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Old 02-19-2009, 03:00 AM
Rashkae
 
Default All new docs in the last five days are gone!

Wade Smart wrote:
> 20090218 2103 GMT-5
>
> Crap!!!! My system keeps weirding out on me.
>
> I just rebooted my system after I couldnt get a thumbdrive icon off the
> screen after unmounting it. Now all my documents I have written in the
> past five days are gone. All my html files, all my php files - anything
> I have worked on is missing - EXCEPT my email. It is all here.
>
> I have tried running a search on file names and nothing comes up.
>
> How can this happen?
>
> Wade

One hell of a filesystem bug, or the hard drive was just unable to write
to the file hard drive sectors needed to update the meta data. Linux,
will, unfortunately, keep going for a long time with an unstable hard
drive, and the only indidicator that anything is wrong will be in the
dmesg log.. (although, 5 days is kind of long, even for that.)

I would start with the basic Memtest86 from the Install CD. All bets
are off if you get errors from that. Then use smartctl -a to check the
hard drive self diagnostic error report. What you are most interested
in here is either Reallocated Sectors, or any record whose "Worst"
Number is lower than the "Thresh" number. (Note: while hard drive
manufacturers might consider it 'normal' to acquire a few re-allocated
sectors, this is one of your best early indications of a failing hard
drive. Certainly a drive that increases this count more than once
should be disposed of as soon as possible).

If the Hard drive hasn't already declared itself dead, then you should
use badblocks to scan the surface. Since this computer has already
exhibited such hostile symptoms, I would (after a backup of my data, of
course) boot from a CD and do a non-destructive read write test. This
is slow, but it's as good as doing a Low Level Format of your hard
drive, and has the benefit of preserving all your data if the HD isn't a
failure. This should be followed with another look at smartctl to make
sure the hard drive hasn't re-allocated sectors silently during the
read-write test. (Technically, that's what the HD should do if any of
the sectors are iffy, but I would still consider it a warning sign of
imminent danger.)

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Old 02-19-2009, 05:37 AM
"Cybe R. Wizard"
 
Default All new docs in the last five days are gone!

Wade Smart <wadesmart@gmail.com> said:
> 20090218 2103 GMT-5
>
> Crap!!!! My system keeps weirding out on me.
>
> I just rebooted my system after I couldnt get a thumbdrive icon off
> the screen after unmounting it. Now all my documents I have written
> in the past five days are gone. All my html files, all my php files -
> anything I have worked on is missing - EXCEPT my email. It is all
> here.
>
> I have tried running a search on file names and nothing comes up.
>
> How can this happen?
>
> Wade

where were these files, on the hard drive or the thumbdrive
(geek stick)? If on the stick and you shut down before the stick
completed its write then you probably corrupted files. Good luck
getting them back.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
Nice computers don't go down.
Larry Niven, Steven Barnes
"The Barsoom Project"

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Old 02-19-2009, 01:16 PM
Eberhard Roloff
 
Default All new docs in the last five days are gone!

Wade Smart wrote:
> 20090218 2103 GMT-5
>
> Crap!!!! My system keeps weirding out on me.
>
> I just rebooted my system after I couldnt get a thumbdrive icon off the
> screen after unmounting it. Now all my documents I have written in the
> past five days are gone. All my html files, all my php files - anything
> I have worked on is missing - EXCEPT my email. It is all here.
>
> I have tried running a search on file names and nothing comes up.
>
> How can this happen?
>
> Wade
I do not know.

What I do know from bad experiences:
Your data is a safe and as recent as your last backup.

regards and good luck
Eberhard


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Old 02-19-2009, 11:02 PM
NoOp
 
Default All new docs in the last five days are gone!

On 02/18/2009 08:00 PM, Rashkae wrote:

> If the Hard drive hasn't already declared itself dead, then you should
> use badblocks to scan the surface.

