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Pierre Frenkiel 11-25-2009 10:18 AM

Karmic: stop: Unknown instance
 
the scripts in /etc/init.d are supposed to be obsolete in Karmic, but the upstart
system which is supposed to replace them only works with "start", and not
for any other command:

==> service networking restart
restart: Unknown instance:

==> service networking stop
stop: Unknown instance:

==> stop networking
stop: Unknown instance:

==> /etc/init.d/networking stop
* Deconfiguring network interfaces...
* Deconfiguring network interfaces...
...done.

==> service networking start
networking stop/waiting

So, if /etc/init.d/networking is no more to be used, what am I supposed to
do when I need to restart the network?

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Tom H 11-25-2009 11:49 AM

Karmic: stop: Unknown instance
 
> the scripts in /etc/init.d are supposed to be obsolete in Karmic, but the upstart
> system which is supposed to replace them only works with "start", and not
> for any other command:

> ==> service networking stop
> stop: Unknown instance:

> ==> stop networking
> stop: Unknown instance:

> ==> /etc/init.d/networking stop
> ** Deconfiguring network interfaces...
> ** Deconfiguring network interfaces...
> * *...done.

> ==> service networking start
> networking stop/waiting

> So, if /etc/init.d/networking is no more to be used, what am I supposed to
> do when I need to restart the network?

Normally:
If you have Network Manager running, networking is of no use to you
because it just runs "ifup -a" (for the scripts in /etc/init and
/etc/init.d) or "ifdown -a" (for the script in /init.d) and since, by
default, /e/n/i only has an entry for lo, ifup|ifdown has no effect.
You have to use network-manager.

In your case:
You must have an entry for your nic in /e/n/i so
"/etc/init.d/networking stop" ifdowns it. "/etc/init/networking.conf"
only has a start stanza so "stop networking" should not to work.

Why the missing stop stanza? No idea but it must be by design because
the start stanza in "/etc/init.d/networking" calls
"/etc/init/networking.conf" but the stop stanza in
"/etc/init.d/networking" calls ifdown.

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Pierre Frenkiel 11-25-2009 12:37 PM

Karmic: stop: Unknown instance
 
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009, Tom H wrote:

> Normally:
> If you have Network Manager running, networking is of no use to you
I had so often problems with Networkmanager (like removing my resolv.conf)
that I removed the package...
Anyway, I need networking, as I have to restart the network in some scripts.

> Why the missing stop stanza? No idea but it must be by design because
> the start stanza in "/etc/init.d/networking" calls
> "/etc/init/networking.conf" but the stop stanza in
> "/etc/init.d/networking" calls ifdown.

I actually noticed that, but it's rather inconsistent, and that means
that /etc/init.d scripts are not really obsolete, as it is claimed
elsewhere.

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"Joep L. Blom" 11-25-2009 01:13 PM

Karmic: stop: Unknown instance
 
Pierre Frenkiel wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Nov 2009, Tom H wrote:
>
>> Normally:
>> If you have Network Manager running, networking is of no use to you
> I had so often problems with Networkmanager (like removing my resolv.conf)
> that I removed the package...
> Anyway, I need networking, as I have to restart the network in some scripts.
>
>> Why the missing stop stanza? No idea but it must be by design because
>> the start stanza in "/etc/init.d/networking" calls
>> "/etc/init/networking.conf" but the stop stanza in
>> "/etc/init.d/networking" calls ifdown.
>
> I actually noticed that, but it's rather inconsistent, and that means
> that /etc/init.d scripts are not really obsolete, as it is claimed
> elsewhere.
>
I can only advice to get rid of networkmanager and install wicd. Much
less problems.
Joep


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Tom H 11-25-2009 01:46 PM

Karmic: stop: Unknown instance
 
> I can only advice to get rid of networkmanager and install wicd.
> Much less problems.

Not only is NM not the problem but I find this irrational hate that
many for what must be the most widely used "network manager" (generic
use of the term, not NM itself) bizarre.

I do not use NM so I am not saying this out of religious fervour.

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Tom H 11-25-2009 01:57 PM

Karmic: stop: Unknown instance
 
>> Normally:
>> If you have Network Manager running, networking is of no use to you

> * I had so often problems with Networkmanager (like removing my resolv.conf)
> * that I removed the package...

It removes resolv.conf because you are supposed to enter name servers
in NM's GUI screens and, anyway, if you are using DHCP and not using
NM, your resolv.conf will be overwritten by dhclient (unless you edit
dhcpd.conf).

My one big criticism of NM is that it stores its config in some
"secret" files and directories. The devs may have had their reasons to
choose to do so but I would have preferred for eth0, wlan0, etc to be
configured by NM in /e/n/i, or that editing /e/n/i or /etc/resolv.conf
be reflected in the NM GUI.


> Anyway, I need networking, as I have to restart the network in some scripts.

I do the same thing.


>> Why the missing stop stanza? No idea but it must be by design because
>> the start stanza in "/etc/init.d/networking" calls
>> "/etc/init/networking.conf" but the stop stanza in
>> "/etc/init.d/networking" calls ifdown.

