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Old 11-28-2009, 01:47 PM
 
Default Mac look alike

In all due respects to Apple let me say this. 1) The look and flow of apples OS I find to be better than that of Windows. Granted windows has made great strides (remember the Windows 95 = Mac 89 shirts?).
2) Unfortuatly what Apple has people pay for for the most part is the design. Apple didn't invent the mp3 or the laptop or the smartphone etc. Much of what they have simply looks better
3) The differences apple did have frankly getting to be less and less. Back in the day it ran on the Motorola 68000 family of processors (as did Atari and Amiga) then it went to Power PC...then it switched to intel chips it even had Power Computing as a clone maker until it was bought out. Their OS switched to a more unix based OS starting ten or so years ago (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Unix_history-simple.en.svg ) Granted it isn't fully open source.

I've already heard arguments of does the operating system really matter these days? I'd say the basics of most computers is simply getting on the internet and having an office suite. Once you get to the concept of open sourced products it makes it much easier to change things. I'll admit I've ran that whole Mac4lin program and it actually works quite well. I have the same doc anyway and then there's the background. I could easily fool most people into saying it's a Mac. It reminds me about the logic of a luxury car. If you take a entry level car today and take it back in time say 30 years and that probably was luxury. If you modify something for the look and feel (granted as long as you aren't selling it for a profit because that's a source of lawsuits) you can mimic anything you want.
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Old 11-28-2009, 01:57 PM
Odd
 
Default Mac look alike

mdovell@comcast.net wrote:
> In all due respects to Apple let me say this. 1) The look and flow of
> apples OS I find to be better than that of Windows. Granted windows
> has made great strides (remember the Windows 95 = Mac 89 shirts?). 2)
> Unfortuatly what Apple has people pay for for the most part is the
> design. Apple didn't invent the mp3 or the laptop or the smartphone
> etc. Much of what they have simply looks better

Yep. "Shiny" is what Apple does best.

> 3) The differences apple did have frankly getting to be less and
> less. Back in the day it ran on the Motorola 68000 family of
> processors (as did Atari and Amiga) then it went to Power PC...then
> it switched to intel chips it even had Power Computing as a clone
> maker until it was bought out. Their OS switched to a more unix based
> OS starting ten or so years ago (see
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Unix_history-simple.en.svg )
> Granted it isn't fully open source.
>
> I've already heard arguments of does the operating system really
> matter these days? I'd say the basics of most computers is simply
> getting on the internet and having an office suite.

I agree. The OS doesn't really matter. Apps matter. Linux
has most of what it needs. The only thing I miss is in media
production, ans then specifically in the DAW segment. I wish
there was something as good as Acid Pro on Linux. That's
the only reason I'm still running Windows on my workstation.

> Once you get to the concept of open sourced products it makes it much
> easier to change things.

Indeed. You have the source code, so in theory you can add/subtract
anything you like. That's the great thing about open source.

> I'll admit I've ran that whole Mac4lin program and it actually works
> quite well. I have the same doc anyway and then there's the
> background. I could easily fool most people into saying it's a Mac.
> It reminds me about the logic of a luxury car. If you take a entry
> level car today and take it back in time say 30 years and that
> probably was luxury. If you modify something for the look and feel
> (granted as long as you aren't selling it for a profit because that's
> a source of lawsuits) you can mimic anything you want.

Sure.

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Old 11-28-2009, 09:33 PM
"Joep L. Blom"
 
