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Old 05-11-2010, 11:37 AM
Hans de Goede
 
Default Re-thinking the filter-ui

Hi all,

During my bug triaging I've encountered several bugs, mostly wrt
bootloader issues, caused by people not understanding the filter-ui.

People think that they need to select the disks which they want to
install to, so if they for example have 2 disks, 1 with windows,
and 1 free disk, they only select the free disk.

But as this is the filter ui, anaconda then only sees the free disk,
and will write a grub device.map like this:
(hd0) /dev/sdb

While correct for these systems usually is:
(hd0) /dev/sda
(hd1) /dev/sdb

Now one can simply argue that this is a user error, but I have
to agree with the users filing these bugs, that the filter UI is
rather confusing if you don't know what the idea behind it is.

Also note that in the above scenario, we also have a problem
on the clear_disks ui, as one may want to only select sdb to
clear, yet still boot from sda, which is impossible too.

Thus I think we need to re-think how these things works UI-wise.

Some ideas (for F-14):
1) When basic storage configuration is shown, simply skip the
filter UI completely (leaving exclusive disks empty, and behaving
as pre filter-ui and as kickstart still works). This has the
IMHO large advantage of removing the confusion with having 2 disk
selection screens.

2) In the clear disks ui, make the boot device a drop down below
the 2 disk panes, much like it was before the UI changes. As the bugs
we've been getting about it being unclear how to select which disk
to boot from, and the above use case illustrate what we currently
have does not work all that well from a UI pov.

Regards,

Hans

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Old 05-20-2010, 09:41 PM
Chris Lumens
 
Default Re-thinking the filter-ui

> People think that they need to select the disks which they want to
> install to, so if they for example have 2 disks, 1 with windows,
> and 1 free disk, they only select the free disk.

I've tried to take care of some of this confusion with recent string
changes to ui/filter.glade (c8237ba25bef2d749c8fb128516a9fe9e187b55f in
particular), and I'm hoping we can take care of some more of it in
documentation. Still, it's a new screen in partitioning land and will
require getting used to. There's always room for improvement though.

> 1) When basic storage configuration is shown, simply skip the
> filter UI completely (leaving exclusive disks empty, and behaving
> as pre filter-ui and as kickstart still works). This has the
> IMHO large advantage of removing the confusion with having 2 disk
> selection screens.

We could certainly do this. However, it means there's nowhere for the
user to select the boot device, as that's currently only on the
cleardisks screen.

> 2) In the clear disks ui, make the boot device a drop down below
> the 2 disk panes, much like it was before the UI changes. As the bugs
> we've been getting about it being unclear how to select which disk
> to boot from, and the above use case illustrate what we currently
> have does not work all that well from a UI pov.

We could also do that, in which case I'd just want to kill the existing
"Boot Device" column in the right hand pane.

I'm not sure that a drop down fits in the existing UI very well, but
it's worth exploring. What we've currently got is a tradeoff anyway.
The original design included a separate screen for just the boot device
selection, but I wanted to keep the number of new screens to a minimum.
Hence the column that you see today.

If we can come up with a way to make it not look out of place, I'm okay
with adding another widget there.

- Chris

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Old 05-21-2010, 06:29 AM
Hans de Goede
 
Default Re-thinking the filter-ui

Hi,

On 05/20/2010 11:41 PM, Chris Lumens wrote:

People think that they need to select the disks which they want to
install to, so if they for example have 2 disks, 1 with windows,
and 1 free disk, they only select the free disk.


I've tried to take care of some of this confusion with recent string
changes to ui/filter.glade (c8237ba25bef2d749c8fb128516a9fe9e187b55f in
particular), and I'm hoping we can take care of some more of it in
documentation. Still, it's a new screen in partitioning land and will
require getting used to. There's always room for improvement though.



Yes I've seen those changes.


1) When basic storage configuration is shown, simply skip the
filter UI completely (leaving exclusive disks empty, and behaving
as pre filter-ui and as kickstart still works). This has the
IMHO large advantage of removing the confusion with having 2 disk
selection screens.


