FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor

Go Back   Linux Archive > Ubuntu > Ubuntu User

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 02-20-2009, 03:54 PM
Thomas Wolf
 
Default Help Ubuntu 8.10 X server has started crashing 1-2 per day

Bart,

On 02/20/2009 10:35 AM, Bart Silverstrim wrote:
> Take a book...just about any book...and number the paragraphs 1, 2, 3, 4,...
>
> Then read it. Start at paragraph 2, then jump to 1, then to 4, then 3,
> then 6, then 5.
>
> See how long it takes for you to either give up reading it or toss it aside.
>
> Or, try reading chapter 4, then find references in that chapter into
> context by hunting through chapters one through three. Keep jumping back
> and forth until you piece it together.
>
> Messages in email aren't that long, but when you keep having to sift
> through a lot of them over time that's what it amounts to. Unless you're
> part of the brain-fart generation where every mental hiccup is deemed
> worth of broadcasting to "ur frendz w txts" or you are unaccustomed to
> reading things longer than three paragraphs at a time, it's far easier
> to scan information chronologically and in context for reference (and
> CLARITY of what you're referring to!) than tacking an extra two pages of
> "just in case you want to search crap to figure out what the #@$ we're
> talking about"...that's what threading your sent items and/or
> trash/deleted items is for.
>

I'm not sure what the "brain-fart" generation is. I am likely part of
the "old-fart" generation, though :-)

In any case, I understand that reading a book chronologically is easier
than alternatives. But an e-mail thread is nothing like reading a book
- except for the person jumping into the middle of it, trying to catch
up on what has transpired so far. So, does the authors of a
contribution to the thread cater to the person new to the thread who,
for whatever reason, doesn't have a mail client capable of showing the
threaded messages in chronological order, or does he cater to the people
who are familiar with the topic already? For the latter, placing the
new content at the beginning is more convenient than having to scroll
through the "reference" material first. Ideally, a contributor to a
thread wouldn't have to quote previous mails at all and rely entirely on
people's mail clients to keep previous contributions to the thread. But
for now, individual mails from a thread often end up in the trash before
the thread has run its course - so there's still a need to include
reference material as a quote.

Do you agree that both points of view have merit? I suspect we won't
come to an agreement on this subject. But thanks for the discussion.

Tom



--
ubuntu-users mailing list
ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
 
Old 02-20-2009, 04:23 PM
Ray Parrish
 
Default Help Ubuntu 8.10 X server has started crashing 1-2 per day

Thomas Wolf wrote:
> Thanks a bunch Ray.
>
> Before I sent the reply to Lucio and the group, I edited Thunderbird
> via Edit->Preferences->Composition Tab->Send Options... and put
> "ubuntu.com" into the "Plain Text Domains", which, according to the
> description, was supposed to accomplish the same thing - have all emails
> going to that domain be sent in plain text. But judging by Lucio's
> response about my stylish grey background :-), that is not working :-(
> Now I'm trying your suggestion. Hope this arrives as plain text.
>
> As an aside, I've been a UNIX user since about 1985 (I emphasize "user"
> - vs. hacker). I never have understood why some folks feel so strongly
> about putting the quote before the reply. An e-mail quote is not like a
> literary quote. It's there to provide a contextual background - in case
> it's needed by the reader. As such, it's of secondary importance to the
> new content and should, therefore, be placed second.
>
> Thanks again Ray for this preferences tidbit - been using (here's that
> term "user" again :-) Thunderbird forever and didn't know that this existed.
> tom
>
Hello again,

Well, your Thunderbird is different than mine, as there is no "Send" tab
in Composition from Preferences in my version. I see you have Lightning
installed with your's, which is the only thing I could find different
about our versions. Maybe there is as setting somewhere in about:Config.
Yes, I do find a setting in about:config for mailnews.plaintext_domains,
which takes a string value, so it doesn't enable the setting for the
Send tab, I have to enter the domain values in about:config all on the
one line.

Ahhh... I just found out I can add entries to the about:config display,
so I could duplicate the setting to add more domain names on another
line. Have a good day.

Later, Ray Parrish

--
Human reviewed index of links about the computer
http://www.rayslinks.com
Poetry from the mind of a Schizophrenic
http://www.writingsoftheschizophrenic.com/


--
ubuntu-users mailing list
ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
 
Old 02-20-2009, 07:22 PM
Derek Broughton
 
Default Help Ubuntu 8.10 X server has started crashing 1-2 per day

Thomas Wolf wrote:

> In any case, I understand that reading a book chronologically is easier
> than alternatives. But an e-mail thread is nothing like reading a book
> - except for the person jumping into the middle of it, trying to catch
> up on what has transpired so far.

Huh? What about those of us who read a few hundred emails a day? Do you
really expect me to remember context?

> So, does the authors of a
> contribution to the thread cater to the person new to the thread who,
> for whatever reason, doesn't have a mail client capable of showing the
> threaded messages in chronological order, or does he cater to the people
> who are familiar with the topic already?

Wow! You _read_ the whole thread every time? I have a capable mail client,
thanks, and I don't even let it show me the whole thread. I can jump back
to a complete message if I want, by clicking on the appropriate header, but
I want enough context in a reply to make it obvious what someone responds
to.

> For the latter, placing the
> new content at the beginning is more convenient than having to scroll
> through the "reference" material first.

You miss the point as most top-posters do. You should NEVER have to scroll
through the reference material. Top-posters almost never trim at all.
Bottom-posters who don't just don't get read. Quoting should always be in
context - and if you don't quote at all, I'm not likely to read what you
wrote.

> Do you agree that both points of view have merit?

Nope.



