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Old 02-21-2009, 03:45 AM
Bret Busby
 
Default 8.10 Updates damaging applications

Hello.

In the last few days, hundreds of updates to version 8.10 have appeared,
including many KDE applications updates.

After having faithfully intalled the updates, KFTPGrabber now hangs and
crashes.

I can successfully make connection, using Quick Connect, but when I try
to upload or download files, it shows "Fetching directory listing", then
hangs, showing massive CPU use and massive data transfer rates, and
keeps showing that for a while, then simply crashes.

Using the command line FTP utility, which I had to use, worked without
any problems. It is just not as convenient, and makes the GUI apear more
trouble than it is worth.

I don't know how much damage the updates have done to other
applications, but is is a bit concerning, when updates damage the
applications like this.

It kind of makes the latest updates, make the latest relase of Ubuntu,
look like the equivalent of Debian experimental.

--
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..............

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
"The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
A Trilogy In Four Parts",
written by Douglas Adams,
published by Pan Books, 1992

.................................................. ..

--
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Old 02-21-2009, 06:35 AM
Mario Vukelic
 
Default 8.10 Updates damaging applications

On Sat, 2009-02-21 at 13:45 +0900, Bret Busby wrote:
> In the last few days, hundreds of updates to version 8.10 have
> appeared, including many KDE applications updates.

Not as far as I can see:
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/intrepid-changes/2009-February/thread.html

(though I use Jaunty and cannot vouch for the correctness of the
intrepid-changes archive.

Are you sure that you did not play with your software sources and messed
them up in some way?


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Old 02-21-2009, 06:42 AM
Mario Vukelic
 
Default 8.10 Updates damaging applications

On Sat, 2009-02-21 at 13:45 +0900, Bret Busby wrote:
> In the last few days, hundreds of updates to version 8.10 have
> appeared, including many KDE applications updates.

Ah, I think you might mean these:


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Old 02-21-2009, 06:50 AM
Mario Vukelic
 
Default 8.10 Updates damaging applications

(Excuse me for sending the previous incomplete post, my fingers slipped
while editing]

On Sat, 2009-02-21 at 13:45 +0900, Bret Busby wrote:
> In the last few days, hundreds of updates to version 8.10 have
> appeared, including many KDE applications updates.

Ah, I think you might mean these:
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/intrepid-changes/2009-January/thread.html

1. January is not "the last few days"
2. It's a lot, but not "hundreds"
3. Most importantly, as far as I can tell these updates were only done
in intrepid-proposed. "proposed" is specifically for testing updates
before they are applied to everyone. Enabling "proposed" is entirely
optional. The Software Sources configuration panel could be more
informative, but "pre-released updates" should make one think and check
the documentation. From menu System -> Help and Support -> search for
"proposed" (this is from Jaunty, but I don't think the text has changed
since intrepid):

Proposed updates:
Updates which are currently being tested before being released to
everyone are provided through this update source. If you would like to
help test new updates (and get fixes for problems more quickly), enable
this source. Be aware that these updates may not yet be well tested; it
is not recommended that you enable this source unless you are prepared
to experience occasional problems.



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Old 02-21-2009, 02:55 PM
Bret Busby
 
Default 8.10 Updates damaging applications

On Sat, 21 Feb 2009, Mario Vukelic wrote:

> Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 08:50:00 +0100
> From: Mario Vukelic <mario.vukelic@dantian.org>
> Reply-To: "Ubuntu user technical support, not for general discussions"
> <ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com>
> To: "Ubuntu user technical support, not for general discussions"
> <ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com>
> Subject: Re: 8.10 Updates damaging applications
>
> (Excuse me for sending the previous incomplete post, my fingers slipped
> while editing]
>
> On Sat, 2009-02-21 at 13:45 +0900, Bret Busby wrote:
>> In the last few days, hundreds of updates to version 8.10 have
>> appeared, including many KDE applications updates.
>
> Ah, I think you might mean these:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/intrepid-changes/2009-January/thread.html
>
> 1. January is not "the last few days"
> 2. It's a lot, but not "hundreds"
> 3. Most importantly, as far as I can tell these updates were only done
> in intrepid-proposed. "proposed" is specifically for testing updates
> before they are applied to everyone. Enabling "proposed" is entirely
> optional. The Software Sources configuration panel could be more
> informative, but "pre-released updates" should make one think and check
> the documentation. From menu System -> Help and Support -> search for
> "proposed" (this is from Jaunty, but I don't think the text has changed
> since intrepid):
>
> Proposed updates:
> Updates which are currently being tested before being released to
> everyone are provided through this update source. If you would like to
> help test new updates (and get fixes for problems more quickly), enable
> this source. Be aware that these updates may not yet be well tested; it
> is not recommended that you enable this source unless you are prepared
> to experience occasional problems.
>
>
>
> --
>

