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Old 01-16-2009, 05:49 AM
Thufir
 
Default manual tomcat install versus apt

I installed tomcat per fine following:

http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/linux/installing-tomcat-6-on-ubuntu/

However, I wanted to use Netbeans to automagically run web app's, so
filled in the server info as per:

thufir@arrakis:~$
thufir@arrakis:~$ sudo /etc/init.d/tomcat start
Using CATALINA_BASE: /usr/local/tomcat
Using CATALINA_HOME: /usr/local/tomcat
Using CATALINA_TMPDIR: /usr/local/tomcat/temp
Using JRE_HOME: /usr/lib/jvm/java-6-sun
thufir@arrakis:~$

Which gave Netbeans errors until ran chown recursively on usr/local/
tomcat (and then changed back to root:root later on). I think that I
tried something similar when I tried installing from apt and it didn't
work.

why don't the apt-get commands at:

https://help.ubuntu.com/8.10/serverguide/C/tomcat.html

script the install process which the howtogeek site lays out? Is there a
security concern which the help.ubuntu.com directions are trying to
address?

When I followed the help.ubuntu.com directions I got hung up on the path
for CATALINA_HOME and couldn't get past a Netbeans error that:

<CATALINA_HOME>/conf/server.xml is corrupt.

which I was able to work around from the howtogeek directions by
temporarily changing the ownership of /usr/local/tomcat to non-root
(probably a bad idea, I changed it back to root:root).

Maybe it's more of a Netbeans prob, not sure.


-Thufir


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Old 01-18-2009, 11:59 PM
John DeCarlo
 
Default manual tomcat install versus apt

On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 1:49 AM, Thufir <hawat.thufir@gmail.com> wrote:



*why don't the apt-get commands at:



https://help.ubuntu.com/8.10/serverguide/C/tomcat.html



script the install process which the howtogeek site lays out? *Is there a

security concern which the help.ubuntu.com directions are trying to

address?



I ran into this issue years ago.* I could never get a useful answer and gave up.* Besides, you get access to a newer version if you install by hand.

--
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http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=34091576500&ref=mf

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Old 01-20-2009, 01:34 AM
Thufir
 
Default manual tomcat install versus apt

On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:59:32 -0500, John DeCarlo wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 1:49 AM, Thufir <hawat.thufir@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> why don't the apt-get commands at:
>>
>> https://help.ubuntu.com/8.10/serverguide/C/tomcat.html
>>
>> script the install process which the howtogeek site lays out? Is there
>> a security concern which the help.ubuntu.com directions are trying to
>> address?
>>
>>
>
> I ran into this issue years ago. I could never get a useful answer and
> gave up. Besides, you get access to a newer version if you install by
> hand.


More than a little frustrating, but thanks for the response. If I set
the headers correctly, followups set to gman.linux.ubuntu.devel, out of
curiosity.


-Thufir


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Old 01-20-2009, 01:34 AM
Thufir
 
Default manual tomcat install versus apt

On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:59:32 -0500, John DeCarlo wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 1:49 AM, Thufir <hawat.thufir@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> why don't the apt-get commands at:
>>
>> https://help.ubuntu.com/8.10/serverguide/C/tomcat.html
>>
>> script the install process which the howtogeek site lays out? Is there
>> a security concern which the help.ubuntu.com directions are trying to
>> address?
>>
>>
>
> I ran into this issue years ago. I could never get a useful answer and
> gave up. Besides, you get access to a newer version if you install by
> hand.


More than a little frustrating, but thanks for the response. If I set
the headers correctly, followups set to gman.linux.ubuntu.devel, out of
curiosity.


-Thufir


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Old 01-20-2009, 07:04 PM
Thierry Carrez
 
Default manual tomcat install versus apt

Thufir wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:59:32 -0500, John DeCarlo wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 1:49 AM, Thufir <hawat.thufir@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> why don't the apt-get commands at:
>>> https://help.ubuntu.com/8.10/serverguide/C/tomcat.html
>>> script the install process which the howtogeek site lays out? Is there
>>> a security concern which the help.ubuntu.com directions are trying to
>>> address?
>>>
>> I ran into this issue years ago. I could never get a useful answer and
>> gave up. Besides, you get access to a newer version if you install by
>> hand.

If the howto you refer to is [1] then it was written even before the
Tomcat 6 packages were added to Ubuntu. It details how to download a
Tomcat binary from the Apache website and manually deploy it under Ubuntu.

[1] http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/linux/installing-tomcat-6-on-ubuntu/

The instructions in the server guide [2] are about installing the
tomcat6 package from the Ubuntu repositories. You then benefit from the
bugfixes and updates that we provide to our repositories contents. It's
also so much simpler to just run "sudo apt-get install tomcat6".

[2] https://help.ubuntu.com/8.10/serverguide/C/tomcat.html

The security concern would be that if your manual install is affected by
a vulnerability (which is the case for the 6.0.14 recommended in your
howto) you have to learn about it and update the software manually. By
using the official Ubuntu packages you get the security fixes in the
regular update process.

Regards,

--
Thierry Carrez
Ubuntu server team || Canonical Ltd.