Hmmm... I've never tried badblocks, so I checked 'man badblocks':

Important note: If the output of badblocks is going to be fed to the
e2fsck or mke2fs programs, it is important that the block size is prop‐
erly specified, since the block numbers which are generated are very
dependent on the block size in use by the filesystem. For this reason,
it is strongly recommended that users not run badblocks directly, but
rather use the -c option of the e2fsck and mke2fs programs.

seems to have more 'Warnings':
WARNING
Never use the -w option on a device containing an existing file system.
This option erases data! If you want to do write-mode testing on an
existing file system, use the -n option instead. It is slower, but it
will preserve your data.

Is there a 'Dummys' guide to using badblocks so as to not hose a drive
in the process?


Since this computer has already
> exhibited such hostile symptoms, I would (after a backup of my data, of
> course) boot from a CD and do a non-destructive read write test. This
> is slow, but it's as good as doing a Low Level Format of your hard
> drive, and has the benefit of preserving all your data if the HD isn't a
> failure. This should be followed with another look at smartctl to make
> sure the hard drive hasn't re-allocated sectors silently during the
> read-write test. (Technically, that's what the HD should do if any of
> the sectors are iffy, but I would still consider it a warning sign of
> imminent danger.)
>



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Old 02-19-2009, 11:32 PM
Wade Smart
 
Default All new docs in the last five days are gone!

Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> Wade Smart <wadesmart@gmail.com> said:
>> 20090218 2103 GMT-5
>>
>> Crap!!!! My system keeps weirding out on me.
>>
>> I just rebooted my system after I couldnt get a thumbdrive icon off
>> the screen after unmounting it. Now all my documents I have written
>> in the past five days are gone. All my html files, all my php files -
>> anything I have worked on is missing - EXCEPT my email. It is all
>> here.
>>
>> I have tried running a search on file names and nothing comes up.
>>
>> How can this happen?
>>
>> Wade
>
> where were these files, on the hard drive or the thumbdrive
> (geek stick)? If on the stick and you shut down before the stick
> completed its write then you probably corrupted files. Good luck
> getting them back.
>
> Cybe R. Wizard

20090219 1823 GMT-5

I had posted here recently about a grub problem. After getting that done
-- like hour later - was the first day this happened. I started a scan
of all three of my hard drives this morning before leaving on a trip.
When I got home it had found all my files but on a hard drive that I
think was the one that was messed up in grub.

I moved all the files over to where they should be but, Im not sure why
there were posted there in the first place.

See, I have two drives: at some point in time when I reinstalled ubuntu
or when I reinstalled the drives after working on my computer I switched
the location of the drives. I guess that was enough to cause problems
over time.

Now though the drives are in the correct order physically again, my
files apparently went to the other location.

I dont understand all of this but for the next few days what Im going to
do is save it in my chosen location and then check it immediately.

Wade


--
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Linux since June 2005

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Old 02-19-2009, 11:38 PM
Rashkae
 
Default All new docs in the last five days are gone!

Wade Smart wrote:

>
> 20090219 1823 GMT-5
>
> I had posted here recently about a grub problem. After getting that done
> -- like hour later - was the first day this happened. I started a scan
> of all three of my hard drives this morning before leaving on a trip.
> When I got home it had found all my files but on a hard drive that I
> think was the one that was messed up in grub.
>
> I moved all the files over to where they should be but, Im not sure why
> there were posted there in the first place.
>
> See, I have two drives: at some point in time when I reinstalled ubuntu
> or when I reinstalled the drives after working on my computer I switched
> the location of the drives. I guess that was enough to cause problems
> over time.
>
> Now though the drives are in the correct order physically again, my
> files apparently went to the other location.
>
> I dont understand all of this but for the next few days what Im going to
> do is save it in my chosen location and then check it immediately.
>
> Wade
>

Wade, did you at any time copy one hard drive to the other. There are
several instructions on the net people use when upgrading hard drives
that have them using dd or some other drive cloning tool when they are
upgrading or changing drives with Linux. Unfortunately, those
instructions are often a little out of date with Ubuntu and don't take
into account Ubuntu's reliance on each filesystem having a unique UUID.
Getting duplicate UUID's can cause all kinds of weirdness.

