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Old 03-06-2009, 05:12 AM
Craig Huffstetler
 
Default Mailing List FAQ - RFC

<cut>

I think a lot of what you are aiming for has great intent. However, the content may be duplicative of what already exists in certain forms. I think content should exist:

1. On the Ubuntu Wiki.

2. If it does not exist now in any form then create it on the Ubuntu Wiki in the category where it should exist.

I think this will be better than re-hashing what is already on the Ubuntu Wiki. It will also help further what others have already started.


Sincerely,

Craig Huffstetler

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Old 03-06-2009, 05:12 AM
Patton Echols
 
Default Mailing List FAQ - RFC

On 03/05/2009 08:26 PM, Charlie Kravetz wrote:
> On Thu, 05 Mar 2009 18:52:28 -0800
> Steve Grace <sgrace@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>
>> On Thu, 2009-03-05 at 21:32 -0500, Brian McKee wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I've been thinking lately that what this list needs is a good
>>> wiki :-)
>>>
>>> I've put together a 'mock up' at http://bmckee.ca/mailinglistfaqs
>>>
>>> Don't run right over there and start putting info in just yet.
>>> First off, please answer in this thread the following questions.
>>>
>>> 1 - am I nuts?
>>>
>> No.
>>
>>
>>> 2 - regardless of 1, is this a sensible idea?
>>>
>> Yes, and you've made a good start.
>>
>> However, I noticed what I believe to be an error on the Multimedia
>> page. I believe Canonical Ltd. is headquartered in the UK, not the
>> United States.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> And I thought Mark Shuttleworth's offices are on the Isle of Mann
>
>
He could telecommute if he knew any competent computer people! :-D

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Old 03-06-2009, 08:57 AM
Oliver Grawert
 
Default Mailing List FAQ - RFC

hi,
Am Donnerstag, den 05.03.2009, 21:32 -0500 schrieb Brian McKee:
> Hi All
>
> I've been thinking lately that what this list needs is a good wiki :-)
>
> There are a number of questions that come up over and over again, and
> I think it would be helpful if we had our own 'list approved' set of
> answers easily on hand.
several people have thought that before over the 5 years canonical
exists

on a regular base the different faqs and wikipages were reviewed and
http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/mailinglists/etiquette was
assembled from that, if you write a FAQ make sure to not duplicate
things on there and get it included as a link on that page if its
done

ciao
oli
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Old 03-06-2009, 11:47 AM
Derek Broughton
 
Default Mailing List FAQ - RFC

Brian McKee wrote:

> I've been thinking lately that what this list needs is a good wiki :-)

Ack...
>
> 1 - am I nuts?

No. I can't say I particularly like the idea. I never get to the Ubuntu
Forums, so I can't expect I'll get to this wiki. But some people like
them, and some people will use it.
>
> 2 - regardless of 1, is this a sensible idea?

Oh, I see. Yes, you're nuts but sure it's a sensible idea :-)
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Old 03-06-2009, 12:31 PM
steve
 
Default Mailing List FAQ - RFC

Derek Broughton wrote:
> Brian McKee wrote:
>
>> I've been thinking lately that what this list needs is a good wiki :-)
>
> Ack...
>> 1 - am I nuts?
>
> No. I can't say I particularly

like the idea. I never get to the Ubuntu
> Forums, so I can't expect I'll get to this wiki. But some people like
> them, and some people will use it.
>> 2 - regardless of 1, is this a sensible idea?
>
> Oh, I see. Yes, you're nuts but sure it's a sensible idea :-)

yes, agreed here as well. great idea for people who will use a wiki. I
myself dont like them, or forums, the list is for me.






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~ Netiquette ~
http://www.writerswrite.com/journal/dec99/pirillo1.htm





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Old 03-06-2009, 01:48 PM
Brian McKee
 
Default Mailing List FAQ - RFC

Thanks for the feedback all.

When everyone mentions the Ubuntu wiki I'm assuming you mean
http://help.ubuntu.com/community ?

That does make sense as a landing spot - and means nobody has to
maintain it either. I'll start it there as MailingListFAQs I guess.

To those of you that don't quite get my rationale - the point here is
one stop shopping for the questions we see often.

I think right now many of us have a list of bookmarks or vague
memories of where to go so that when somebody asks me why we bottom
post or how to play MP3s we can copy and paste them in one more time.
This just makes that list a community maintained effort rather than a
bunch of private ones.

It should be an index to the spot where the answers are with at most a
line or two of explanation. Obviously the information is already out
there somewhere, but people aren't finding it or they wouldn't be
asking here. It's a polite way of getting them on the road to self
enlightenment by introducing them to the wide range of info already
out there for them.

I think the wordiness of my wiki was misleading. Let me figure out
how to start something at http://help.ubuntu.com/community and I'll
post back when I've got a start on it for additional comments.

In the meantime, if you can come up with your own thoughts on what
questions we see here all the time, please feel free to add them to
this thread.


