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Old 12-12-2009, 06:38 AM
Amichai Rotman
 
Default RFC - Archiving Music CDs for Backup Purposes

Hello,

I'd like to make a backup of my 200 and some music CDs. My idea is to use the 'dd' command to convert each of them to an ISO file I could later burn to an empty media (CD-R) and get an exact copy - in case the original gets unusable...



My questions:

1. Is it the right way to go?
2. Will I be able to "play" the CD in Amarok (or any other audio player, for that matter)?
3. If this isn't the right idea - can you give me some others?



My main goal is to store them in digital format that is easy to manage and reproduce in case the original CD gets unusable. Disk space is also an issue. My original idea was to convert them all to FLAC format - but that's about 250 MB per CD...



Thanks!

.:================================================ ====:.

Amichai Rotman

UIN#: 6401746
Registered Linux User#: 201192 [http://counter.li.org/]
Registered Ubuntu User #12851 [http://ubuntucounter.geekosophical.net]



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PLEASE READ: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

.:================================================ ====:.


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Old 12-12-2009, 07:47 AM
Justin Gruenberg
 
Default RFC - Archiving Music CDs for Backup Purposes

On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 1:38 AM, Amichai Rotman <amichai@iglu.org.il> wrote:
> My questions:
>
> 1. Is it the right way to go?
> 2. Will I be able to "play" the CD in Amarok (or any other audio player, for
> that matter)?
> 3. If this isn't the right idea - can you give me some others?
>
> My main goal is to store them in digital format that is easy to manage and
> reproduce in case the original CD gets unusable. Disk space is also an
> issue. My original idea was to convert them all to FLAC format - but that's
> about 250 MB per CD...

You aren't going to have any space savings over FLAC if you're making
exact bit-for-bit copies of the CDs, although you would be able to
mount them and play them in any application that plays cd audio. Each
CD will be as big as 700mb (so you're wasting a lot of space).

Honestly, I'd just rip to mp3 unless you're a serious audiophile.
You have the benefit of adding metadata to all the files, making it
easier to find music instantly. mp3 plays on just about any device.
If the lossless bit is really important to you, go for flac... enough
hard drive for your 100 cds is pretty inexpensive now.

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Old 12-12-2009, 11:01 AM
"Joep L. Blom"
 
Default RFC - Archiving Music CDs for Backup Purposes

Justin Gruenberg wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 1:38 AM, Amichai Rotman <amichai@iglu.org.il> wrote:
>> My questions:
>>
>> 1. Is it the right way to go?
>> 2. Will I be able to "play" the CD in Amarok (or any other audio player, for
>> that matter)?
>> 3. If this isn't the right idea - can you give me some others?
>>
>> My main goal is to store them in digital format that is easy to manage and
>> reproduce in case the original CD gets unusable. Disk space is also an
>> issue. My original idea was to convert them all to FLAC format - but that's
>> about 250 MB per CD...
>
> You aren't going to have any space savings over FLAC if you're making
> exact bit-for-bit copies of the CDs, although you would be able to
> mount them and play them in any application that plays cd audio. Each
> CD will be as big as 700mb (so you're wasting a lot of space).
>
> Honestly, I'd just rip to mp3 unless you're a serious audiophile.
> You have the benefit of adding metadata to all the files, making it
> easier to find music instantly. mp3 plays on just about any device.
> If the lossless bit is really important to you, go for flac... enough
> hard drive for your 100 cds is pretty inexpensive now.
>
You don't need to be an audiophile to not use mp3 as serious backup for
CD's. It depends on the sort of music you want to backup. NEVER use it
for classical music and jazz. I have no experience with other kinds of
music.
Joep (musician)


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Old 12-12-2009, 11:26 AM
Steve
 
Default RFC - Archiving Music CDs for Backup Purposes

On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 12:01:25 -0000, Joep L. Blom <jlblom@neuroweave.nl>
wrote:

> Justin Gruenberg wrote:
>> On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 1:38 AM, Amichai Rotman <amichai@iglu.org.il>
>> wrote:
>>> My questions:
>>>
>>> 1. Is it the right way to go?
>>> 2. Will I be able to "play" the CD in Amarok (or any other audio
>>> player, for
>>> that matter)?
>>> 3. If this isn't the right idea - can you give me some others?
>>>
>>> My main goal is to store them in digital format that is easy to manage
>>> and
>>> reproduce in case the original CD gets unusable. Disk space is also an
>>> issue. My original idea was to convert them all to FLAC format - but
>>> that's
>>> about 250 MB per CD...
>>
>> You aren't going to have any space savings over FLAC if you're making
>> exact bit-for-bit copies of the CDs, although you would be able to
>> mount them and play them in any application that plays cd audio. Each
>> CD will be as big as 700mb (so you're wasting a lot of space).
>>
>> Honestly, I'd just rip to mp3 unless you're a serious audiophile.
>> You have the benefit of adding metadata to all the files, making it
>> easier to find music instantly. mp3 plays on just about any device.
>> If the lossless bit is really important to you, go for flac... enough
>> hard drive for your 100 cds is pretty inexpensive now.
>>
> You don't need to be an audiophile to not use mp3 as serious backup for
> CD's. It depends on the sort of music you want to backup. NEVER use it
> for classical music and jazz. I have no experience with other kinds of
> music.
> Joep (musician)
>
>
A true audiophile would never listen to digitised music anyway:-)