Default Mac look alike

Odd wrote:
> mdovell@comcast.net wrote:
>> In all due respects to Apple let me say this. 1) The look and flow of
>> apples OS I find to be better than that of Windows. Granted windows
>> has made great strides (remember the Windows 95 = Mac 89 shirts?). 2)
>> Unfortuatly what Apple has people pay for for the most part is the
>> design. Apple didn't invent the mp3 or the laptop or the smartphone
>> etc. Much of what they have simply looks better
>
> Yep. "Shiny" is what Apple does best.
>
>> 3) The differences apple did have frankly getting to be less and
>> less. Back in the day it ran on the Motorola 68000 family of
>> processors (as did Atari and Amiga) then it went to Power PC...then
>> it switched to intel chips it even had Power Computing as a clone
>> maker until it was bought out. Their OS switched to a more unix based
>> OS starting ten or so years ago (see
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Unix_history-simple.en.svg )
>> Granted it isn't fully open source.
>>
>> I've already heard arguments of does the operating system really
>> matter these days? I'd say the basics of most computers is simply
>> getting on the internet and having an office suite.
>
> I agree. The OS doesn't really matter. Apps matter. Linux
> has most of what it needs. The only thing I miss is in media
> production, ans then specifically in the DAW segment. I wish
> there was something as good as Acid Pro on Linux. That's
> the only reason I'm still running Windows on my workstation.
>
>> Once you get to the concept of open sourced products it makes it much
>> easier to change things.
>
> Indeed. You have the source code, so in theory you can add/subtract
> anything you like. That's the great thing about open source.
>
>> I'll admit I've ran that whole Mac4lin program and it actually works
>> quite well. I have the same doc anyway and then there's the
>> background. I could easily fool most people into saying it's a Mac.
>> It reminds me about the logic of a luxury car. If you take a entry
>> level car today and take it back in time say 30 years and that
>> probably was luxury. If you modify something for the look and feel
>> (granted as long as you aren't selling it for a profit because that's
>> a source of lawsuits) you can mimic anything you want.
>
> Sure.
>
If you want to look at a good DAW application, take a look Ardour>
http://ardour.org/

I think it fulfills most( all?) of your wishes.
Joep

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Old 11-29-2009, 02:21 PM
Odd
 
Default Mac look alike

Joep L. Blom wrote:
> Odd wrote:
>> I agree. The OS doesn't really matter. Apps matter. Linux has most
>> of what it needs. The only thing I miss is in media production, ans
>> then specifically in the DAW segment. I wish there was something as
>> good as Acid Pro on Linux. That's the only reason I'm still running
>> Windows on my workstation.
>
> If you want to look at a good DAW application, take a look Ardour>
> http://ardour.org/
>
> I think it fulfills most( all?) of your wishes. Joep

It's been a long time since I looked at it. Looks like it has improved
a LOT. I'll have to take a closer look a it. Thanks.

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Old 11-29-2009, 02:23 PM
 
Default Mac look alike

"It's not ridiculous. Most people don't know that free/libre exists.
It's our job to educate them. And we have to take into account
what software people use. I think in most cases, they only need
an office suite, mail, browsing and IM. If so, Linux is a very
good alternative. If they are using, say, Photoshop otoh, Linux is
not such a good alternative, despite of Gimp."

That's true. The other thing its getting much easier for Linux as a whole to use. Back in 2000 I was interested and tried RedHat. My hard drive created a partition...but unfortunately there was no boot loader (i.e Grub). As a result I gave up. Compair that to ubuntu now and you can pop in a usb or a cd and be set...wubi works for my home desktop and the usb worked on my laptop. Obviously other operating systems have their user base. I just got sick of windows for the most part. In places where I've worked it was interesting to see what was used. Panic attacks over viruses mandated at one place to use a virus scanner....which took well over an hour a day! In another place they use linux somewhat but it's still mostly command line (no gui? why?). There's so many places that could easily use the OS but for some reason they like spending more money on things. Emulation I think might bridge some of this gap. Applications I saw much of the time were old DOS ones which were emulated in windows.
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Old 11-29-2009, 02:48 PM
Odd
 
Default Mac look alike

mdovell@comcast.net wrote:
> "It's not ridiculous. Most people don't know that free/libre exists.
> It's our job to educate them. And we have to take into account what
> software people use. I think in most cases, they only need an office
> suite, mail, browsing and IM. If so, Linux is a very good
> alternative. If they are using, say, Photoshop otoh, Linux is not
> such a good alternative, despite of Gimp."
>
> That's true. The other thing its getting much easier for Linux as a
> whole to use. Back in 2000 I was interested and tried RedHat. My hard
> drive created a partition...but unfortunately there was no boot
> loader (i.e Grub). As a result I gave up. Compair that to ubuntu now
> and you can pop in a usb or a cd and be set...wubi works for my home
> desktop and the usb worked on my laptop. Obviously other operating
> systems have their user base. I just got sick of windows for the most
> part.

I know what you mean.

> In places where I've worked it was interesting to see what was used.
> Panic attacks over viruses mandated at one place to use a virus
> scanner....which took well over an hour a day!

A workplace should really lock down what employees are allowed
to do on their computers. There are solutions for that, like AD.

> In another place they use linux somewhat but it's still mostly
> command line (no gui? why?).

