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Old 11-05-2009, 07:33 PM
thomas
 
Default 9.10 is a black eye for Ubuntu - suggestion for the future

A further thought on the disastrous Ubuntu 9.10.

All of the developers and people responsible for releasing Ubuntu
should watch a series of old commercials about wine, which featured
orson welles. The most famous part of these was the tag line of
"No Wine before it's time".

Each developer should write a version which states the following:
"No Software before it's time" in bold letter and paste it on the top
of their monitors and look at it before they released anything beyond
beta or development versions.

Thomas

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Old 11-05-2009, 08:46 PM
dean
 
Default 9.10 is a black eye for Ubuntu - suggestion for the future

thomas wrote:
> A further thought on the disastrous Ubuntu 9.10.
>
> All of the developers and people responsible for releasing Ubuntu
> should watch a series of old commercials about wine, which featured
> orson welles. The most famous part of these was the tag line of
> "No Wine before it's time".
>
> Each developer should write a version which states the following:
> "No Software before it's time" in bold letter and paste it on the top
> of their monitors and look at it before they released anything beyond
> beta or development versions.
>
> Thomas
>
>
This cycle happens with most new releases on most operating systems
especially this one since of how popular it is. Overall I've had no
problems with Karmic, the only issue I had was finding an appropriate
PPA for VDPAU-Mplayer. But thats really nothing to do with the OS at
all. Can't wait for Lucid Lynx

Dean

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Old 11-06-2009, 08:44 AM
Avi Greenbury
 
Default 9.10 is a black eye for Ubuntu - suggestion for the future

thomas <valhalla2100@comcast.net> wrote:
> All of the developers and people responsible for releasing Ubuntu
> should watch a series of old commercials about wine, which featured
> orson welles. The most famous part of these was the tag line of
> "No Wine before it's time".
>
> Each developer should write a version which states the following:
> "No Software before it's time" in bold letter and paste it on the top
> of their monitors and look at it before they released anything beyond
> beta or development versions.

This is exactly the approach that Debian is derided (and praised in
equal measure) for, and ISTR a change from that was one of the founding
tenets of Ubuntu. IIRC, there was actually some reasonable discussion
on Slashdot (well, reasonable for /.) when Debian announced a switch to
timetabled releases.

Having ready-based releases is great for stability but atrocious for
getting anything bigger than an individual to buy into. Businesses need
to know the lifetime of a piece of software they intend to deploy in
order to compare with the competition and timetable a tender for the
replacement.

Timetabled releases are _hard_ but they're also quite necessary for
anything interested in commercial applications.

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Old 11-06-2009, 11:39 AM
"Karl F. Larsen"
 
Default 9.10 is a black eye for Ubuntu - suggestion for the future

Avi Greenbury wrote:
> thomas <valhalla2100@comcast.net> wrote:
>> All of the developers and people responsible for releasing Ubuntu
>> should watch a series of old commercials about wine, which featured
>> orson welles. The most famous part of these was the tag line of
>> "No Wine before it's time".
>>
>> Each developer should write a version which states the following:
>> "No Software before it's time" in bold letter and paste it on the top
>> of their monitors and look at it before they released anything beyond
>> beta or development versions.
>
> This is exactly the approach that Debian is derided (and praised in
> equal measure) for, and ISTR a change from that was one of the founding
> tenets of Ubuntu. IIRC, there was actually some reasonable discussion
> on Slashdot (well, reasonable for /.) when Debian announced a switch to
> timetabled releases.
>
> Having ready-based releases is great for stability but atrocious for
> getting anything bigger than an individual to buy into. Businesses need
> to know the lifetime of a piece of software they intend to deploy in
> order to compare with the competition and timetable a tender for the
> replacement.
>
> Timetabled releases are _hard_ but they're also quite necessary for
> anything interested in commercial applications.
>
> --
> Avi Greenbury
> http://aviswebsite.co.uk
> http://aviswebsite.co.uk/asking-questions
>

The business people tend to stay with a particular operating
system a long time. There are large companies still using
Windows 98.

Now the Linux business software is made by Red Hat which
trades on the big board. This IS the business source.

What Ubuntu should do is provide an operating system for the
world. It appears that Ubuntu is used more outside the USA
than within. It is installed by the user with all the problems
that causes.

I hope version 9.04 will be worked on and get better. It
seems to be the best so far for the single user.


73 Karl


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Old 11-06-2009, 11:52 AM
Avi Greenbury
 
Default 9.10 is a black eye for Ubuntu - suggestion for the future

"Karl F. Larsen" <klarsen1@gmail.com> wrote:

> The business people tend to stay with a particular operating
> system a long time. There are large companies still using
> Windows 98.

Not many.

> Now the Linux business software is made by Red Hat which
> trades on the big board. This IS the business source.

Red Hat is a big commercial Linux vendor, and they sell to business. As
do Novell with SuSE.
They are two of the big three commercial linux vendors, the third being
Canonical.

> What Ubuntu should do is provide an operating system for the
> world. It appears that Ubuntu is used more outside the USA
> than within. It is installed by the user with all the problems
> that causes.

I don't follow.

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Old 11-06-2009, 11:59 AM
Steve Reilly
 
Default 9.10 is a black eye for Ubuntu - suggestion for the future

Karl F. Larsen wrote:

>
> The business people tend to stay with a particular operating
> system a long time. There are large companies still using
> Windows 98.

agreed. and earlier! our stores ran windows 95 desktops up til the
beginning of last year!!