Just rip the CDs to ogg, flac, mp3, whatever, listen to them and carefully
store the CDs away. If a CD, or any other original media, gets damaged
beyond use you have to replace it anyway. Do you backup books.

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Old 12-12-2009, 11:58 AM
"Joep L. Blom"
 
Default RFC - Archiving Music CDs for Backup Purposes

Steve wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 12:01:25 -0000, Joep L. Blom <jlblom@neuroweave.nl>
> wrote:
>
>> Justin Gruenberg wrote:
>>> On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 1:38 AM, Amichai Rotman <amichai@iglu.org.il>
>>> wrote:
>>>> My questions:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Is it the right way to go?
>>>> 2. Will I be able to "play" the CD in Amarok (or any other audio
>>>> player, for
>>>> that matter)?
>>>> 3. If this isn't the right idea - can you give me some others?
>>>>
>>>> My main goal is to store them in digital format that is easy to manage
>>>> and
>>>> reproduce in case the original CD gets unusable. Disk space is also an
>>>> issue. My original idea was to convert them all to FLAC format - but
>>>> that's
>>>> about 250 MB per CD...
>>> You aren't going to have any space savings over FLAC if you're making
>>> exact bit-for-bit copies of the CDs, although you would be able to
>>> mount them and play them in any application that plays cd audio. Each
>>> CD will be as big as 700mb (so you're wasting a lot of space).
>>>
>>> Honestly, I'd just rip to mp3 unless you're a serious audiophile.
>>> You have the benefit of adding metadata to all the files, making it
>>> easier to find music instantly. mp3 plays on just about any device.
>>> If the lossless bit is really important to you, go for flac... enough
>>> hard drive for your 100 cds is pretty inexpensive now.
>>>
>> You don't need to be an audiophile to not use mp3 as serious backup for
>> CD's. It depends on the sort of music you want to backup. NEVER use it
>> for classical music and jazz. I have no experience with other kinds of
>> music.
>> Joep (musician)
>>
>>
> A true audiophile would never listen to digitised music anyway:-)
>
> Just rip the CDs to ogg, flac, mp3, whatever, listen to them and carefully
> store the CDs away. If a CD, or any other original media, gets damaged
> beyond use you have to replace it anyway. Do you backup books.
>
Justin,
That's untrue! All CD's are digital. Or do you mean that the only
musical reproduction to listen to is a vinyl recording? or an audiophile
only listens to a life performance? (as it was >120 years ago).
I agree partly. I record my own performances (jazz piano) on 24-bit (OK,
it's not analogue!) but the commercial recordings I work(ed) on are of
course all 16-bit. But the gist of the matter is that you should never
make a backup with a lesser quality than the original.
About replacing that can sometimes be a problem. Older CD's are often
not available any more (at least with respect to classical music and jazz).
Joep.


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Old 12-12-2009, 06:34 PM
Justin Gruenberg
 
Default RFC - Archiving Music CDs for Backup Purposes

On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 6:58 AM, Joep L. Blom <jlblom@neuroweave.nl> wrote:
> Justin,
> That's untrue! All CD's are digital. Or do you mean that the only
> musical reproduction to listen to is a vinyl recording? or an audiophile
> only listens to a life performance? (as it was >120 years ago).
> I agree partly. I record my own performances (jazz piano) on 24-bit (OK,
> it's not analogue!) but the commercial recordings I work(ed) on are of
> course all 16-bit. But the gist of the matter is that you should never
> make a backup with a lesser quality than the original.
> About replacing that can sometimes be a problem. Older CD's are often
> not available any more (at least with respect to classical music and jazz).
> Joep.

I guess I was mistakenly attributed what Steve said. I have no idea
what a true audiophile would listen to, and I don't really care.

The real question is what the original poster really wants: making cd
images, or converting to another format.

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Old 12-12-2009, 07:11 PM
andrew clarke
 
Default RFC - Archiving Music CDs for Backup Purposes

On Sat 2009-12-12 09:38:30 UTC+0200, Amichai Rotman (amichai@iglu.org.il) wrote:

> I'd like to make a backup of my 200 and some music CDs. My idea is to
> use the 'dd' command to convert each of them to an ISO file I could
> later burn to an empty media (CD-R) and get an exact copy - in case
> the original gets unusable...