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Old 01-22-2009, 06:50 AM
Thufir
 
Default manual tomcat install versus apt

On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 21:04:37 +0100, Thierry Carrez wrote:

> Thufir wrote:
>> On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:59:32 -0500, John DeCarlo wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 1:49 AM, Thufir <hawat.thufir@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> why don't the apt-get commands at:
>>>> https://help.ubuntu.com/8.10/serverguide/C/tomcat.html script the
>>>> install process which the howtogeek site lays out? Is there a
>>>> security concern which the help.ubuntu.com directions are trying to
>>>> address?
>>>>
>>> I ran into this issue years ago. I could never get a useful answer
>>> and gave up. Besides, you get access to a newer version if you
>>> install by hand.
>
> If the howto you refer to is [1] then it was written even before the
> Tomcat 6 packages were added to Ubuntu. It details how to download a
> Tomcat binary from the Apache website and manually deploy it under
> Ubuntu.
>
> [1] http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/linux/installing-tomcat-6-on-ubuntu/
>
> The instructions in the server guide [2] are about installing the
> tomcat6 package from the Ubuntu repositories. You then benefit from the
> bugfixes and updates that we provide to our repositories contents. It's
> also so much simpler to just run "sudo apt-get install tomcat6".
>
> [2] https://help.ubuntu.com/8.10/serverguide/C/tomcat.html

Exactly, which is why myself and others are asking why apt-get installs
tomcat in a way which differs from a manual install.

> The security concern would be that if your manual install is affected by
> a vulnerability (which is the case for the 6.0.14 recommended in your
> howto) you have to learn about it and update the software manually. By
> using the official Ubuntu packages you get the security fixes in the
> regular update process.

What I'm asking about is why apt installs tomcat in a way which differs
from manually installing it. Is there some security concern prompting
the non-standard install?

The specific functionality I require is inputting CATALINA_HOME and so
forth into Netbeans for the Tomcat plug-in, which only works from the
manual install. Why? Dunno, because to troubleshoot Tomcat step #1 is
to manually install Tomcat.

Why not replicate a manual install and have apt-get just do a standard
manual install? There must be some rationale for the customization. I'm
not alone in not having found a useful answer, others have also given up
and just manually installed Tomcat.


-Thufir


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Old 01-24-2009, 01:57 PM
Thufir
 
Default manual tomcat install versus apt

On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 21:04:37 +0100, Thierry Carrez wrote:

> Thufir wrote:
>> On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:59:32 -0500, John DeCarlo wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 1:49 AM, Thufir <hawat.thufir@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> why don't the apt-get commands at:
>>>> https://help.ubuntu.com/8.10/serverguide/C/tomcat.html script the
>>>> install process which the howtogeek site lays out? Is there a
>>>> security concern which the help.ubuntu.com directions are trying to
>>>> address?
>>>>
>>> I ran into this issue years ago. I could never get a useful answer
>>> and gave up. Besides, you get access to a newer version if you
>>> install by hand.

One of the points I'm trying to get across is that it's not just me.

> If the howto you refer to is [1] then it was written even before the
> Tomcat 6 packages were added to Ubuntu. It details how to download a
> Tomcat binary from the Apache website and manually deploy it under
> Ubuntu.
>
> [1] http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/linux/installing-tomcat-6-on-ubuntu/

Yes, this is the how-to I followed. However, let's ask: why is there
even such a how-to? why wouldn't it just advise to use apt-get?

> The instructions in the server guide [2] are about installing the
> tomcat6 package from the Ubuntu repositories. You then benefit from the
> bugfixes and updates that we provide to our repositories contents. It's
> also so much simpler to just run "sudo apt-get install tomcat6".
>
> [2] https://help.ubuntu.com/8.10/serverguide/C/tomcat.html
>
> The security concern would be that if your manual install is affected by
> a vulnerability (which is the case for the 6.0.14 recommended in your
> howto) you have to learn about it and update the software manually. By
> using the official Ubuntu packages you get the security fixes in the
> regular update process.


Ah, by security concerns, that's not what I meant. Sure, I'd love to use
apt-get to install tomcat, as would others. However, the apt-get method
installs tomcat strangely, and because of this strangeness myself, and
others, opt to instead install it manually.

Again, manually installing Tomcat works fine, but using apt-get causes
strangeness. For that reason, I, and others, as evidenced by the mere
existence of how-to's on the topic, opt not to use apt-get.

Which brings us back to: what is it that's odd about the apt-get
install? why doesn't it just do the bog standard manual install, but
scripted?



thanks,

Thufir



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Old 02-03-2009, 11:55 AM
Thierry Carrez
 
Default manual tomcat install versus apt

Thufir wrote:
>> If the howto you refer to is [1] then it was written even before the
>> Tomcat 6 packages were added to Ubuntu. It details how to download a
>> Tomcat binary from the Apache website and manually deploy it under
>> Ubuntu.
>>
>> [1] http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/linux/installing-tomcat-6-on-ubuntu/
>
> Yes, this is the how-to I followed. However, let's ask: why is there
> even such a how-to? why wouldn't it just advise to use apt-get?

As I said, this howto was written before the Tomcat 6 packages were even
available. So the "manual install" was the only method there was. This
is the main reason why these howtos exist. It doesn't advise to install
from the repository because it was never updated.

> Which brings us back to: what is it that's odd about the apt-get
> install? why doesn't it just do the bog standard manual install, but
> scripted?

Ubuntu packages are rebuilt from the sources, they can't just download
upstream binaries and unpack them. We also provide more system
integration (for example we don't run Tomcat as root, which is what your
howto does). Furthermore, Ubuntu packages try to stick as much as they
can to FHS guidelines. Unpacking everything in a single directory is not
the way we install applications. We try to put configuration in /etc,
logs in /var/log, etc. That makes the resulting package more
Ubuntu-integrated, but, I agree, a little more confusing for long-time
Tomcat users.

--
Thierry Carrez
Ubuntu server team

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