See below - taken from Synaptic -> history, for February 2009, on that
Ubuntu 8.10 system.

It might not be hundreds, but it sure felt like it, and, one day, I
think it might have been the day of the KDE updates, it was 212MB of
updates.

In the update utility, I get only two types of updates listed;
"Important Security Updates", and, "Recommended updates.

I do not knowing have anything to do with "proposed updates". With for
what I use that particular computer, especially the Ubuntu 8.10
instalation, I would not turn it into the equivalent of Debian
experimental. That computer, and, what I have installed on the Ubuntu
8.10 system, is simply to important to knowingly jeopardise with risky
software.

You will note that on 16 February, a pile of KDE based updates were
installed.

--
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..............

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
"The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
A Trilogy In Four Parts",
written by Douglas Adams,
published by Pan Books, 1992

.................................................. ..

On Sun, 22 Feb 2009, Bret Busby wrote:
>
> Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 00:54:49 +0900
> From: Bret Busby <bret@busby.net>
> To: bret@busby.net
> Subject: Ubuntu updates during February
>
>
> Below are the updates installed during February 2009.
>
> --
> Bret Busby
> Armadale
> West Australia
> ..............
>
> "So once you do know what the question actually is,
> you'll know what the answer means."
> - Deep Thought,
> Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
> "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
> A Trilogy In Four Parts",
> written by Douglas Adams,
> published by Pan Books, 1992
> .................................................. ..
>
> Commit Log for Fri Feb 20 20:21:16 2009
>
>
> Upgraded the following packages:
> cups (1.3.9-2ubuntu6.1) to 1.3.9-2ubuntu7
> cups-bsd (1.3.9-2ubuntu6.1) to 1.3.9-2ubuntu7
> cups-client (1.3.9-2ubuntu6.1) to 1.3.9-2ubuntu7
> cups-common (1.3.9-2ubuntu6.1) to 1.3.9-2ubuntu7
> foomatic-filters (4.0.0~bzr177-0ubuntu1) to 4.0.0-0ubuntu3
> libcups2 (1.3.9-2ubuntu6.1) to 1.3.9-2ubuntu7
> libcupsimage2 (1.3.9-2ubuntu6.1) to 1.3.9-2ubuntu7
> libqt4-assistant (4.4.3-0ubuntu1.1) to 4.4.3-0ubuntu1.2
> libqt4-core (4.4.3-0ubuntu1.1) to 4.4.3-0ubuntu1.2
> libqt4-dbus (4.4.3-0ubuntu1.1) to 4.4.3-0ubuntu1.2
> libqt4-designer (4.4.3-0ubuntu1.1) to 4.4.3-0ubuntu1.2
> libqt4-dev (4.4.3-0ubuntu1.1) to 4.4.3-0ubuntu1.2
> libqt4-help (4.4.3-0ubuntu1.1) to 4.4.3-0ubuntu1.2
> libqt4-network (4.4.3-0ubuntu1.1) to 4.4.3-0ubuntu1.2
> libqt4-opengl (4.4.3-0ubuntu1.1) to 4.4.3-0ubuntu1.2
> libqt4-opengl-dev (4.4.3-0ubuntu1.1) to 4.4.3-0ubuntu1.2
> libqt4-qt3support (4.4.3-0ubuntu1.1) to 4.4.3-0ubuntu1.2
> libqt4-script (4.4.3-0ubuntu1.1) to 4.4.3-0ubuntu1.2
> libqt4-sql (4.4.3-0ubuntu1.1) to 4.4.3-0ubuntu1.2
> libqt4-sql-mysql (4.4.3-0ubuntu1.1) to 4.4.3-0ubuntu1.2
> libqt4-svg (4.4.3-0ubuntu1.1) to 4.4.3-0ubuntu1.2
> libqt4-test (4.4.3-0ubuntu1.1) to 4.4.3-0ubuntu1.2
> libqt4-webkit (4.4.3-0ubuntu1.1) to 4.4.3-0ubuntu1.2
> libqt4-xml (4.4.3-0ubuntu1.1) to 4.4.3-0ubuntu1.2
> libqt4-xmlpatterns (4.4.3-0ubuntu1.1) to 4.4.3-0ubuntu1.2
> libqtcore4 (4.4.3-0ubuntu1.1) to 4.4.3-0ubuntu1.2
> libqtgui4 (4.4.3-0ubuntu1.1) to 4.4.3-0ubuntu1.2
> qt4-qtconfig (4.4.3-0ubuntu1.1) to 4.4.3-0ubuntu1.2
>
> Commit Log for Wed Feb 18 19:38:19 2009
>
>
> Upgraded the following packages:
> fglrx-modaliases (2:8.543-0ubuntu4) to 2:8.543-0ubuntu4.1
> sudo (1.6.9p17-1ubuntu2) to 1.6.9p17-1ubuntu2.1
>
> Commit Log for Tue Feb 17 15:50:30 2009
>
>
> Upgraded the following packages:
> consolekit (0.2.10-1ubuntu9) to 0.2.10-1ubuntu10
> hal-info (20081124-0ubuntu1~intrepid) to 20090128-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> libck-connector0 (0.2.10-1ubuntu9) to 0.2.10-1ubuntu10
> libpam-ck-connector (0.2.10-1ubuntu9) to 0.2.10-1ubuntu10
> libpq-dev (8.3.5-0ubuntu8.10) to 8.3.6-0ubuntu8.10
> libpq5 (8.3.5-0ubuntu8.10) to 8.3.6-0ubuntu8.10
> libxine1 (1.1.15-0ubuntu3.1) to 1.1.15-0ubuntu3.1intrepid1
> libxine1-bin (1.1.15-0ubuntu3.1) to 1.1.15-0ubuntu3.1intrepid1
> libxine1-console (1.1.15-0ubuntu3.1) to 1.1.15-0ubuntu3.1intrepid1
> libxine1-ffmpeg (1.1.15-0ubuntu3.1) to 1.1.15-0ubuntu3.1intrepid1
> libxine1-misc-plugins (1.1.15-0ubuntu3.1) to 1.1.15-0ubuntu3.1intrepid1
> libxine1-plugins (1.1.15-0ubuntu3.1) to 1.1.15-0ubuntu3.1intrepid1
> libxine1-x (1.1.15-0ubuntu3.1) to 1.1.15-0ubuntu3.1intrepid1
> postgresql (8.3.5-0ubuntu8.10) to 8.3.6-0ubuntu8.10
> postgresql-8.3 (8.3.5-0ubuntu8.10) to 8.3.6-0ubuntu8.10
> postgresql-client (8.3.5-0ubuntu8.10) to 8.3.6-0ubuntu8.10
> postgresql-client-8.3 (8.3.5-0ubuntu8.10) to 8.3.6-0ubuntu8.10
> postgresql-contrib (8.3.5-0ubuntu8.10) to 8.3.6-0ubuntu8.10
> postgresql-contrib-8.3 (8.3.5-0ubuntu8.10) to 8.3.6-0ubuntu8.10
> postgresql-doc (8.3.5-0ubuntu8.10) to 8.3.6-0ubuntu8.10
> postgresql-doc-8.3 (8.3.5-0ubuntu8.10) to 8.3.6-0ubuntu8.10
> postgresql-plperl-8.3 (8.3.5-0ubuntu8.10) to 8.3.6-0ubuntu8.10
>
> Commit Log for Mon Feb 16 14:18:45 2009
>
>
> Upgraded the following packages:
> akregator (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid2) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> amor (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> ark (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> bovo (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> dolphin (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> dpkg (1.14.20ubuntu6) to 1.14.20ubuntu6.1
> dpkg-dev (1.14.20ubuntu6) to 1.14.20ubuntu6.1
> gvfs (1.0.2-0ubuntu1) to 1.0.2-0ubuntu2