Perhaps they don't need it? I don't use a gui on my Debian servers.

> There's so many places that could easily use the OS but for some
> reason they like spending more money on things.

It's not that simple, though. For instance, I worked at a place some
years ago where another person and I introduced Linux for server
usage. But the boss was weary, because we were the only ones
who knew how to use them. So, while Linux is free, it is also a
matter of knowledge in how to use it.

> Emulation I think might bridge some of this gap. Applications I saw
> much of the time were old DOS ones which were emulated in windows.

Lots of places have DOS-based legacy software they use. As long
as it works, they don't see the need to upgrade.

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Old 11-29-2009, 04:39 PM
"Bob"
 
Default Mac look alike

´╗┐


Is there a way to run a gui for the
server end? Someone like myself that is tired of using MS does not┬* have a
whole lot of time entering and learning code. I would love to use Umbuntu but
for 100.00 for ms server home it seems almost worth it to stay with MS.

┬*
Any help would be
great!!
┬*
Bob

----- Original Message -----
From:
mdovell@comcast.net
To: ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com

Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 10:23
AM
Subject: re: Mac look alike


"It's not
ridiculous. Most people don't know that free/libre exists.
It's our job to
educate them. And we have to take into account
what software people use. I
think in most cases, they only need
an office suite, mail, browsing and IM.
If so, Linux is a very
good alternative. If they are using, say, Photoshop
otoh, Linux is
not such a good alternative, despite of Gimp."

That's
true. The other thing its getting much easier for Linux as a whole to use.
Back in 2000 I was interested and tried RedHat. My hard drive created a
partition...but unfortunately there was no boot loader (i.e Grub). As a result
I gave up. Compair that to ubuntu now and you can pop in a usb or a cd and be
set...wubi works for my home desktop and the usb worked on my laptop.
Obviously other operating systems have their user base. I just got sick of
windows for the most part. In places where I've worked it was interesting to
see what was used. Panic attacks over viruses mandated at one place to use a
virus scanner....which took well over an hour a day! In another place they use
linux somewhat but it's still mostly command line (no gui? why?). There's so
many places that could easily use the OS but for some reason they like
spending more money on things. Emulation I think might bridge some of this
gap. Applications I saw much of the time were old DOS ones which were emulated
in windows.







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list
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Old 11-29-2009, 05:44 PM
 
Default mac look alike

"A workplace should really lock down what employees are allowed
to do on their computers. There are solutions for that, like AD."

They were more concerned because there was one virus that spread around (2002 or 2003) I remember it because it went from company to company. It maximized resources to nearly 100% and took an hour to fully cure per computer...that was a long day. Eventually we got tired of running the anti virus checkers
because they never really found anything and stripping out five hours of productivity a week wasn't worth it.

> In another place they use linux somewhat but it's still mostly
> command line (no gui? why?).

"Perhaps they don't need it? I don't use a gui on my Debian servers."

It isn't so much of a need than a want because new employees aren't used to using it and GUI would make things significantly easier. It was also quite embarrasing to try to sell customers on things since there is hardly any graphics or photos being displayed at all. A radio shack TRS-80 had a more comprehensive display than what this company used.

> There's so many places that could easily use the OS but for some
> reason they like spending more money on things.

"It's not that simple, though. For instance, I worked at a place some
years ago where another person and I introduced Linux for server
usage. But the boss was weary, because we were the only ones
who knew how to use them. So, while Linux is free, it is also a
matter of knowledge in how to use it."

True but the place is a company with a market cap of billions. They would have to send people from North Carolina all over the country rather than hire someone locally or at least instruct people as to what could be done. Sure there's a lack of trust but you can't do that on a national scale for long...and now they want to expand overseas!

> Emulation I think might bridge some of this gap. Applications I saw
> much of the time were old DOS ones which were emulated in windows.

"Lots of places have DOS-based legacy software they use. As long
as it works, they don't see the need to upgrade."

That's certainly true and at least if they won't see a return on investment. But the trouble with that is if a system is too proprietary it could turn off other companies from doing business with it. And if a vendor goes out of business well you can forget that system lasting long. I know a place that still uses Wangs! Once those break down forget it there's no repair man. They actually used OS/2 warp with dos unless you have someone inhouse for the long term to work on it then it won't work well.*

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Old 11-29-2009, 06:44 PM
Andrew Kane
 
Default Mac look alike

Bob, you can run all the servers you want from regular Ubuntu, and
take advantage of the GUI it provides. Lots of servers have graphical
interfaces available for configuration (gadmin, for example), and
there are a few different Web-based remote administration tools like
phpmyadmin or Webmin that look nice, work great, and require only a
web server to run.