> * I actually noticed that, but it's rather inconsistent, and that means
> * that /etc/init.d scripts are not really obsolete, as it is claimed
> * elsewhere.

Very inconsistent.

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Pierre Frenkiel 11-25-2009 03:29 PM

Karmic: stop: Unknown instance
 
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009, Tom H wrote:

> Not only is NM not the problem but I find this irrational hate that
> many for what must be the most widely used "network manager" (generic
> use of the term, not NM itself) bizarre.

2 remarks

1/ when speaking of "networkmanager", most people, if not not all,
have actually in mind "NetworkManager", as this is what comes
with Ubuntu intalls. If you know a better one, tell us.

2/ why do you call "irrational" what is in fact the result of experience:
For myself (but it seems that I'm not the only one), it happened
several time that I experienced network problems (generally network
not working at all), and that these problems disappeared as soon
as I removed NM.
I feel that NM is just one example of the present tendency to
make Linux behaving more and more like Windows, hiding all system
operation, so that's it's more and more difficult to convince the
system to do what you want, and not what it has decided to do.
An other example is the replacement of init.d scripts by upstart
With the former, it was very easy to modify a script (what was needed
some time ago, for example, to enable usb for virtualbox guests)
I have no idea how I would do that now, and it's not the initctl
man which can give the answer!

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Pierre Frenkiel 11-25-2009 03:42 PM

Karmic: stop: Unknown instance
 
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009, Tom H wrote:

> It removes resolv.conf because you are supposed to enter name servers
> in NM's GUI screens and, anyway, if you are using DHCP and not using
> NM, your resolv.conf will be overwritten by dhclient

As I need fixed adresses, I don't use dhcp, but the removal of
resolv.conf occured, after 2 days of normal working, when I plugged
in my pda, as the system decided, without asking anything, to lauch
then dhcp, to the NM's request I suppose. In fact, it was not really
removed, but replaced by an empty one! How clever...
>
> My one big criticism of NM is that it stores its config in some
> "secret" files and directories. The devs may have had their reasons to
> choose to do so but I would have preferred for eth0, wlan0, etc to be
> configured by NM in /e/n/i, or that editing /e/n/i or /etc/resolv.conf
> be reflected in the NM GUI.
Right, but that's enough to get rid of it.
It's exactly what I said in my previous post, when I spoke of the tendency
to hide all system operations.

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Tom H 11-28-2009 03:59 PM

Karmic: stop: Unknown instance
 
>> Not only is NM not the problem but I find this irrational hate that
>> many for what must be the most widely used "network manager" (generic
>> use of the term, not NM itself) bizarre.


> * 1/ when speaking of "networkmanager", most people, if not not all,
> * * *have actually in mind "NetworkManager", as this is what comes
> * * *with Ubuntu intalls. If you know a better one, tell us.

That is why I said "generic use". wicd is a network manager.


> * 2/ why do you call "irrational" what is in fact the result of experience:
> * * *For myself (but it seems that I'm not the only one), it happened
> * * *several time that I experienced network problems (generally network
> * * *not working at all), and that these problems disappeared as soon
> * * *as I removed NM.
> * * *I feel that NM is just one example of the present tendency to
> * * *make Linux behaving more and more like Windows, hiding all system
> * * *operation, so that's it's more and more difficult to convince the
> * * *system to do what you want, and not what it has decided to do.
> * * *An other example is the replacement of init.d scripts by upstart
> * * *With the former, it was very easy to modify a script (what was needed
> * * *some time ago, for example, to enable usb for virtualbox guests)
> * * *I have no idea how I would do that now, and it's not the initctl
> * * *man which can give the answer!

When I used "irrational", I was thinking more globally about many of
the anti-NM messages on this list and on other lists; I should have
probably used Pavlovian. Many people's first reaction to many network
problems is "uninstall NM" wether is has anything to do with the
problem or not.

As with many things, people who have problems always make more noise.
My point was that NM is the most widely used "network config and
access" app so we ought to have far more complaints on this list, on
the Debian list, on the Fedora list... I have clean-installed KK for 9
friends (default installs with NM) and none of them have complained.
NM may be worse than other default apps and have more complainants but
it is not as bad as it critics make it out to be.

I don't think that NM makes Linux more Windows-like it is Gnome in
general (KDE may be the same but I do not use it). Witness what you
see when you run gconf-editor. The app looks like a mix between
Windows' registry editor and OS X's property list editor. You can only
run it as yourself or as root (with gksu or gksudo). If you want to
change the login screen of KK, you have to use gconf-tool-2 at the cli
and know exactly which xml element you need to change. This last
"quality" reminds me of when we used to exchange obscure registry
editing tips in my WIndows admin days...

For upstart, KK clean install edit scripts in /etc/init or /etc/init.d
and for an upgrade from Jaunty add /etc/event.d to those two
directories. Within upstart jobs, scripts need to be prefixed and
suffixed by "script" and "end script" respectively.

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