--
ubuntu-users mailing list
ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
 
Old 02-20-2009, 08:00 PM
Thomas Wolf
 
Default Help Ubuntu 8.10 X server has started crashing 1-2 per day

On 02/20/2009 11:22 AM, Bart Silverstrim wrote:
> Lucio M Nicolosi wrote:
>
>> Charlie Kravetz wrote:
>>
>>> The problem is not importance so much as readablilty. If I open a
>>> magazine, and the first line of an article is "go to the next page
>>> first", I throw the magazine away.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Ok guys, rules and etiquette properly addressed, but then his Gnome
>> seems to have gone berserk. Any ideas?
>>
>
> Corrupted preference? Does it happen with a newly created user, or if a
> preference directory or two gets temporarily renamed by another username
> with admin rights, then log back in as his "normal" user?
>
>
>
Today it hasn't happened once.

It started after the installation of Ubuntu 8.10 in January. And it
seems to be perfectly random - last time it happened after I left my
desktop unused for a couple minutes and then, after re-awakening it (by
moving mouse), the first thing I did is to switch to another virtual
desktop - BAM. Before that, It happened as I was trying to switch apps
with alt-tab. So I have no way of reproducing the problem. Therefore,
I can't really tell if it would happen with a newly created user.

One possible datapoint: It has never happened to me at home - where I
don't have the laptop connected to the laptop (and its second monitor
and keyboard). In the bug I originally referred to (or maybe it was in
the bug I found in the Fedora support site), the person had the same
crash happening when he used a KVM switch - so perhaps that's the clue.
If that's it, then this must be a regression bug as this never happened
on 8.04.

I may just wait for some kind developer to look into the bug:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/290252
Someone kindly explained to me that the "Triaged" status is actually a
good thing - it's been verified to be a genuine bug which has enough
data to work on.

One last question: can the latest Xorg server code (1.6?) be installed
on 8.10? If so, where can I get the packages? Because I remember that
in the Fedora support someone eventually found the problem to be there
and fixed it in 1.6.

thnx,
tom


tom


--
ubuntu-users mailing list
ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
 
Old 02-20-2009, 09:10 PM
Thomas Wolf
 
Default Help Ubuntu 8.10 X server has started crashing 1-2 per day

Hi Derek,
On 02/20/2009 03:22 PM, Derek Broughton wrote:
>
> Wow! You _read_ the whole thread every time? I have a capable mail client,
> thanks, and I don't even let it show me the whole thread. I can jump back
> to a complete message if I want, by clicking on the appropriate header, but
> I want enough context in a reply to make it obvious what someone responds
> to.
>
...
> You miss the point as most top-posters do. You should NEVER have to scroll
> through the reference material. Top-posters almost never trim at all.
> Bottom-posters who don't just don't get read. Quoting should always be in
> context - and if you don't quote at all, I'm not likely to read what you
> wrote.
>
I just saw Charlie's comment about this wasting alot of bandwidth. Just
a quick response to your friendly post:

What makes you think I read the whole thread every time? Anyway, I now
understand your point about wanting "just enough" context so that you
can effectively get through a few hundred emails per day. Fine.
However, your reasons don't really argue against top-posting. It seems
to boil down to you thinking that top-posters leave more crap at the end
of their messages than bottom-posters leave at the top of their
messages. I don't know if that's a fact or not, but you're welcome to
your opinion.

I will, of course, observe the local etiquette when posting. There's
nothing worse than having a thread where half the people top-post and
half bottom-post.

Best regards,
Tom





--
ubuntu-users mailing list
ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
 
Old 02-23-2009, 01:57 PM
Ray Leventhal
 
Default Help Ubuntu 8.10 X server has started crashing 1-2 per day

Thomas Wolf wrote:
> Hi Derek,
> On 02/20/2009 03:22 PM, Derek Broughton wrote:
<big snip>
>
> I will, of course, observe the local etiquette when posting. There's
> nothing worse than having a thread where half the people top-post and
> half bottom-post.
>
> Best regards,
> Tom
>
Without offense intended to anyone, and agreeing that the etiquette for
this list calls for trimming/snipping and bottom posting (which I
personally endorse 100% for mailing lists) my personal two cents can be
summed up in the sig file I used to use on another list:

================================================== ===================
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?




--
ubuntu-users mailing list
ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
 
Old 02-26-2009, 12:48 PM
Chris Jones
 
Default Help Ubuntu 8.10 X server has started crashing 1-2 per day

> Hi,

> So, does the authors of a
> contribution to the thread cater to the person new to the thread who,
> for whatever reason, doesn't have a mail client capable of showing the
> threaded messages in chronological order, or does he cater to the
> people
> who are familiar with the topic already? For the latter, placing the
> new content at the beginning is more convenient than having to scroll
> through the "reference" material first.

This is purely a matter of opinion, and one I like others do not agree
with. Even if I am following a thread from the beginning, I find it
much easier to read replies if the author,

a) Snips out all but the parts of the post they are actually replying.
As I have above for instance.

b) Post their response to the specific point after that point, again
as I am doing here.

> Ideally, a contributor to a
> thread wouldn't have to quote previous mails at all and rely
> entirely on
> people's mail clients to keep previous contributions to the thread.

even better to keep each message self contained, with point and
coutner point both included, and nothing else...
>

> Do you agree that both points of view have merit? I suspect we won't
> come to an agreement on this subject. But thanks for the discussion.

I agree you are perfectly entitled to your point of view, but no,
frankly speaking I don't see any advantages to top posting in a
mailing list environment like this (regular one to one emails are a
different thing). All the list I am signed up to, and it is many,
agree and prefer (some more vocally than others) snipped bottom posting.

Chris
>

--
ubuntu-users mailing list
ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 01:14 PM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org