> gvfs-backends (1.0.2-0ubuntu1) to 1.0.2-0ubuntu2
> gvfs-bin (1.0.2-0ubuntu1) to 1.0.2-0ubuntu2
> gvfs-fuse (1.0.2-0ubuntu1) to 1.0.2-0ubuntu2
> gwenview (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> juk (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kaddressbook (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid2) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> kalarm (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid2) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> kalgebra (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kalzium (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kalzium-data (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kamera (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kanagram (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> katomic (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kbattleship (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kblackbox (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kblocks (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kbounce (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kbreakout (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kbruch (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kcalc (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> kcharselect (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> kcolorchooser (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kcron (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kde-icons-mono (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kde-icons-oxygen (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kde-printer-applet (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> kde-window-manager (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid3
> kdeaccessibility (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kdeadmin (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kdeartwork (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kdeartwork-emoticons (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kdeartwork-misc (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kdeartwork-style (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kdeartwork-theme-icon (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kdeartwork-theme-window (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kdebase-bin (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> kdebase-data (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> kdebase-runtime (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kdebase-runtime-bin-kde4 (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kdebase-runtime-data (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kdebase-runtime-data-common (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kdebase-workspace (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid3
> kdebase-workspace-bin (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid3
> kdebase-workspace-data (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid3
> kdebase-workspace-libs4+5 (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid3
> kdeedu (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kdegames (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kdegames-card-data (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kdegames-mahjongg-data (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kdegraphics (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kdegraphics-strigi-plugins (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kdelibs-bin (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid4) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kdelibs5 (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid4) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kdelibs5-data (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid4) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kdemultimedia (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kdemultimedia-kio-plugins (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kdenetwork (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid2) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kdenetwork-filesharing (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid2) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kdepim-kresources (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid2) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> kdepim-strigi-plugins (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid2) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> kdepim-wizards (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid2) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> kdepimlibs-data (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid2) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kdepimlibs5 (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid2) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kdeplasma-addons (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kdeplasma-addons-data (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kdeplasma-addons-libs4 (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kdessh (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> kdetoys (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kdeutils (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> kdewallpapers (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kdewebdev-kde4 (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kdf (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> kdiamond (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kdm (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid3