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Old 11-06-2009, 12:07 PM
"Karl F. Larsen"
 
Default 9.10 is a black eye for Ubuntu - suggestion for the future

Avi Greenbury wrote:
> "Karl F. Larsen" <klarsen1@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The business people tend to stay with a particular operating
>> system a long time. There are large companies still using
>> Windows 98.
>
> Not many.
>
>> Now the Linux business software is made by Red Hat which
>> trades on the big board. This IS the business source.
>
> Red Hat is a big commercial Linux vendor, and they sell to business. As
> do Novell with SuSE.
> They are two of the big three commercial linux vendors, the third being
> Canonical.
>
>> What Ubuntu should do is provide an operating system for the
>> world. It appears that Ubuntu is used more outside the USA
>> than within. It is installed by the user with all the problems
>> that causes.
>
> I don't follow.

What is it you do not follow? Windows is smart, they get the
computer makers to buy Windows and install it. You buy the
computer your windows works.

Ubuntu you d/l from a web site and you try to get it loaded
on your present 5 year old computer which came with Windows XP
installed and working. It might work, it might not. If not you
might hear about it on this list.

Can you follow this?

73 Karl



>
> --
> Avi Greenbury
> http://aviswebsite.co.uk
> http://aviswebsite.co.uk/asking-questions
>


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Linux User
#450462 http://counter.li.org.
Key ID = 3951B48D


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Old 11-06-2009, 12:18 PM
Avi Greenbury
 
Default 9.10 is a black eye for Ubuntu - suggestion for the future

On Fri, 06 Nov 2009 06:07:09 -0700
"Karl F. Larsen" <klarsen1@gmail.com> wrote:

> Avi Greenbury wrote:
> > "Karl F. Larsen" <klarsen1@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> What Ubuntu should do is provide an operating system for
> >> the world. It appears that Ubuntu is used more outside the USA
> >> than within. It is installed by the user with all the problems
> >> that causes.
> >
> > I don't follow.
>
> What is it you do not follow?

"What ubuntu should do is provide an operating system for the world. It
appears that Ubuntu is used more outside the USA than within.

I don't quite understand what you mean by the first sentence, or why
the second particularly needs saying - more people are outside the US
than in, it follows that most computers are, too, and that most
installs of things on computers are, too.

> Windows is smart, they get the
> computer makers to buy Windows and install it. You buy the
> computer your windows works.
>
> Ubuntu you d/l from a web site and you try to get it loaded
> on your present 5 year old computer which came with Windows XP
> installed and working. It might work, it might not. If not you
> might hear about it on this list.

So what you mean is Canonical should be trying to get Ubuntu shipping
on prebuilt machines?

They had a reasonable go at this with Dell, but it's quite prone to
failure given the amount of money MS are willing to spend to stop
system builders doing this.

Hence appealing to businesses - they do install their own OSs, and they
don't always buy Windows through the MS tax, so the licensing cost is a
real one.

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Old 11-06-2009, 01:06 PM
"Karl F. Larsen"
 
Default 9.10 is a black eye for Ubuntu - suggestion for the future

Avi Greenbury wrote:
> On Fri, 06 Nov 2009 06:07:09 -0700
> "Karl F. Larsen" <klarsen1@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Avi Greenbury wrote:
>>> "Karl F. Larsen" <klarsen1@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> What Ubuntu should do is provide an operating system for
>>>> the world. It appears that Ubuntu is used more outside the USA
>>>> than within. It is installed by the user with all the problems
>>>> that causes.
>>> I don't follow.
>> What is it you do not follow?
>
> "What ubuntu should do is provide an operating system for the world. It
> appears that Ubuntu is used more outside the USA than within.
>
> I don't quite understand what you mean by the first sentence, or why
> the second particularly needs saying - more people are outside the US
> than in, it follows that most computers are, too, and that most
> installs of things on computers are, too.
>
>> Windows is smart, they get the
>> computer makers to buy Windows and install it. You buy the
>> computer your windows works.
>>
>> Ubuntu you d/l from a web site and you try to get it loaded
>> on your present 5 year old computer which came with Windows XP
>> installed and working. It might work, it might not. If not you
>> might hear about it on this list.
>
> So what you mean is Canonical should be trying to get Ubuntu shipping
> on prebuilt machines?
>
> They had a reasonable go at this with Dell, but it's quite prone to
> failure given the amount of money MS are willing to spend to stop
> system builders doing this.
>
> Hence appealing to businesses - they do install their own OSs, and they
> don't always buy Windows through the MS tax, so the licensing cost is a
> real one.
>
> --
> Avi Greenbury
> http://aviswebsite.co.uk
> http://aviswebsite.co.uk/asking-questions
>

Red Hat explains this to the companies.


Karl


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Key ID = 3951B48D


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Old 11-06-2009, 01:14 PM
Avi Greenbury
 
Default 9.10 is a black eye for Ubuntu - suggestion for the future

On Fri, 06 Nov 2009 07:06:45 -0700
"Karl F. Larsen" <klarsen1@gmail.com> wrote:
> Red Hat explains this to the companies.

If you're going to give answers like that, you've *really* got to start
trimming your quotes[0].

Red Hat explains what to the companies? That MS pays system builders to
ship Windows? I hardly think that needs explaining to them, it's common
knowledge.


[0] I'd obviously rather everyone always trimmed all their quotes, but
that's just personal preference and a flamewar we've already had more
than our fair crack at.

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