We could certainly do this. However, it means there's nowhere for the
user to select the boot device, as that's currently only on the
cleardisks screen.



I think you're miss understanding me here, I'm suggesting to not
show the filter ui (just leave exclusive disks empty) and keep showing
the cleardisks screen, so people will still be able to select their
bootdev.


2) In the clear disks ui, make the boot device a drop down below
the 2 disk panes, much like it was before the UI changes. As the bugs
we've been getting about it being unclear how to select which disk
to boot from, and the above use case illustrate what we currently
have does not work all that well from a UI pov.


We could also do that, in which case I'd just want to kill the existing
"Boot Device" column in the right hand pane.



Yes removing the "Boot Device" column is part of the plan.


I'm not sure that a drop down fits in the existing UI very well, but
it's worth exploring. What we've currently got is a tradeoff anyway.
The original design included a separate screen for just the boot device
selection, but I wanted to keep the number of new screens to a minimum.
Hence the column that you see today.

If we can come up with a way to make it not look out of place, I'm okay
with adding another widget there.


Note that the suggestion for switching to a dropdown is mostly driven
by the following usecase: User has 2 disks, wants to install Linux on
disk2 (so wants disk2 in cleardisks) but want the bootloader on disk1,
the current UI does not allow doing this (in a simple way).

Regards,

Hans

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Old 05-21-2010, 09:35 PM
Chris Lumens
 
Default Re-thinking the filter-ui

> >>1) When basic storage configuration is shown, simply skip the
> >>filter UI completely (leaving exclusive disks empty, and behaving
> >>as pre filter-ui and as kickstart still works). This has the
> >>IMHO large advantage of removing the confusion with having 2 disk
> >>selection screens.
> >
> >We could certainly do this. However, it means there's nowhere for the
> >user to select the boot device, as that's currently only on the
> >cleardisks screen.
> >
>
> I think you're miss understanding me here, I'm suggesting to not
> show the filter ui (just leave exclusive disks empty) and keep showing
> the cleardisks screen, so people will still be able to select their
> bootdev.

Oh, I see.

I think if we do that, we'll need to reword the basic vs. advanced
screen. We might also need to redefine what's advanced and what's
basic, too. A system could certainly have a ton of basic devices - in
fact, s390 does since its devices show up as "basic". And we definitely
want those systems to be able to pass through the filter UI. s390 was
one of the primary cases for coming up with all this stuff in the first
place.

So I think what we'd have to do is make it clear to the user that
they're choosing whether they want to filter out their storage devices
or not, and then do the skip.

If you want to open a bug for this, I'll take a look hopefully next
week.

- Chris

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Old 06-01-2010, 11:39 AM
Hans de Goede
 
Default Re-thinking the filter-ui

Hi,

On 05/21/2010 11:35 PM, Chris Lumens wrote:

1) When basic storage configuration is shown, simply skip the
filter UI completely (leaving exclusive disks empty, and behaving
as pre filter-ui and as kickstart still works). This has the
IMHO large advantage of removing the confusion with having 2 disk
selection screens.


We could certainly do this. However, it means there's nowhere for the
user to select the boot device, as that's currently only on the
cleardisks screen.



I think you're miss understanding me here, I'm suggesting to not
show the filter ui (just leave exclusive disks empty) and keep showing
the cleardisks screen, so people will still be able to select their
bootdev.


Oh, I see.

I think if we do that, we'll need to reword the basic vs. advanced
screen. We might also need to redefine what's advanced and what's
basic, too. A system could certainly have a ton of basic devices - in
fact, s390 does since its devices show up as "basic". And we definitely
want those systems to be able to pass through the filter UI. s390 was
one of the primary cases for coming up with all this stuff in the first
place.

So I think what we'd have to do is make it clear to the user that
they're choosing whether they want to filter out their storage devices
or not, and then do the skip.

If you want to open a bug for this, I'll take a look hopefully next
week.


Sorry it took a bit long, but here is a bug for this:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=598420

This bug is against Fedora, but I think this is something we need to
consider for RHEL 6.x too.

Regards,

Hans

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