admits that
using openjdk passes all the tests, it just generates piles of
warnings.

my attitude is, i'm fine with openjdk not being *officially*
supported, i just want the *option* of it satisfying the dependency.
is there a way that this sort of thing is done in packaging? maybe an
installation dialog of the form, "i officially support sun's java, but
i see you have openjdk installed -- are you sure you want to do this?"

rday

--

================================================== ======================
Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA

Top-notch, inexpensive online Linux/OSS/kernel courses
http://crashcourse.ca

Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday
LinkedIn: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday
================================================== ======================

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Old 06-29-2010, 07:50 PM
Florian Diesch
 
Default installing a package that wants the "wrong" java

"Robert P. J. Day" <rpjday@crashcourse.ca> writes:

> On Mon, 28 Jun 2010, Florian Diesch wrote:
>
>> "Robert P. J. Day" <rpjday@crashcourse.ca> writes:
>
> ... snip ...
>
>> > also, if that software really is compatible with openjdk, would
>> > it make more sense for the vendor to list as its dependency the
>> > more generic "java-compiler" or "java6-sdk" so that either one
>> > would satisfy the dependency? thanks.
>>
>> I think so. But you better ask at the developer mailing list what's
>> the current best practise. Maybe someone could update
>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaPolicy
>
> here's a more specific question -- is there a way to package
> software such that it depends on the meta(?)package java6-sdk, but it
> "prefers" sun's java as opposed to openjdk?

If you use "sun-java6-sdk | java6-sdk" as dependency the package manager
will accept any package providing java6-sdk and install sun-java6-sdk if
no package providing java6-sdk is already installed


> my attitude is, i'm fine with openjdk not being *officially*
> supported, i just want the *option* of it satisfying the dependency.
> is there a way that this sort of thing is done in packaging? maybe an
> installation dialog of the form, "i officially support sun's java, but
> i see you have openjdk installed -- are you sure you want to do this?"

You could check with update-java-alternatives what's the currently
active Java package and use debconf to display a warning, see the
debconf-devel manpage


Florian
--
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Old 06-29-2010, 08:03 PM
"Robert P. J. Day"
 
Default installing a package that wants the "wrong" java

On Tue, 29 Jun 2010, Florian Diesch wrote:

> You could check with update-java-alternatives what's the currently
> active Java package and use debconf to display a warning, see the
> debconf-devel manpage

um ... from where comes debconf-devel? i've done an apt-cache
search and i don't see the origin of debconf-devel.

rday

--

================================================== ======================
Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA

Top-notch, inexpensive online Linux/OSS/kernel courses
http://crashcourse.ca

Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday
LinkedIn: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday
================================================== ======================

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Old 06-29-2010, 08:21 PM
"Robert P. J. Day"
 
Default installing a package that wants the "wrong" java

On Tue, 29 Jun 2010, Florian Diesch wrote:

> If you use "sun-java6-sdk | java6-sdk" as dependency the package
> manager will accept any package providing java6-sdk and install
> sun-java6-sdk if no package providing java6-sdk is already installed

just to be clear, is that *precisely* what that expression means?
i'm used to the standard "OR" operator being commutative so if i was
reading that expression from a position of pure ignorance (not a
far-fetched notion), i would interpret that as one or the other, and
it didn't matter which.

the way you describe it, i would have to interpret that expression
as "sun-java6-jdk UNLESS java6-sdk (is already installed)"; in other
words, order very much makes a difference. am i reading that
correctly?

rday

--

================================================== ======================
Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA

Top-notch, inexpensive online Linux/OSS/kernel courses
http://crashcourse.ca

Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday
LinkedIn: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday
================================================== ======================

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Old 06-30-2010, 06:41 AM
Florian Diesch
 
Default installing a package that wants the "wrong" java

"Robert P. J. Day" <rpjday@crashcourse.ca> writes:

> On Tue, 29 Jun 2010, Florian Diesch wrote:
>
>> You could check with update-java-alternatives what's the currently
>> active Java package and use debconf to display a warning, see the
>> debconf-devel manpage
>
> um ... from where comes debconf-devel? i've done an apt-cache
> search and i don't see the origin of debconf-devel.

Sorry, it's in the package debconf-doc

Florian
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<http://www.florian-diesch.de/software/easygconf/>

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Old 06-30-2010, 06:52 AM
Florian Diesch
 
Default installing a package that wants the "wrong" java

"Robert P. J. Day" <rpjday@crashcourse.ca> writes:

> On Tue, 29 Jun 2010, Florian Diesch wrote:
>
>> If you use "sun-java6-sdk | java6-sdk" as dependency the package
>> manager will accept any package providing java6-sdk and install
>> sun-java6-sdk if no package providing java6-sdk is already installed
>
> just to be clear, is that *precisely* what that expression means?
> i'm used to the standard "OR" operator being commutative so if i was
> reading that expression from a position of pure ignorance (not a
> far-fetched notion), i would interpret that as one or the other, and
> it didn't matter which.

The dependency is met if one or the other is installed. If the
dependency is *not* met the first package gets installed to resolve
this.

This is often used when declaring dependencies on virtual packages, see
e.g. the dependencies of mailman (debconf-2.0, mail-transport-agent and
httpd are virtual packages). Otherwise apt can't resolve the dependency
automatically.


Florian
--
Simple dict-like Python API for GConf:
<http://www.florian-diesch.de/software/easygconf/>

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Old 06-30-2010, 07:47 AM
"Robert P. J. Day"
 
Default installing a package that wants the "wrong" java

On Wed, 30 Jun 2010, Florian Diesch wrote:

> "Robert P. J. Day" <rpjday@crashcourse.ca> writes:
>
> > On Tue, 29 Jun 2010, Florian Diesch wrote:
> >
> >> You could check with update-java-alternatives what's the currently
> >> active Java package and use debconf to display a warning, see the
> >> debconf-devel manpage
> >
> > um ... from where comes debconf-devel? i've done an apt-cache
> > search and i don't see the origin of debconf-devel.
>
> Sorry, it's in the package debconf-doc

ah, thanks. this might be the solution i was looking for. will
test later when i get the chance.

rday

--

================================================== ======================
Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA

Top-notch, inexpensive online Linux/OSS/kernel courses
http://crashcourse.ca

Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday
LinkedIn: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday
================================================== ======================

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