On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 9:39 AM, Bob <bob@theoriginalgrassmasters.com> wrote:
> Is there a way to run a gui for the server end? Someone like myself that is
> tired of using MS does not* have a whole lot of time entering and learning
> code. I would love to use Umbuntu but for 100.00 for ms server home it seems
> almost worth it to stay with MS.
>
> Any help would be great!!
>
> Bob
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: mdovell@comcast.net
> To: ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 10:23 AM
> Subject: re: Mac look alike
> "It's not ridiculous. Most people don't know that free/libre exists.
> It's our job to educate them. And we have to take into account
> what software people use. I think in most cases, they only need
> an office suite, mail, browsing and IM. If so, Linux is a very
> good alternative. If they are using, say, Photoshop otoh, Linux is
> not such a good alternative, despite of Gimp."
>
> That's true. The other thing its getting much easier for Linux as a whole to
> use. Back in 2000 I was interested and tried RedHat. My hard drive created a
> partition...but unfortunately there was no boot loader (i.e Grub). As a
> result I gave up. Compair that to ubuntu now and you can pop in a usb or a
> cd and be set...wubi works for my home desktop and the usb worked on my
> laptop. Obviously other operating systems have their user base. I just got
> sick of windows for the most part. In places where I've worked it was
> interesting to see what was used. Panic attacks over viruses mandated at one
> place to use a virus scanner....which took well over an hour a day! In
> another place they use linux somewhat but it's still mostly command line (no
> gui? why?). There's so many places that could easily use the OS but for some
> reason they like spending more money on things. Emulation I think might
> bridge some of this gap. Applications I saw much of the time were old DOS
> ones which were emulated in windows.
>
> ________________________________
>
> --
> ubuntu-users mailing list
> ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
>
> --
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>

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Old 11-29-2009, 09:51 PM
"Bob"
 
Default Mac look alike

Thank you. I would love to give it a try!
MS Really irritates me. ;o)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Kane" <googoleyes@gmail.com>
To: "Ubuntu user technical support,not for general discussions"
<ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: Mac look alike


Bob, you can run all the servers you want from regular Ubuntu, and
take advantage of the GUI it provides. Lots of servers have graphical
interfaces available for configuration (gadmin, for example), and
there are a few different Web-based remote administration tools like
phpmyadmin or Webmin that look nice, work great, and require only a
web server to run.


On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 9:39 AM, Bob <bob@theoriginalgrassmasters.com>
wrote:
> Is there a way to run a gui for the server end? Someone like myself that
> is
> tired of using MS does not have a whole lot of time entering and learning
> code. I would love to use Umbuntu but for 100.00 for ms server home it
> seems
> almost worth it to stay with MS.
>
> Any help would be great!!
>
> Bob
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: mdovell@comcast.net
> To: ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 10:23 AM
> Subject: re: Mac look alike
> "It's not ridiculous. Most people don't know that free/libre exists.
> It's our job to educate them. And we have to take into account
> what software people use. I think in most cases, they only need
> an office suite, mail, browsing and IM. If so, Linux is a very
> good alternative. If they are using, say, Photoshop otoh, Linux is
> not such a good alternative, despite of Gimp."
>
> That's true. The other thing its getting much easier for Linux as a whole
> to
> use. Back in 2000 I was interested and tried RedHat. My hard drive created
> a
> partition...but unfortunately there was no boot loader (i.e Grub). As a
> result I gave up. Compair that to ubuntu now and you can pop in a usb or a
> cd and be set...wubi works for my home desktop and the usb worked on my
> laptop. Obviously other operating systems have their user base. I just got
> sick of windows for the most part. In places where I've worked it was
> interesting to see what was used. Panic attacks over viruses mandated at
> one
> place to use a virus scanner....which took well over an hour a day! In
> another place they use linux somewhat but it's still mostly command line
> (no
> gui? why?). There's so many places that could easily use the OS but for
> some
> reason they like spending more money on things. Emulation I think might
> bridge some of this gap. Applications I saw much of the time were old DOS
> ones which were emulated in windows.
>
> ________________________________
>
> --
> ubuntu-users mailing list
> ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
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>

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