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Old 02-19-2009, 11:44 PM
Rashkae
 
Default All new docs in the last five days are gone!

NoOp wrote:
> On 02/18/2009 08:00 PM, Rashkae wrote:
>
>> If the Hard drive hasn't already declared itself dead, then you should
>> use badblocks to scan the surface.
>
> Hmmm... I've never tried badblocks, so I checked 'man badblocks':
>
> Important note: If the output of badblocks is going to be fed to the
> e2fsck or mke2fs programs, it is important that the block size is prop�
> erly specified, since the block numbers which are generated are very
> dependent on the block size in use by the filesystem. For this reason,
> it is strongly recommended that users not run badblocks directly, but
> rather use the -c option of the e2fsck and mke2fs programs.
>
> seems to have more 'Warnings':
> WARNING
> Never use the -w option on a device containing an existing file system.
> This option erases data! If you want to do write-mode testing on an
> existing file system, use the -n option instead. It is slower, but it
> will preserve your data.
>
> Is there a 'Dummys' guide to using badblocks so as to not hose a drive
> in the process?
>
>

man badblocks was it

The -w, -f and -X -n options are the only way to use badblocks that will
hose a filesystem, so don't.

The astute reader will note that I suggested the OP do a non-destructive
read-write test, which is the -n option that I just said don't use
-n tries not to hose your filesystem, but since it does involve writing
directly to the disk, there is some risk. If the hard drive really is
bad, anything can happen.. I also wouldn't want a hard drive I was
treating this way to be interrupted by something as mundane as a power
failure. Backups are a must before attempting this kind of low level
operation.


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Old 02-19-2009, 11:46 PM
Wade Smart
 
Default All new docs in the last five days are gone!

Rashkae wrote:
> Wade Smart wrote:
>
>> 20090219 1823 GMT-5
>>
>> I had posted here recently about a grub problem. After getting that done
>> -- like hour later - was the first day this happened. I started a scan
>> of all three of my hard drives this morning before leaving on a trip.
>> When I got home it had found all my files but on a hard drive that I
>> think was the one that was messed up in grub.
>>
>> I moved all the files over to where they should be but, Im not sure why
>> there were posted there in the first place.
>>
>> See, I have two drives: at some point in time when I reinstalled ubuntu
>> or when I reinstalled the drives after working on my computer I switched
>> the location of the drives. I guess that was enough to cause problems
>> over time.
>>
>> Now though the drives are in the correct order physically again, my
>> files apparently went to the other location.
>>
>> I dont understand all of this but for the next few days what Im going to
>> do is save it in my chosen location and then check it immediately.
>>
>> Wade
>>
>
> Wade, did you at any time copy one hard drive to the other. There are
> several instructions on the net people use when upgrading hard drives
> that have them using dd or some other drive cloning tool when they are
> upgrading or changing drives with Linux. Unfortunately, those
> instructions are often a little out of date with Ubuntu and don't take
> into account Ubuntu's reliance on each filesystem having a unique UUID.
> Getting duplicate UUID's can cause all kinds of weirdness.
>

20090219 1843 GMT-5

No. Though I have backed up data by copying it over at one time.
I had read about those hd copy software but - I just wonder about them
sometimes

Wade

--
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Linux since June 2005

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Old 02-19-2009, 11:53 PM
NoOp
 
Default All new docs in the last five days are gone!