Brian

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Old 03-06-2009, 01:51 PM
Derek Broughton
 
Default Mailing List FAQ - RFC

Patton Echols wrote:

> On 03/05/2009 08:26 PM, Charlie Kravetz wrote:

>> And I thought Mark Shuttleworth's offices are on the Isle of Mann

That's "Man". Canonical is _registered_ in the Isle of Man, no doubt for
tax purposes, but the offices are in London (on the Isle of _Dogs_ I
believe).
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Old 03-06-2009, 02:55 PM
Florian Diesch
 
Default Mailing List FAQ - RFC

Charlie Kravetz <cjk@teamcharliesangels.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 05 Mar 2009 18:52:28 -0800
> Steve Grace <sgrace@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 2009-03-05 at 21:32 -0500, Brian McKee wrote:
>>
>> > I've been thinking lately that what this list needs is a good
>> > wiki :-)
>>
>> > I've put together a 'mock up' at http://bmckee.ca/mailinglistfaqs
>> >
>> > Don't run right over there and start putting info in just yet.
>> > First off, please answer in this thread the following questions.
>> >
>> > 1 - am I nuts?
>>
>> No.
>>
>> > 2 - regardless of 1, is this a sensible idea?
>>
>> Yes, and you've made a good start.
>>
>> However, I noticed what I believe to be an error on the Multimedia
>> page. I believe Canonical Ltd. is headquartered in the UK, not the
>> United States.
>
> And I thought Mark Shuttleworth's offices are on the Isle of Mann

According to whois it's
Canonical, Ltd.
One Circular Road
Douglas Isle of Man IM1 1AF
GB



Florian
--
<http://www.florian-diesch.de/>

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Old 03-06-2009, 03:34 PM
Thorny
 
Default Mailing List FAQ - RFC

On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 09:48:39 -0500, Brian McKee wrote:

>[...]
> It should be an index to the spot where the answers are with at most a
> line or two of explanation. Obviously the information is already out
> there somewhere, but people aren't finding it or they wouldn't be asking
> here. It's a polite way of getting them on the road to self
> enlightenment by introducing them to the wide range of info already out
> there for them.
>
>
Just to add to the discussion, not to argue against your idea and
intentions.

One of the old time solutions was teaching people to use a search engine
or read the manual before posting questions. However, many will still want
to ask their question personally without having to do any reading or
searching or learning first. I think that is part of the reason for a site
like http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Of course, many experienced users translated that "teaching to search"
kind of help into "google it, you moron" or "read the man page, idiot" and
things weren't as community oriented or respectful as they often are now.
Actually, that advice was good, if somewhat abrasive and often led to
bruised egos.

Having, at most, a line or two of explanation is what may turn out to be
difficult to implement for any but simple questions. In addition, I'm not
sure that mailing list FAQs would be substantially different from the FAQs
already listed at the Ubuntu FAQ Guide. [Well, maybe the top or bottom
posting question, but I'm not sure how to get a simple answer to that. ]

I'm not criticizing your intent, I know you make helpful posts and it's
obvious that having links like you describe would have a use. I'm just not
sure it would work as well as you expect. It doesn't seem to in other
places where I have been which do have FAQs, the repeat questions still
occur and many posters don't seem to learn to use the FAQs.




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Old 03-06-2009, 03:54 PM
Brian McKee
 
Default Mailing List FAQ - RFC

On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 11:34 AM, Thorny <thorntreehome@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 09:48:39 -0500, Brian McKee wrote:
>
>>[...]
>> It should be an index to the spot where the answers are with at most a
>> line or two of explanation. *Obviously the information is already out
>> there somewhere, but people aren't finding it or they wouldn't be asking
>> here. *It's a polite way of getting them on the road to self
>> enlightenment by introducing them to the wide range of info already out
>> there for them.

> One of the old time solutions was teaching people to use a search engine
> or read the manual before posting questions. However, many will still want
> to ask their question personally without having to do any reading or
> searching or learning first. I think that is part of the reason for a site
> like http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

And that's a perfect link to have in our FAQ :-)

>
> Of course, many experienced users translated that "teaching to search"
> kind of help into "google it, you moron" or "read the man page, idiot" and
> things weren't as community oriented or respectful as they often are now.
> Actually, that advice was good, if somewhat abrasive and often led to
> bruised egos.

Yep. I'm teaching my 4 your old right now that the way you ask for
something is as important as what you are asking for. Some people
won't ever get that...

> Having, at most, a line or two of explanation is what may turn out to be
> difficult to implement for any but simple questions.

Yeah, maybe that 's a pipe dream - I'll know better once I start doing
some of them. Simple is the key though I think - just answer the
question and leave the justification for the links.

> In addition, I'm not
> sure that mailing list FAQs would be substantially different from the FAQs
> already listed at the Ubuntu FAQ Guide. [Well, maybe the top or bottom
> posting question, but I'm not sure how to get a simple answer to that. ]

Well, for starters I'm thinking it'll be a heck of a lot shorter. And
some of the questions I see here aren't there - or at least aren't
obvious.

> I'm not criticizing your intent, I know you make helpful posts and it's
> obvious that having links like you describe would have a use. I'm just not
> sure it would work as well as you expect. It doesn't seem to in other
> places where I have been which do have FAQs, the repeat questions still
> occur and many posters don't seem to learn to use the FAQs.

You're right, there will be those that can't be taught, but if it gets
even a few down the road a little farther, I think it'll be worth it.

Thanks for your comments!

Brian

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