> kfilereplace-kde4 (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kfind (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> kfloppy (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> kfourinline (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kgamma (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kgeography (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kgeography-data (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kget (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid2) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kgoldrunner (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kgpg (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> khangman (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> khelpcenter4 (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kig (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kimagemapeditor-kde4 (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kinfocenter (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> kiriki (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kjots (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid2) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> kjumpingcube (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> klettres (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> klettres-data (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> klines (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> klinkstatus-kde4 (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> klipper (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid3
> kmag (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kmahjongg (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kmail (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid2) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> kmines (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kmix (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kmousetool (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kmouth (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kmplot (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> knetwalk (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> knetworkconf (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> knewsticker (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid2) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> knode (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid2) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> knotes (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid2) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> kode (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid2) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> kolf (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kollision (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kolourpaint4 (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> konqueror (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> konqueror-nsplugins (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> konquest (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> konsolekalendar (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid2) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> kontact (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid2) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> kopete (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid2) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> korganizer (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid2) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> kpat (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kpercentage (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kppp (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid2) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> krdc (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid2) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kreversi (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> krfb (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid2) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kruler (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> ksame (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kscd (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kscreensaver (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kscreensaver-xsavers (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kshisen (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> ksirk (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> ksnapshot (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kspaceduel (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> ksquares (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kstars (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kstars-data (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> ksudoku (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> ksysguard (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid3
> ksysguardd (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid3