On 02/19/2009 04:44 PM, Rashkae wrote:
> NoOp wrote:
>> On 02/18/2009 08:00 PM, Rashkae wrote:
>>
>>> If the Hard drive hasn't already declared itself dead, then you should
>>> use badblocks to scan the surface.
>>
>> Hmmm... I've never tried badblocks, so I checked 'man badblocks':
>>
>> Important note: If the output of badblocks is going to be fed to the
>> e2fsck or mke2fs programs, it is important that the block size is prop‐
>> erly specified, since the block numbers which are generated are very
>> dependent on the block size in use by the filesystem. For this reason,
>> it is strongly recommended that users not run badblocks directly, but
>> rather use the -c option of the e2fsck and mke2fs programs.
>>
>> seems to have more 'Warnings':
>> WARNING
>> Never use the -w option on a device containing an existing file system.
>> This option erases data! If you want to do write-mode testing on an
>> existing file system, use the -n option instead. It is slower, but it
>> will preserve your data.
>>
>> Is there a 'Dummys' guide to using badblocks so as to not hose a drive
>> in the process?
>>
>>
>
> man badblocks was it
>
> The -w, -f and -X -n options are the only way to use badblocks that will
> hose a filesystem, so don't.
>
> The astute reader will note that I suggested the OP do a non-destructive
> read-write test, which is the -n option that I just said don't use
> -n tries not to hose your filesystem, but since it does involve writing
> directly to the disk, there is some risk. If the hard drive really is
> bad, anything can happen.. I also wouldn't want a hard drive I was
> treating this way to be interrupted by something as mundane as a power
> failure. Backups are a must before attempting this kind of low level
> operation.
>
>
>

Perhaps 'sudo e2fsck -cc /dev/<device>' would be easier/better?

man e2fsck:
-c This option causes e2fsck to use badblocks(8) program to do a
read-only scan of the device in order to find any bad blocks.
If any bad blocks are found, they are added to the bad block
inode to prevent them from being allocated to a file or direc‐
tory. If this option is specified twice, then the bad block
scan will be done using a non-destructive read-write test.




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Old 02-20-2009, 12:01 AM
Rashkae
 
Default All new docs in the last five days are gone!

NoOp wrote:
> On 02/19/2009 04:44 PM, Rashkae wrote:
>> NoOp wrote:
>>> On 02/18/2009 08:00 PM, Rashkae wrote:
>>>
>>>> If the Hard drive hasn't already declared itself dead, then you should
>>>> use badblocks to scan the surface.
>>> Hmmm... I've never tried badblocks, so I checked 'man badblocks':
>>>
>>> Important note: If the output of badblocks is going to be fed to the
>>> e2fsck or mke2fs programs, it is important that the block size is prop�
>>> erly specified, since the block numbers which are generated are very
>>> dependent on the block size in use by the filesystem. For this reason,
>>> it is strongly recommended that users not run badblocks directly, but
>>> rather use the -c option of the e2fsck and mke2fs programs.
>>>
>>> seems to have more 'Warnings':
>>> WARNING
>>> Never use the -w option on a device containing an existing file system.
>>> This option erases data! If you want to do write-mode testing on an
>>> existing file system, use the -n option instead. It is slower, but it
>>> will preserve your data.
>>>
>>> Is there a 'Dummys' guide to using badblocks so as to not hose a drive
>>> in the process?
>>>
>>>
>> man badblocks was it
>>
>> The -w, -f and -X -n options are the only way to use badblocks that will
>> hose a filesystem, so don't.
>>
>> The astute reader will note that I suggested the OP do a non-destructive
>> read-write test, which is the -n option that I just said don't use
>> -n tries not to hose your filesystem, but since it does involve writing
>> directly to the disk, there is some risk. If the hard drive really is
>> bad, anything can happen.. I also wouldn't want a hard drive I was
>> treating this way to be interrupted by something as mundane as a power
>> failure. Backups are a must before attempting this kind of low level
>> operation.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Perhaps 'sudo e2fsck -cc /dev/<device>' would be easier/better?
>
> man e2fsck:
> -c This option causes e2fsck to use badblocks(8) program to do a
> read-only scan of the device in order to find any bad blocks.
> If any bad blocks are found, they are added to the bad block
> inode to prevent them from being allocated to a file or direc�
> tory. If this option is specified twice, then the bad block
> scan will be done using a non-destructive read-write test.
>

Nae. If a modern hard drive starts getting bad blocks that are visible
to the OS (ie, it can't remap the clusters itself transparently), the
bin is the correct remedy, not trying to map the filesystem around it.

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