I suspect using dd won't work with an audio CD, but even if it does,
I'd assume you'll just end up with a single large file with no useful
track information. The TOC (Table of Contents) of audio CDs isn't
stored in the data part of the disc, so wouldn't be copied.

Most likely regular music player software won't be able to deal with
that file you just (theoretically) made.

Purpose-made CD ripping software has existed for at least 10 years to
rip CDs properly. It talks to the CD-ROM drive to determine the TOC
information. Back in the early days there was AudioCatalyst (for
Windows) and more recently Apple's iTunes. Both will rip an audio
CD's tracks to an uncompressed .wav file if configured properly.

There is equivalent software for Linux. The only one I've had
personal experience with is RubyRipper, with good success.

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CDRipping

Ideally you'd rip to a lossless format like WAV or FLAC if you want to
burn the tracks to CD-R later. FLAC is good because it compresses the
data down to about 50% of the original, and there is plenty of
software to edit the ID tags of each FLAC file. RubyRipper will
collect this information for each CD from the Internet automatically.
Transcoding from FLAC to lossy MP3 is then easily done, and if you use
the right software the ID tags will be copied to the MP3. Or you can
tell RubyRipper to save in both file formats.

Note that after burning your CD's tracks to CD-R, you still won't get
an exact replica of the original CD because the beginning and ending
offsets of the audio rip process are only approximate (within a few
milliseconds). The TOC will be slightly different. Also, the TOC
contains information about the length of intentional silence between
each track, and this info is often not recorded by ripping software.

Regards
Andrew

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Old 12-12-2009, 07:59 PM
Steve
 
Default RFC - Archiving Music CDs for Backup Purposes

On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 12:58:06 -0000, Joep L. Blom <jlblom@neuroweave.nl>
wrote:

> Steve wrote:
>> On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 12:01:25 -0000, Joep L. Blom <jlblom@neuroweave.nl>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Justin Gruenberg wrote:
>>>> On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 1:38 AM, Amichai Rotman <amichai@iglu.org.il>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> My questions:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Is it the right way to go?
>>>>> 2. Will I be able to "play" the CD in Amarok (or any other audio
>>>>> player, for
>>>>> that matter)?
>>>>> 3. If this isn't the right idea - can you give me some others?
>>>>>
>>>>> My main goal is to store them in digital format that is easy to
>>>>> manage
>>>>> and
>>>>> reproduce in case the original CD gets unusable. Disk space is also
>>>>> an
>>>>> issue. My original idea was to convert them all to FLAC format - but
>>>>> that's
>>>>> about 250 MB per CD...
>>>> You aren't going to have any space savings over FLAC if you're making
>>>> exact bit-for-bit copies of the CDs, although you would be able to
>>>> mount them and play them in any application that plays cd audio. Each
>>>> CD will be as big as 700mb (so you're wasting a lot of space).
>>>>
>>>> Honestly, I'd just rip to mp3 unless you're a serious audiophile.
>>>> You have the benefit of adding metadata to all the files, making it
>>>> easier to find music instantly. mp3 plays on just about any device.
>>>> If the lossless bit is really important to you, go for flac... enough
>>>> hard drive for your 100 cds is pretty inexpensive now.
>>>>
>>> You don't need to be an audiophile to not use mp3 as serious backup for
>>> CD's. It depends on the sort of music you want to backup. NEVER use it
>>> for classical music and jazz. I have no experience with other kinds of
>>> music.
>>> Joep (musician)
>>>
>>>
>> A true audiophile would never listen to digitised music anyway:-)
>>
>> Just rip the CDs to ogg, flac, mp3, whatever, listen to them and
>> carefully
>> store the CDs away. If a CD, or any other original media, gets damaged
>> beyond use you have to replace it anyway. Do you backup books.
>>
> Justin,
It wasn’t Justin it was me, Steve.

> That's untrue! All CD's are digital. Or do you mean that the only
> musical reproduction to listen to is a vinyl recording? or an audiophile
> only listens to a life performance? (as it was >120 years ago).
The audiophile comment was something I overheard in a HiFi shop some
months back and wasn’t to be taken seriously, hence the smiley.

> I agree partly. I record my own performances (jazz piano) on 24-bit (OK,
> it's not analogue!) but the commercial recordings I work(ed) on are of
> course all 16-bit. But the gist of the matter is that you should never
> make a backup with a lesser quality than the original.
No argument there.
>
> About replacing that can sometimes be a problem. Older CD's are often
> not available any more (at least with respect to classical music and
> jazz).
This is true of all musical styles.
I also have a collection of books, a lot of which are out of print and
therefore cannot easily be replaced, and are rather problematic to
'backup'.
My suggestion was simply to rip them to a suitable format for listening to
and store the originals away.

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