> ksystemlog (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kteatime (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> ktimer (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> ktimetracker (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid2) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> ktnef (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid2) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> ktouch (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> ktuberling (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kturtle (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> ktux (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kubrick (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kuser (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kwalletmanager (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> kweather (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> kwordquiz (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> libgvfscommon0 (1.0.2-0ubuntu1) to 1.0.2-0ubuntu2
> libkcddb4 (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> libkdecorations4 (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid3
> libkdeedu4 (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> libkdegames4 (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> libkdepim4 (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid2) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> libkholidays4 (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid2) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> libkipi-common (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> libkipi5 (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> libkleo4 (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid2) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> libkonq5 (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> libkonq5-templates (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> libkpgp4 (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid2) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> libksane0 (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> libksieve4 (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid2) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> libkwineffects1 (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid3
> libmaildir4 (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid2) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> libmarble4 (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> libmimelib4 (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid2) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> libokularcore1 (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> libplasma2 (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid3
> lskat (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> marble (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> marble-data (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> okteta (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> okular (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> parley (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> parley-data (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> python-kde4 (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> python-plasma (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid3
> python-plasma-examples (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid3
> rhythmbox (0.11.6svn20081008-0ubuntu4.2) to 0.11.6svn20081008-0ubuntu4.3
> step (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
> superkaramba (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> sweeper (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2
> systemsettings (4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) to 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid3
>
> Commit Log for Fri Feb 13 20:08:09 2009
>
>
> Upgraded the following packages:
> libapache2-mod-php5 (5.2.6-2ubuntu4) to 5.2.6-2ubuntu4.1
> php-pear (5.2.6-2ubuntu4) to 5.2.6-2ubuntu4.1
> php5 (5.2.6-2ubuntu4) to 5.2.6-2ubuntu4.1
> php5-cgi (5.2.6-2ubuntu4) to 5.2.6-2ubuntu4.1
> php5-cli (5.2.6-2ubuntu4) to 5.2.6-2ubuntu4.1
> php5-common (5.2.6-2ubuntu4) to 5.2.6-2ubuntu4.1
> php5-dbg (5.2.6-2ubuntu4) to 5.2.6-2ubuntu4.1
> php5-mysql (5.2.6-2ubuntu4) to 5.2.6-2ubuntu4.1
> php5-odbc (5.2.6-2ubuntu4) to 5.2.6-2ubuntu4.1
> php5-pgsql (5.2.6-2ubuntu4) to 5.2.6-2ubuntu4.1
> php5-sqlite (5.2.6-2ubuntu4) to 5.2.6-2ubuntu4.1
>
> Commit Log for Wed Feb 11 23:37:38 2009
>
>
> Upgraded the following packages:
> firefox (3.0.5+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.8.10.1) to 3.0.6+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.8.10.1
> firefox-3.0 (3.0.5+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.8.10.1) to 3.0.6+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.8.10.1
> firefox-3.0-branding (3.0.5+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.8.10.1) to 3.0.6+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.8.10.1
> firefox-3.0-gnome-support (3.0.5+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.8.10.1) to 3.0.6+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.8.10.1
> firefox-gnome-support (3.0.5+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.8.10.1) to 3.0.6+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.8.10.1
> libc6 (2.8~20080505-0ubuntu8) to 2.8~20080505-0ubuntu9
> libc6-dev (2.8~20080505-0ubuntu8) to 2.8~20080505-0ubuntu9
> libc6-i686 (2.8~20080505-0ubuntu8) to 2.8~20080505-0ubuntu9
> libsqlite3-0 (3.5.9-3) to 3.5.9-3ubuntu1
> sqlite3 (3.5.9-3) to 3.5.9-3ubuntu1
> sqlite3-doc (3.5.9-3) to 3.5.9-3ubuntu1
> xulrunner-1.9 (1.9.0.5+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.8.10.1) to 1.9.0.6+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.8.10.1
> xulrunner-1.9-gnome-support (1.9.0.5+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.8.10.1) to 1.9.0.6+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.8.10.1
>
>
> .................................................. ..
>

.................................................. ..

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Old 02-21-2009, 04:58 PM
Mario Vukelic
 
Default 8.10 Updates damaging applications

On Sun, 2009-02-22 at 00:55 +0900, Bret Busby wrote:
> See below - taken from Synaptic -> history, for February 2009, on that
> Ubuntu 8.10 system.

I'll comment on that further down.

> It might not be hundreds, but it sure felt like it,

I can understand that, but please be aware that the more exact your
information is, the better the help will be that you get. After all, you
are asking for *free* help here (you can purchase a support contract
with Canonical if that is more your cup of beer). Which means that I am
currently donating my own free time to trying to help you. I don't think
that it is really my responsibility to go and clarify your misleading
information myself.

> In the update utility, I get only two types of updates listed;
> "Important Security Updates", and, "Recommended updates.
> I do not knowing have anything to do with "proposed updates".

Hm, my lack of kubuntu knowledge is inconvenient here, it seems weird
not to have -proposed. But indeed it seems that I was wrong, read on
further down.

> With for what I use that particular computer, especially the Ubuntu 8.10
> instalation, I would not turn it into the equivalent of Debian
> experimental. That computer, and, what I have installed on the Ubuntu
> 8.10 system, is simply to important to knowingly jeopardise with risky
> software.

In this case I, personally, would not run 8.10 at all, but would run
8.04 if possible. 8.04 is an LTS (Long-Term Support) release and is
certainly much better tested and more stable.
I would certainly not run a still very new and pretty experimental KDE
version (4.1).

Useless hyperbole ("Debian experimental", "hundreds") will not entice
people to pitch in, though. It was also the reason for my not
exceptionally friendly first reply.

Unless this has changed in recent years, experimental is not even a full
repo that you can run as such. And there is certainly a lot more
breakage in experimental than in Ubuntu 8.10.

So far you have listed exactly one problem, KFTPGrabber hanging and
crashing, and that you "don't know how much damage the updates have done
to other applications". Which means that again you gave incomplete
information while asking for free help, instead of doing your part. You
know, the number of other new issues might just be zero.

You did not even give any info about KFTPGrapper's behavior: when does
it crash, is it reproducible, etc.

I find two bug reports about crashes of this app. Any of these?
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kftpgrabber/+bug/321716
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kftpgrabber/+bug/328002

> You will note that on 16 February, a pile of KDE based updates were
> installed.

Yeah, I got it wrong and need to apologize. On second look it seems that
I was confused by the package list on intrepid-changes: they are listed
for -proposed, but I overlooked the "(Accepted)" that is appended to
most of the entries. When checking some of the packages in your update
list it seems that they are now indeed pushed through intrepid-updates.




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Old 02-22-2009, 03:23 AM
Bret Busby
 
Default 8.10 Updates damaging applications

On Sat, 21 Feb 2009, Mario Vukelic wrote:

>
> On Sun, 2009-02-22 at 00:55 +0900, Bret Busby wrote:
>> See below - taken from Synaptic -> history, for February 2009, on that
>> Ubuntu 8.10 system.
>
> I'll comment on that further down.
>
>> It might not be hundreds, but it sure felt like it,
>
> I can understand that, but please be aware that the more exact your
> information is, the better the help will be that you get. After all, you
> are asking for *free* help here (you can purchase a support contract
> with Canonical if that is more your cup of beer). Which means that I am
> currently donating my own free time to trying to help you. I don't think
> that it is really my responsibility to go and clarify your misleading
> information myself.
>

Is it misleading? Did you do a count of the updates that were listed?
How many were there exactly, if not hundreds?

I note that, in your condemnation, you conspicuously omiited any
comments such as

"You said "hundreds" - there were in fact only 199 updates",

or something similar.

>> In the update utility, I get only two types of updates listed;
>> "Important Security Updates", and, "Recommended updates.
>> I do not knowing have anything to do with "proposed updates".
>
> Hm, my lack of kubuntu knowledge is inconvenient here, it seems weird
> not to have -proposed. But indeed it seems that I was wrong, read on
> further down.
>

I am not using kubuntu - I am using Ubuntu, with the GNOME interface. I
just happen to use KDE applications running on the system, such as
(until recently) KFTPGrabber.

I note that my installation of KFTPGRabber (version kftpgrabber
(0.8.0~beta2-1) - from http://packages.debian.org/etch/kftpgrabber -
the "About KFTPGRabber" dialogue box does not allow copying of text) on
Debian 4.0, continues to work without any problems discovered by me.

>> With for what I use that particular computer, especially the Ubuntu 8.10
>> instalation, I would not turn it into the equivalent of Debian
>> experimental. That computer, and, what I have installed on the Ubuntu
>> 8.10 system, is simply to important to knowingly jeopardise with risky
>> software.
>
> In this case I, personally, would not run 8.10 at all, but would run
> 8.04 if possible. 8.04 is an LTS (Long-Term Support) release and is
> certainly much better tested and more stable.
> I would certainly not run a still very new and pretty experimental KDE
> version (4.1).
>

That is what my wife has now suggested - binning 8.10, and using 8.04,
that she has ben using.

I had installed 8.10, as the latest Ubuntu "stable" version. Apparently,
releasing a Ubuntu version, does not man that it is regarded as stable -
it is apparently more a "testing" version, and unstable.

So, I have to transfer my home directory, and replace the
unstable/testing Ubuntu 8.10, with the stab;e Ubuntu 8.04

> Useless hyperbole ("Debian experimental", "hundreds") will not entice
> people to pitch in, though. It was also the reason for my not
> exceptionally friendly first reply.
>
> Unless this has changed in recent years, experimental is not even a full
> repo that you can run as such. And there is certainly a lot more
> breakage in experimental than in Ubuntu 8.10.
>
> So far you have listed exactly one problem, KFTPGrabber hanging and
> crashing, and that you "don't know how much damage the updates have done
> to other applications". Which means that again you gave incomplete
> information while asking for free help, instead of doing your part. You
> know, the number of other new issues might just be zero.
>
> You did not even give any info about KFTPGrapper's behavior: when does
> it crash, is it reproducible, etc.
>

I had made that clear; what action is taked that consistently leads to
the crash (basically trying to do FTP with the application, as stated
in my previously, relatively explicitly, stated problem description).

> I find two bug reports about crashes of this app. Any of these?
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kftpgrabber/+bug/321716
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kftpgrabber/+bug/328002
>

No - see my problem description. The second one you cited above, states

"kftpgrabber is crashing, especially when there is a lot of actions to
do..."

As my problem descriptions specified, just trying to upload or
download files (I only tried with a single file at a time, that caused the
crashes), caused the crashes, not multiple concurrent attempted actions.


--
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..............

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
"The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
A Trilogy In Four Parts",
written by Douglas Adams,
published by Pan Books, 1992

.................................................. ..

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Old 02-22-2009, 03:58 AM
Mario Vukelic
 
Default 8.10 Updates damaging applications

On Sun, 2009-02-22 at 13:23 +0900, Bret Busby wrote:
> "You said "hundreds" - there were in fact only 199 updates",
>
> or something similar.

Dude, whatever, help yourself


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Old 02-22-2009, 11:05 AM
John L Fjellstad
 
Default 8.10 Updates damaging applications

Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> writes:

> In the last few days, hundreds of updates to version 8.10 have appeared,
> including many KDE applications updates.

It looks like KDE 4.2 just hit the backport servers which account for
all the updates.

If you don't want to upgrade from backport, I would just disable those
repositories (just put a # in beginning of the line in /etc/apt/sources.list)


--
John L. Fjellstad
web: http://www.fjellstad.org/ Quis custodiet ipsos custodes


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Old 02-22-2009, 11:06 AM
Mario Vukelic
 
Default 8.10 Updates damaging applications

On Sun, 2009-02-22 at 13:23 +0900, Bret Busby wrote:
> Is it misleading? Did you do a count of the updates that were listed?
> How many were there exactly, if not hundreds?

Over 200 actually, so you were right in this regard, and what you wrote
about the number of updates was not misleading. Sorry for that, again.
What was misleading for me was intrepid-changes, I dunno why.
http://www.kitterman.org/ScottK/2009/02/kubuntu_8042_released.html

However, I stand by the other stuff I wrote.


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